Racism and Understanding

Without giving away my actual age, I remember the 60s and 70s with clarity. I remember when JFK was killed; I recall the Civil Rights Movement; I recall LBJ in Vietnam; I remember when Bobby Kennedy and MLK were both killed in 1968; and I remember all the stupid politically-correct vaudeville that sprang out of the Civil Rights era.

What we saw in those years was a very real fight for people of every color and creed to redefine themselves, and that battle was a hell of a ride with a lot of crazy tangents and a lot of casualties. But, eventually, the people of my generation — who lived through it all — settled down and found our inner peace (most of us, that is). Most people of my age have no problem today with racism or sexism, and we finally know the relief of a world without Cold War.

Yeah, I hate to be the one to pop your cherry, but real racism is long dead, and the trifling nonsense called "racism" today isn't about the violation of civil liberties at all... Today it's about the thought police, it's about extortion, and it's about people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson keeping the racist dream alive, because without racism, these has-been Civil Rights Movement dinosaurs have no power and have no income.

It's a typical socialist strategy, when they have no better argument, to drag out the "hate" rhetoric, or to play the "race card" to distract attention from the weakness of the socialist argument. I opine that those who cry hate the loudest are the true haters in this country, just as those who cry racism the loudest are the true racists. In both instances, they are perpetuating a myth designed to divide our people and our nation, in an effort to create class warfare.

Today we should be focusing on the real racists allowed to run rampant in our society — the NAACP, the Nation of Islam, the Rainbow Coalition, and the legion of Affirmative Action and Slavery Reparation activists, for some of the most prominent examples — who are as guilty of trampling human rights and dividing America as any Neo-Nazi or KKK fanatic.

If there is a backlash against minorities in general and Blacks in particular, then it's due to mounting public resentment of these groups using some nebulous racial crisis as their political springboard to oppressing others. A more proper and modern definition of "racism" would be: RACISM The calculated use of racial issues (whether real or fabricated) as a means of accumulating wealth and advancing one's own political agenda.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/11/2007 by Doc Velocity]

posted by Doc Velocity
Without giving away my age, I remember the 60s and 70s with clarity and I remember all the stupid politically-correct vaudeville that sprang out of the Civil Rights era. [Edited by Don W]

Where are you going D/V?

Yeah, I hate to be the one to pop your cherry, but real racism is long dead, The trifling nonsense called "racism" today isn't about the violation of civil liberties at all . . Today it's about extortion, and people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson keeping the racist dream alive, because without racism, these has-been Civil Rights Movement dinosaurs have no power and have no income. It's a typical socialist strategy . . I opine that those who cry hate the loudest are the true haters just as those who cry racism the loudest are the true racists. In both instances, they are perpetuating a myth designed to divide our people and our nation, in an effort to create class warfare.

Today we should be focusing on the real racists allowed to run rampant in our society - the NAACP, the Nation of Islam, the Rainbow Coalition, and the legion of Affirmative Action and Slavery Reparation activists, for some of the most prominent examples - who are guilty of trampling human rights and dividing America. If there is a backlash against minorities in general and Blacks in particular, then it's due to mounting public resentment of these groups using some nebulous racial crisis as their political springboard to oppressing others.

A proper and modern definition of "racism" would be: RACISM The calculated use of racial issues (whether real or fabricated) as a means of accumulating wealth and advancing one's own political agenda. - Doc Velocity [Edited by Don W]

You have a powerful message there, Mr D/V

I can only say I hope this one falls on deaf ears.

[edit on 4/11/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
You have a powerful message there, I can only say I hope this one falls on deaf ears.

Yes, I'm sure you'd love to see my message censored, or at least heavily edited. I rest my case.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/11/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by donwhite
I believe it was Dick Gregory who said it was impossible for a black person to be a racist in America. Like bribery is a rich man’s crime, so racism is a white man’s crime. I hear it a lot.

Though I don't live in america.. I know this isn't true.

What do you think of the Corker versus Ford Playmate ad in last years Tennessee election? What do you think about the Willie Horton ad used in 1988? What do you think about the constant demigration of Al Sharpton on white tv?

I have no idea who you're talking about.. and the american TV we get in Aus isn't 'white'.. it's multicultural so I can't be sure if your reference to this being 'white TV' is objective.
When you refer to all 50+ white people being racist you are also refering to other nationalities. Please bear that in mind when making generalisations as this is not an american only site. Racism varies from country to country.

If you can condemn all of those acts out of hand, then you are definitely not one of the 54 year old racists I referred to.

So you can admit then the not all 54 year old whites aren't racist then?

Originally posted by donwhite
I believe it was Dick Gregory who said it was impossible for a black person to be a racist in America. Like bribery is a rich man’s crime, so racism is a white man’s crime. I hear it a lot.

Then I'd like to know the meaning of the word "racist" as used by Mr. Gregory (I don't think he said it actually). Because on the face of it, this sounds like an absurd statement to me. Of course, we may have different meanings for the word racist.

