Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Billy mier is fraud! Why horn believe in billy mier crap? same reason muslim believe in allah. Muslims lie to non musilms..it must be done that way to protect allah concept.

i really think there is going to be nuclear war soon.

Ok... I have a couple of questions that popped up while i was watching the Billy Meier's documentry the other day.

In the video Billy is seen flashing the ray gun like in the B-grade movies posing in various poses like a real life James Bond.
However he is not seen using the ray gun i.e. he does'nt pull the trigger to pulsate the ray gun. Later in the documentary the author says that he shot a ray and managed to drill a hole in a tree.. blah blah.. yaap yap!!
I was wondering so as to why did'nt he demonstrate the powers of the ray gun if he had already taken the privilege to flash it to the mortal beings of the earth!!? Is it just cos he cud not actually make it work... or he did not figure it out on how to fool the people with the fake pulsation of the ray gun.

The faces of the so called alien girls in the pics are kept anonymous except of their names and addresses..
Is it cos he did'nt want to disclose the true identity of the local girls just incase they cud be identified later on in at public places... thus rendering Mr.. Meiers claims to be hoax??

The ray gun seems to have a very futuristic concept, even though the make of the gun seemed to be pretty much pre-historic, I can presume that any toy or may it be gun that was made in those times must definately have been of the same standards as seen in the photographs/video.. instead of the gun being made that shud look real sohphisticated cos of its futuristic nature.. something that looks in the MIB movie (well not excatly the same, but alteast close or even better).

Predictions after the events are statement that mostly that everybody claims after the event happens, however i have never read or seen any major claim of future preditions by Meiers, although he defends that he doesn't want to disclose any event of the future cos some people may use those prophecies for their personal gains. But Sir, dont you think so, if your future predictions are so accurate... you can actually prevent an unforeseen disaster which can claim thousands of life, let some lunatic gain some monetary benefit, wud'nt you become a HERO in real life, and would not have to persuade the world to believe in ur fairytales.
Infact your and ur alien friends objective to save the planet wud also be achieved, if you can restore faith in people about your theories... the world leaders wud listen to you from that incident of you saving the human race by your future prediciton.

Mr Meiers you have very bravely put it into your theories that God does not exist in No religion,
However you have put the word "OM" at ur Farm house embossed on a copper stone.

See image.


Close up.


The word OM is the core of Hindu religion. How come he has made the word OM as a corner stone in his yard if he doesn't believe in God!?

Mr Meiers does not reveal the purpose of his meeting with Jesus Christ... although he does mention that he has met Christ. He ironically puts in in a way saying that he cannot reveal the real motive. Is it cos he just wants to be a witness to all the greatest events and personalities of the world since its inception, but doesn't have any valid reason to validate so as to why he met Jesus with whatever the motive was!?
Come on what wud he say? He did not have anything to say even though he proclaimed to have met Jesus... cos on one hand he is saying that He was not God, neither he was an important person in the Past, and now when he says that he met Jesus.... that means he is getting pawned with his own theories.. (hence... he mutes a mystery clause behind it).

There are a couple of more observations i made, wud want to share it at a later debate.

I am posting this same post at another Billy Meiers thread, hoping for an alternative debate with other members.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by holyindian]

reply to post by holyindian


Hello.

Why are you posting the same comment on multiple Billy Meier threads? It would be best to just pick one rather than posting the same thing in multiple places.

-Derek

I figured alien life would have sort of a miniature version of a Spartan Laser. All we got was the dumb, poorly made, toy.

Originally posted by DaMod
I figured alien life would have sort of a miniature version of a Spartan Laser. All we got was the dumb, poorly made, toy.

That pretty much says it all doesn't it? I put forth that nobody advanced enough to manipulate time and space to their advantage would design such an object. It is like the space brothers had been watching our science fiction movies and decided to give us a ray gun that we would recognize. How come there are no demonstrations of it in action? We can have videos of ships dancing around trees, but we cannot see the blaster in action? Something smells funny. Yes I know special effects were kind of sparse in Billy's day and that probably explains a whole lot.

ok so i read all the posts regarding to the billy meier "fraud". But i still have not seen any facts. Such as the "toy gun". People CLAIM that they can reproduce the toy gun or find it in a sears catalog, or make it from their own materials. But yet....no one shows anything. Are you going to say that you dont have time to make one or to look for a model of this that even comes close to this? No. People uses teh excuse that its not worth their time and so on and so forth. So my challenge is this. Find this gun copy or whatever so we can stop debating this.

