Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Already covered.

You got that right !

Forced perspective is a fact and many examples have already been shown.

www.examiner.com...

www.examiner.com...

no further PROOF has been presented from Meier or anyone defending this story that shows what we are seeing are NOT photos that are forced perspective.

biased money making documentary's don't count.

extraordinary claims require extraordinary PROOF. the burden lies upon the one making the claim to prove it ...not the opposite.



Lock all the Meier threads except one and move it to the Grey area where it belongs.




















[edit on 22-4-2009 by easynow]

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by Soloist

Because it IS a hoax.

In your opinion.

Wrong. It is a FACT that the dino pic is from a book, oops Billy must have thought no one would look that one up while they were scouring all of Switzerland for his homemade raygun and gold foil covered shirt.

Many other credible people hold a contrary opinion.

Then that opinion is based solely on ignorance given all the "evidence" we have on this "case". We are supposed to be denying ignorance here, not embracing it. I have many years of professional experience in working in model shops and movie studios and have worked on several Hollywood flicks, does that not make me credible? Do you honestly think someone in my profession can not pick out forced perspective and fake junky, falling apart "space ships"?

I don't mind giving people the benefit of the doubt, but how many times?

1) Fake dino pics
2) Fake TV pics
3) Fake raygun
4) Fake spacesuit
5) Fake falling apart "wedding cake ship"
6) Fake tree and car models
7) Fake prophet


Just taking those alone, let's see :

1+2+3+4+5+6+7 = HOAX!

reply to post by easynow


LOL, that is not a forced perspective. That is a badly photoshopped cut-out of Meier's head and Wedding cake UFO onto the IIG image plundering Meier's trashcans

Nobody has yet been able to show that Meier's photos use a forced perspective. I already examined one in the deleted thread and described the significant differences.

Until that is not forthcoming, no matter how many times you say it, it won't make it true.

Show don't tell.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

1) Fake dino pics - Unfalsifiable, but perhaps fake. Something dodgy there.
2) Fake TV pics - What TV pics?
3) Fake raygun - In your opinion
4) Fake spacesuit - In your opinion
5) Fake falling apart "wedding cake ship" - In your opinion
6) Fake tree and car models - In your opinion
7) Fake prophet - In your opinion

reply to post by Soloist


Lets take one point at a time and keep things coherent.

The Dino pics. I responded to that on the last page. First, can we directly link them to Meier - did he definitely take them and second, did he definitely present them as real evidence of his claimed trip? Can this be proven?

I think this is important in view of some claims that fake Meier photos were introduced in order to "contaminate" the evidence and discredit Meier. If so, they have succeeded remarkably! So can you answer my questions and the others on the last page regarding the Dino and other pics you are highlighting?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Malcram]

reply to post by Indigo_Child

Nobody has yet been able to show that Meier's photos use a forced perspective

see this is the problem

it is not up to us to prove it's forced perspective

it's up to the advocates to PROVE that it is not !

so far ...you or anyone else hasn't proved it so this case will remain a HOAX until you do

You're right!! Your absolutly right how could i have been so stupid.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/26c363574bf6.jpg[/atsimg]

Just look at it. What a great piece of ET tech. Hmmmmm. I wonder what this little protrusion is. Could it be some sort of alien communications device? Perhaps it is some sort of antigrav projector unit..

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4cc0a3d964a0.jpg[/atsimg]

Maybe its a trash can lid. But where would billy get such amazing technologically advanced trashcan lids from? He must have some source.

Lets ask him....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2aa4d1060a9e.jpg[/atsimg]

Hey where did you get that lid from?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by DaMod]

reply to post by easynow


Logical Fallacy: you cannot prove a negative

reply to post by DaMod


The bottom image is photoshopped, you do know that right?

reply to post by easynow


Not so, it doesn't work that way.

Until you prove that it is definitely forced perspective - or other methods of hoaxing - then your definite claim, that is IS forced perspective, and therefore a hoax, is illegitimate - it is a belief touted as "fact".

Let me post a little from an article that can be found by clicking the links in my signature that is relevant here:

"Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything.. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis...he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.

Critics who assert negative claims...often act as though they have no burden of proof placed on them at all, though such a stance would be appropriate only for the agnostic or true skeptic. A result of this is that many critics seem to feel it is only necessary to present a case for their counter-claims based upon plausibility rather than empirical evidence... Showing evidence is unconvincing is not grounds for completely dismissing it. If a critic asserts that the result was due to artifact X, that critic then has the burden of proof to demonstrate that artifact X can and probably did produce such results under such circumstances....Alas, most critics seem happy to sit in their armchairs producing post hoc counter-explanations. Whichever side ends up with the true story, science best progresses through laboratory investigations."