I rather like this quote of his...

"Just being a Negro doesn't qualify you to understand the race situation any more than being sick makes you an expert on medicine." -Dick Gregory

What do you think about the constant demigration of Al Sharpton on white tv?

"White TV"?

What I make is that he isn't that well-liked. Not because he's black, but because of his agenda, which seems to make victims out of all black people. That's what I don't like about him, anyway.

Just because someone doesn't like a black person, don't assume that it's because he's black.

posted by riley
Though I don't live in America.. I know this isn't true. I have no idea who you're talking about . . and the American TV we get in Aus isn't 'white' . . it's multi cultural . . When you refer to all 50+ white people being racist you are also referring to other nationalities. Please bear that in mind when making generalizations as this is not an American only site. Racism varies from country to country. So you can admit then the not all 54 year old whites aren't racist then? [Edited by Don W]

Wow! OK on not living here. You’re right, I engaged in hyperbole. Well, its not too important now, anyway. I am not aware of what you describe as multi-cultural but I think I know what you mean by the context. I had no intent of referring to non-US of A types. Yes on variations. Is that a double negative on purpose?

I always wanted to visit Australia, but I never had the time and money at the same time. My closest connection to Australians was my brief sojourn with the 77 Squadron RAAF, at Kimpo AB, Korea, in late 1953. They flew Glouster Meteors. I visited their mess several times for a good sample of beer.

[edit on 4/11/2007 by donwhite]

Hey guys,

Remember, we are a multi-cultural community and all are welcome here with their opinions in hand...

With the world shrinking as we speak, the need for understanding in something as complicated as Racism, crosses all oceans and borders.

Semper

quote]Originally posted by donwhite
You know what they say, F/F, It's the exception that proves the rule.


Well donwhite .. it just sounds like ageism to me. I get the impression you don't like old white people. 53+ years old white people. Are you ageist?

Originally posted by donwhite
I believe it was Dick Gregory who said it was impossible for a black person to be a racist in America.

Dick Gregory (who ever he is) isn't very bright if he believes that

What do you think of the Corker ... Willie Horton ... the constant demigration of Al Sharpton on white tv?

- the Corker thing .. never heard of it.
- Willie Horton ... not good
- 'demigration Al Sharpton' .. Sharpton has brought that on himself. Just like Jim Baker. Just like Benny Hinn. Just like Pat Robertson. Just like Jimmy Swaggert.

Corrupt tele evangelists and/or high profile 'ministers' who lie, cheat, and steal, all find themselves made fun of by the public. It doesn't matter what color their skin is.

Sharpton made his own bed by faking racial incidents and by his very shady financial handlings. I say the same type of thing about Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert and their $$$ dealings (and adultry).

'White TV' - ???? No.

Edited to add the 'white tv' response.



[edit on 4/12/2007 by FlyersFan]

posted by FlyersFan
Well donwhite . . it just sounds like ageism to me. I get the impression you don't like old white people. Are you [an] ageist? Dick Gregory (who ever he is) isn't very bright if he believes that . [Edited by Don W]

No, I don’t think of myself as an ageist. In a better world, there would be lots of old people assisting with the care of young people. In actuality, I believe I’ve encountered as many white people born after 1954 who are prejudiced against blacks as those born before that momentous date.

Dick Gregory - he may still be alive - a comedian turned social activist, was a compatriot of Harry Belafonte and Bill Cosby.

- the Corker thing . . never heard of it. - Willie Horton . . not good

I’m sure you have heard of newly elected Senator Bob Corker of Chattanooga, TN and the black Congressman Harold Ford of Memphis. The two ran to fill the seat vacated by Bill Frist, the GOP Majority Leader. November 7, 2006. Late polls showed Ford closing fast, but Corker was holding a narrow lead. A 527 group ran an ad showing black Ford at a Hugh Hefner fund raising party with a white girl standing beside him. That’s called “Playing the Race Card.” A Republican forte. Immediately, the polls surged - hey another favorite GOP word - in Corker’s favor. Remember about 3-4 months ago, every other word out of B43's mouth was “robust?” Now it’s “surge.” He is learning new words all the time.

- 'demigration Al Sharpton' .. Sharpton has brought that on himself.

Americans are a funny people. They want to pick the leaders of any group they disagree with. Then, we insist the other side must give up its advantage before we will talk with them. Wardens wont talk to prisoner until they release they hostages. America won’t talk to Hezbollah until they turn in their weapons. We won’t talk to Hamas until they concede Israel’s right to exist. We won’t talk to NK or Iran until they stop their nuclear programs.
If our adversaries did that, there would be nothing remaining to talk about.

Sharpton made his own bed by faking racial incidents and by his very shady financial dealings.

I don’t believe he was a party to the young girl in NY who said she was abducted by NYPD and raped. So much police abuse - including rape - by police on blacks has happened in the past that such stories are not at all hard to believe. Sharpton took up her cause because it was the most egregious claim made against “whitey” lately. The solution is simple. If white America does not like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, then talk to any one or a dozen of black leaders around the country.