Another point to find is the perfect oval searing in the tree that was documented in pictures. It was a perfect oval. I have not found any drill that can even do anything like that such as an oval let alone smooth as glass or so on. How can you debunk this? How can you prove that this tree "burn" was pulled off as a hoax. This cannot possibly be a model tree becase the tree was living the leaves were growing and so on.

Another detail people would like to put it aside is the illedged ET in the gold suit. Could someone just show me or any other people a suit that resembles the suit wearing by the ET. I seen the silver suit but it doesnt even come close to similarities.

I would like to address another one. The picture below...



This picture according to the skeptics is a model ufo and possibly a model tree. If we looked closely on the left side of the ufo. we can see the shadows and a few branches covering the left side of the ufo. If the branches are showing in front of the ufo then how could it be a model playing with the perception. Among the truck or car, the shadow pretty much pins it down closely under the ufo. Unless there is a picture otherwise or a method that was put to the test with examinations from professionals this picture remains undebunked. Remember that this was taken 1981. Someone show me concrete proof and backed up professionals and their testemonies and lets help end this charade. Until then your innocent until proven guilty.

The metal. Has anyone even come up with a method as to how that come into being and willing to test that theory against a professional metalurgist. The explanations i hear is only made by people who doesnt hold a metalurgist title or degree of some sort. Show proof and lets end this debate.

The videos people claim to say that is made by models. If you honestly think that they are models and that you can prove that they are models and reproduce a 3 min segment duplicating this. If you can do this, then you should work for hollywood as steven spielburg needed someone who can do this display in daylight as he was currently working on Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind. I had a friend in hollywood and we brought up steven and thus reminded me to give them a quick call. An hour later after talking my way they did confirm that they did have issues with close encounters and that they did offer a deal to billy meier through Lee Elders. But that was all i could find out.

Regarding the illedged film showing billy holding a model in his hand walking around his park. This was not his model. As you can CLEARLY give MGM a simple call and ask them to look into their records regarding this they will tell you themselves that they have built this model and given it to billy meier to see if they can reproduce any of his videos or photos with any similarities. All tries failed miserably. So currently the videos as of now is not debunked and i dont think it will ever will due to the major technology advances. Unless you can prove this erronous then please enlighten me/us/IIG/etc. and please prove that this case is a hoax for what you think it really is.

I have looked countless hours to see if this case is debunked. I have not found anything as of today. I have found methods and theories, but not a single one was put to the test. So please. Provide evidence

[edit on 18-4-2009 by EffEcTiVe_UniT]

reply to post by EffEcTiVe_UniT

But i still have not seen any facts

here are some facts...have a look

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by EffEcTiVe_UniT


You are right Effective Unit.

This is born out in my thread, "Debunking IIG's investigation of Billy Meier" Review it and all you will see is "skeptics" continue to assert "He is proven to be a hoax, "HAHA billy Meier" but not a single shred of proof provided.

There are 2 major facts in this case:

1) Meier photos and videos till date remain irreproducible
2) Meier's case has been vigorously scientifically analysed in the 5 year long investigation headed by Lee Elders and Wendel Stevens, and has been tested by worlds best peer-group of scientists and experts, including chief scientists at IBM and NASA and they have produced hundreds of pages of vast scientific reports, data to validate his case.

The skeptic continues to ignore these 2 major and hard facts and asserts away, "I can make this with my eyes closed" but still has not actually presented anything. So my advice to you is whenever somebody makes such unsubstantiated claims against Meier, just politely remind of those two major facts and keep reminding them till they capitulate or basically throw a tantrum and leave.

In fact as this is another another Billy Meier thread I will post my summary here just for the objective reader know the real facts.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

This isa repost of a summary from my thread for the consideration of a reasonable and objective reader.

The Smoking Gun

After reviewing this thread and the objections made and examining all the evidence, I think I have enough data to formulate a conclusion and put everything together and form a coherent whole. I was going to start a separate thread to present my conclusion, but I think we already have enough Meier threads running concurrently.

Conclusion: Eduard Billy Meier,also known as the one armed farmer WAS and possibly still is in contact with an ET race known as the Plejarens(Pleidians). The photographs he took of UFO’s were in fact genuine beamships of the Plejarens, which are literally riding on the Earth’s magnetic field.

The Billy Meier case is the smoking-gun of ET/UFO study. The hard evidence which has often been demanded by sceptics for this phenomenon is present in abundance and is consistent with other evidence as we will find in this summary. In this summary I will make available all the evidence in one post and present it in a coherent and consistent manner. The majority of this evidence is from the original investigation team in the 70’s headed by Lee elders and Wendel Stevens.

In this post will be referring to the reports available at steelmark(unless specified otherwise) and the original documentary made on Billy Meier in the 70’s.