[edit on 22-4-2009 by Malcram]

These have been proved to be faked

reply to post by Aspie


The proof of the claim that they have been faked is more relevant than the pictures.

Where is the proof

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Are the trash can lids photoshopped??? i don't think they are sorry.

Originally posted by Malcram

The Dino pics. I responded to that on the last page. First, can we directly link them to Meier - did he definitely take them and second, did he definitely present them as real evidence of his claimed trip? Can this be proven?

Oh, oh, can I play the same game?

Can we directly link anything to Meier? I mean have any of you people defending him actually go to his place and see his evidence first hand? Or are you blindly accepting "evidence"? Maybe he didn't take any pictures, eh? Maybe those of him are a look a like made by the government (those evil Swiss!) to discredit him???

Can anything he's ever said or done actually be proven?

You see this is the same round-a-bout conversation that goes hand in hand with Meier supporters, and sadly will most likely always be.

reply to post by Soloist


I take it that is a 'No" then, to my question.

I think we can reasonably link Meier to a good deal of his evidence. My question is can the same be done with these particular photographs? it's not an unreasonable question.

If you know someone claims to have taken photographs of UFO etc, and that people were also intent of discrediting him and you heard that they had even introduced fake evidence passing it off as the work of this person, would you not think it important to try to distinguish between what was actually his evidence and possibly fake evidence introduced to discredit him?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by Aspie

 

The proof of the claim that they have been faked is more relevant than the pictures.

Where is the proof

Listen to the episode of the Paracast where Horn makes his second appearance. You will get a full explanation there

Damod,

The trash can lid in the third image is photoshopped. In the original the man is holding a normal trash can lid.


reply to post by Soloist


Yes we can link Billy Meier directly to the pictures and videos, because we can see him taking them and the investigation documentary shows him taking the investigators to all the locations where he took his shots, giving them his original film and negatives, as well sound recording and metal samples.

However, there is no link shown that the Dinosaur pics and other pics taken on trips. Do you have any published material where Meier claims ownership of these pics? I am only familiar of one publication, the original Lee Elders one published in 1983 which was personally verified by Meier. Are these pics present in that book?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

However, there is no link shown that the Dinosaur pics and other pics taken on trips. Do you have any published material where Meier claims ownership of these pics?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Oh my, further down that rabbit hole we go. See how you twisted this? First your argument was that there are "differences" in the pictures, now he didn't take them at all? My how quickly things change.

Round and round.

I suppose next we'll here how he didn't have anything to do with the Wedding flop photo's, since the shelf pin fell off and he got busted with the lid (even though he already made up an excuse for that, LOL) nor the laughable model car and tree photo's, etc, etc... until nothing is left.

Nope, absolutely nothing ever happened to poor ol' Bill Meier, ever.

Ever find the picture of that Aliens left arm? Still wondering about that, seems very fishy to me.

Originally posted by EffEcTiVe_UniT
touche indigo touche.

The fact that the mods closed down the thread after derek admitted that he didnt fully investigate the case is obvious.

The fact that the people who believe the meier evidence is true is brutally attacked without a penalty or warning at all from mods.

The fact that meier evidence supporters cannot even go to an offensive side without being called a cultist or personally attacking and labeled abuse.

This is relevant because this would explain to what ATS is doing to discredit and artificially degrading this topic and the strong offensive attacks that we constantly are under attack from. Yet nothing is done.

Why ATS are you stepping aside from all this. You enforce your rules on meier supporters but yet you let us recieve personal attacks...

Wow, did you nail yourself up on that cross all by yourself? This is a discussion forum, you seem to be perceiving those who would appear to be much more knowledgeable about the hoax as attacking you instead of listening and absorbing what they have to say. There's a reason for it, it's not just a witch hunt for poor Bill and his "evidence supporters".

Hoaxes are frowned upon, and should be. You should ask yourself do you really care about ufology, or just not admitting being wrong, even if it's painfully obvious? I don't see how anyone can possibly have both in this instance.


Read through this whole thread, it's long, but notice the "Meier evidence supporters" reactions to the truth about this hoax, every time they hit a wall they add a twist and expect more and more until it gets to an impossible burden of proof, when in reality, it would seem, they don't care about the truth, only being right.