I am posting the parts that I will be referring to here:

Part 2:



Part 3:



Part 4:



Part 5:


Part 6:


Part 7:


Part 8:


Metal Sample Evidence

The Plejaren beam ships are made out of a highly advanced metal. A sample of this metal sample was presented to Billy Meier who then presented it to Lee Elders and Wendel Stevens investigation team. They then in turn consulted a team of scientists to investigate the metal.

The following tests were done on the metal:

* Elemental analysis using x-ray diffraction
* Scanning Electron Microscope examination of the specimen
* Spectrographic examination

Results:

The metal was found to be an alloy of silver, iron, copper, silicon and the rare metal Thulium. It showed evidence of micro engineering showing 7 diagonal striations under an electron scanning microscope(The Plejaren claim the 7 striations represent 7 stages of manufacturing the material undergoes before it is used in construction of their spacecraft) Dr Marcel Vogel, IBM’s top scientist also observed that the metal sample had unknown dual properties of being metal and crystal at the same time.

The study can be accessed here at Steelmark for $9:

www.steelmarkonline.com...

The documentary footage of the metal analysis and interpretation:

Watch segment 2:06 of part 4

Also watch the following clip of an interview with Vogel and original lab footage:




Photos and Videos

As well all know that Billy Meier has taken hundreds of photographs and videos with the Plejaren beamships. We also know that these are irreproducible using small models as has been demonstrated in the OP and throughout this thread. The original investigation team submitted the original negatives and film to a panel of the best experts in the world at the time.

The following tests were done on the photographs and video films:

* Microscopic examination of film, transparency or print to very high magnifications, up to 500 diameters.
* Microdensiometric scanning of film or transparencies, using various scanning programs.
* Scanning Electron Microscope examination of the film and film make-up.
* Laserscopic examination of film or transparencies, and preparation of laser holographic plates for computer work.

Excerpts from the scientific reports published in Lee Elders book “Contact from the Pleides” in the early 80’s:

Discussions were held with leaders in the field of research, including: optical science engineers, aeronautical engineers, computer programmers, laser specialists and photographic technicians and latest state-of-the-art equipment was reviewed and evaluated.

SNIP

Basically we started by examining the sample transparency or negative with a laserscope, the same way used to examine black and white negatives with microscopes to determine fakes before computer came along, and we made preliminary judgements about factors. Laser technology makes it possible for a skilled examiner to determine much before he ever goes to the computer. He can set up a grid, 10,000 lines per centimeter veritical and horizontal, and go back and forth scanning the whole picture. With the laserscope we can blow up even further to look at individual grains or color laminations in the film emulsion and make judgements particle by particle. Laser holography is then used to provide a 3-dimensional image from a 2-dimensional picture. And laser projection of the hologram is so fine that a 10th of a centimeter square can be blown up to many feet to view the grains and laminations in graphic 3-D. The finest suspension threads and expert retouching overlaps should stand out graphically. Homogenity of the grains and color layers can be studied carefully for deviations from norm.

SNIP

We still find no evidence of trickery in any of these photographs so enhanced. On the other hand, we find details revealed that tend more to establish the validity of the story told by the witness

Still another method referred to us by Ron Spanbauer of De Pere, Winsonsin was tried in judging the depth of field or distance of objects in the picture from the lens of the camera at the time photographs were made(SNIP) The Meier photographs from Switzerland analysed by this method were found to be consistent with the reported data, and with the photogrammetric and computer data generated

Results

The results showed that the beamships shown in Meiers photographs and videos were genuine. They were not small models but very large objects(up to 20 m) There were no strings or wire supports. They were distant from the camera and suspended very high above ground.

The results also showed that the UFO had an artificial field around it(I stated this myself earlier on) Also that the UFO’s movements in the video of suddenly jumping from one spot to another or disappearing and reappearing suddenly all happened in real time in a fraction of a second. There was no cutting.

The investigators also tried to duplicate Meiers photographs using a small model that was a miniature of one the Plejaren beamships, using a pole and a string. These photographs, most of which looked bad and Wendel in particular was not impress with them, were submitted for testing and the experts had no problem in ascertaining they were small models.

The entire study can be accessed here for free:

Scientific Analysis of Meiers Photographs and Videos

The documentary footage of the actual tests taking place and experts analysing and interpreting them:

Watch segment 4:00, 7:45 of part 3, 0:00, 6:30 of part 4, 6:44 of part 5, 0:00, 6:48 of part 6, 0:00 of part 8

The sound recording evidence

The Plejaren ship’s propulsion self is using a field-generation technology which is able to generate a resonance that matches the earth magnetic field resonance(aka as Schuman resonance). This allows the Pleajaren ship to ride the Earth’s magnetic field. Not only does this allow the craft to float on the earth magnetic field, but at higher resonance it can disappear out of our dimension and enter hyperspace(I.e., jump out of phase) In Semjase’s Wedding Cake beamship this artificial field is generated from the bottom of the aircraft from the patterned light balls in the centre(Hence why most UFO’s have a glow underneath) Billy Meier was allowed to record the sound of the UFO using his cassette recorder and microphone to hear the field. The recording was then submitted to the investigation team which then sent it to be analysed by sound experts using state of the art technology.

The following tests were done on the sound sample:

1. Computer analysis of the sounds
2. Analysis at a state of the art sound engineering studio

Results

The analysis shows that the clip contained many sounds: the sound of a dog barking, the sound of a European police siren but they could not match the basic sound of the ship. The scientist speculated it was a very specific sound for specialised applications.

The analysis found 10 frequencies converge and suddenly become one frequency very quickly which was not possible even if one had 10 synthesisers going off at once. The experts opined that such a sound cannot be duplicated with their equipment.

The most interesting result was that the sound frequencies actually generated a magnetic field of increasing intensity which was within the range of Earth’s magnetic field - Schuman resonance. The expert drew the field by graphing out the sound. It turns out the graphic representation was the same as the pattern of the bottom light on the underside of the Wedding cake beamship and the expert had not even seen the photo.

The scientific report on the analysis of the sound recording can be found at Steelmark.

The documentary footage of the analysis of the sound recording and its interpretation:

Watch segment 1:05 of part 4, 4:40 of part 7

Summary continued in next post.

Smokig Gun: Continued


Testimonial evidence

Hundreds of people in Meiers town have seen the Plejaren beamships in different locations. There is an also ex UN diplomat who was at the same Ashram(Ashoka Ashram) in India Meier was at during his younger years and had seen the beamships. Of course then there is Billy Meier and his children’s testimony. The investigators interviewed some of these witnesses and did a lie detector test on Billy Meier which was analysed by a top lie detector expert. In the recent documentary produced by Michael Horn a NLP expert and consultant to the US government and military was consulted to examine videos of these witness giving testimony.

Results:

The interviews conducted by the original investors interviewed people who seemed sincere including a schoolteacher who just said, “I’ve seen one now” and laughed it off like it is a mudane thing(One would imagine for a town that has had UFO's appearing over it for decades would be desensitized to them)

The lie detector test showed that Meier was definitely telling the truth that he really did photograph beamships and he did not use any strings and small models etc and the only thing he lied about was whether he was still drinking coffee or not!(He has promised his wife he would quit, but he was sneaking in a few cuppa) The NLP expert agreed that Billy Meier is telling the truth. He also confirmed his UN diplomat friend was telling the truth.

Note: The above merely establishes that the witnesses believe they are telling the truth

Documentary footage of witness testimony and tests:

Watch segment of 3:35 of part 2, 0:00 of part 7

For the NLP expert analysing the UN diplomat watch Horn’s documentary and segment 25:00 and42:29.

Miscellenious evidence

* The tree that Meier had shot at using the Plejaren old model ray-gun was found parched around the entry-hole and entry hole was oval and and went right through the other side. It was smoothe as glass inside. The Investigators tied a string around the truck of the entry-hole and went back as far into the forect they could from the point Meier said he used the weapon and found that everything within a straight line from there was parched just like the tree and twigs were broken in between as if a laser had passed through them.

* The disclosure project verifies that Billy Meier is telling the truth

George Green, ex CIA official confirms that Billy Meier is telling the truth and also claims contacts of its own(which are not supported by Billy Meier who claims he's the only one in contact)

EVALUATION

Normally you end with a conclusion but I began with my conclusion. The entire sum of the evidence validates that Billy Meier is telling the truth. The evidence supports exactly what Meier claims. These beamships are real, up to 20feet in size, they are flying hundreds of feet above the ground, they are using field-propulsion and they make their jumps by increasing their field resonance above the earth resonance which causes them to jump out of phase into hyperspace.

Everything is internally consistent and forms a coherent whole:

1. The sound analysis validates that the beamships are indeed are using the earths magnetic field(as Meier tells)
2. The photographic and videographic analysis validates that the beamships indeed do have a artificial field surrounding them(explaining the slight blur and light anomolies) and they are very large craft and at a significant distance from the camera.
3. The metal sample analysis validates that it indeed is a space-age metal using chemical and metallurgical technology beyond our means
4. The NLP expert examinations and lie-detector tests do indeed validate that the witnesses are sincere and do believe they are telling the truth
5. The oval-hole in the tree and the parched things in the line of the fire and the unique and unknown type corrboroate that this is a ray-weapon. The gold metallic space suit having the same properties that protect against heat and radiation in a spacecraft validate that it indeed is a spacesuit.

So where does this leave some of the other "evidence"? The Asket and Nera pictures, the Dino pictures and other pics? Most of these fall into the most likely fake or unfalsifiable category. They can be explained as an unfortunate side-effect of the Meier case running out of control, leading to either members in his organization or himself feeling the need to create pictures to support his real-life trips. It is also possible that these are set-ups by powers that are trying to demolish his case.

However, what really matters is the sum of the hard evidence presented in this summary and that is clearly shouting out very loud:

Billy Meier really was and possibly still is in contact with Plejarens

Thus we have the closest to proof positive on the existence of ET and its vistations to Earth. Now that we have established that the Plejarens are real, we should take all of Meiers contact notes very seriously and learn more about our history, proper science, our future and spirituality.

I rest my case.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit to add: The sum of the evidence, the very high degree of internal consistency is insurmoutable so as to make it impossible for a skeptic to debunk. So one who continues to maintain this case is a hoax can only do at the risk of throwing away logic, reason and science to the wind.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

WOW it's a Meierite invasion, continually posting their rubbish all over the place. Indigo Child you should win the ATS Cut and Paste Award 2009

aspie, that was a personal attack. ATS is strick on personal attacks. You should bge temporary banned for this personal slander.

Is it just me or the IIG topic is "Not Found"

reply to post by EffEcTiVe_UniT


Yes, I am absolutely stunned, but the debunking IIG thread appears to have been deleted - and at a very pivotal moment IMO. Can anyone tell me what is going on with this?

[edit on 20-4-2009 by Malcram]

Couldn't find the thread either. Maybe the Plejarens made it disappear just like the trees in the movies. Nah, don't think so. I guess one of the owners or moderators were fed up with the Meier topic and the chaos that it ensues.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by TerraX]

Originally posted by Malcram
Yes, I am absolutely stunned, but the debunking IIG thread appears to have been deleted - and at a very pivotal moment IMO. Can anyone tell me what is going on with this?

It has been determined that we (ATS) don't need another thread on the subject of the Billy Meier hoax. For those who wish to debate the minutiae of the broadly accepted UFO hoax, our existing threads should serve the purpose.

its been a while since ive seen this thread.

love those pics that are sooooo close to seeing the alien but nope couldnt move the camera over an inch. yeah right. geet a life. it doesnt take a genius to call hoax on tthis

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by DaMod
I figured alien life would have sort of a miniature version of a Spartan Laser. All we got was the dumb, poorly made, toy.

That pretty much says it all doesn't it? I put forth that nobody advanced enough to manipulate time and space to their advantage would design such an object. It is like the space brothers had been watching our science fiction movies and decided to give us a ray gun that we would recognize. How come there are no demonstrations of it in action? We can have videos of ships dancing around trees, but we cannot see the blaster in action? Something smells funny. Yes I know special effects were kind of sparse in Billy's day and that probably explains a whole lot.

If you had actually read the contact notes you would know that the "laser gun" in the photographs is several hundred years old. Their current weapons use thought commands to fire, not a trigger you press with your finger. That seems pretty advanced to me.

Ahh that's the whole problem with the people who call this a hoax, they haven't done the research.

reply to post by Malcram


Indeed, just at the point when Derek publically admitted that IIG did not even research Billy Meier's materials, thus confessing that effectively they made statements on Meiers evidence without even researching it. Pivotal moment indeed.

Anyway that thread patently demonstrated that the Meier case is NOT a proven hoax.

Oh well, lets take it in our stride, and continue the discussion here.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Repeat post.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Not impressed with the deletion of the IIG topic. Shows how biased some people are towards information.

Now that is out of the way.

Lets repeat to what i had to say...In the chronicles of Billy meier the documentary, jim dilettoso clearly said that he was examining multiple pictures as they were to see if anything was presented as a hoax. He said there was none that he could find.

Now once again i like to get this off my chest. Billys wife and her "debunking billy" Look here.

www.youtube.com...

also in there near the end is jim dilletoso looking at the picture while saying that this isnt the first picture as he did looked at other billy pictures.

www.youtube.com...

above is the 4th part in the beggining jim admits himself that he thinks its genuine as in no models or tampering.

Let it keep playing and you will hear the sound results.

Lets start with that and build our discussion from this.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by EffEcTiVe_UniT]