The truth is white America has nothing to say to black America. Well, they do say “Take it or Leave it!”

posted by Benevolent Heretic

posted by donwhite
I believe it was Dick Gregory who said it was impossible for a black person to be a racist in America.

I'd like to know the meaning of the word "racist" as used by Mr. Gregory (I don't think he said it actually). Because on the face of it, this sounds like an absurd statement to me. Of course, we may have different meanings for the word racist. [Edited by Don W]

I never knew him personally and I did not like his humor half as much as I liked Richard Pryor’s before his epiphany. I think his point was only the dominate race (white) can oppress (blacks) which is the equivalent of racism. Racism is the polite way to exploit or oppress another group.

"White TV"? What I make is that he isn't that well-liked. Not because he's black, but because of his agenda, which seems to make victims out of all black people. That's what I don't like about him, anyway. [Edited by Don W]

I believe Sharpton's agenda is “Equal Justice Under Law” as inscribed at the Supreme Court Building; to stop the “last hired, first fired” rule of American employers; to improve housing - usually owned by whites and in neighborhoods often abandoned by local government - to improve education - there is still racial segregation in public schools - and to improve health care - blacks die sooner than whites. But his message falls on deaf (Republican) ears.

Just because someone doesn't like a black person, don't assume that it's because he's black.

I’d need proof of that - deeds not words - and I admit it is a theoretical possibility, but I say not in America. I think that remark is equal to “some of my best friends are black.”

[edit on 4/12/2007 by donwhite]

Hmmm...yet another topic we are going to agree to disagree on, DW (no surprise to either of us I'm sure ).

The Rev. Sharpton is a flim-flam man of the highest order. His only agenda is to foment his victimhood agenda. He and his ilk castigated and figuratively crucified those Duke lacrosse players before any investigation took place. Now where is he when all charges have been dropped, and in the words of the state attorney general of North Carolina, paraphrasing here, "they're innocent", he owes them at the very least an apology. He, though hardly by himself, helped ruin these kids lives.

If he wants to promote justice for all before the law, he should stop talking just long enough for actual justice to take place, not his version of it.

Now that I've returned to town from a few days off, I will continue my post about my grandfather, which appeared on Page One of this thread.

My grandfather told the man with the knife to make the first cut count because after that, he didn't have a chance in hell. My grandfather was a huge man. He had fingers like sausages.

The man thought about it and took off, which was a smart thing to do.

My grandfather was an angry man. He was the eldest son, but unwanted and the reason his parents married. He was denied the education he deserved because of the sheer bitterness of his parents. They were forever angry about having to marry because of him.

He smoldered for years, taking out his frustrations on his friends and family. He was a functioning alcoholic and, basically, an all-around complete p***k.

I have no doubt that guy would have been unrecognizable when Gramps got done with him.

Obviously, the point here is that the man with the knife, a black man, assumed my grandfather had money simply because he wore a nice suit and was white.

posted by Tea

My grandfather told the man with the knife to make the first cut count . . The man thought about it and took off, which was a smart thing to do.

I have no doubt that guy would have been unrecognizable when Gramps got done with him . . the point here is that the man with the knife, a black man,
[Edited by Don W]

Here's the crucial words " . . a black man . . "

Why not just a robber? Or an assailant? But hey, this is America! Confirm our worst suspicoins . . a black man,

Originally posted by donwhite
Here's the crucial words " . . a black man . . "

Why not just a robber? Or an assailant? But hey, this is America! Confirm our worst suspicoins . . a black man,

For the extra obtuse, I intentionally did not identify the robber as any color in my initial post. I'd like to know what other people were thinking when they read it. Did they assume the man was black? I'd solicit feedback, but I doubt anyone will tell the truth.

Hello Mr Tea

I make no claim not to be prejudiced. I am not particularly into showing how anyone is or is not. Rather, I try to point out how most of us whites do things or say things that are offensive to black people. Frankly this is due to our ignorance, which in turn, is due to our “superior” position in a society where class is defined by skin color. Colin Powell reports slow service for exampe. Blacks must learn white’s idiosyncracies for survival, we, as the dominant race, do not have to learn theirs. That is a benign expression of racism.

Did human relations improve between 1865 and 1965? Yes, by several orders of magnitude. Do you think it will continue to improve between 1965 and 2065? Yes, because almost all people living here regardless where they are from, are people of good will and are innately fair minded. When will race become a non-issue? Hmm? I’d guess sometime between 2065 and 2165. If we keep working at it.

[edit on 4/12/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Tea
I'd solicit feedback, but I doubt anyone will tell the truth.

FWIW, my mental picture of the guy was white... as my 'story' relates, I grew up around very few non-white people... I still, when mentally picturing someone I've never seen, picture white, without much regard to the activity involved.

Which has its own set of problems, to be sure.

Originally posted by donwhite
I try to point out how most of us whites do things or say things that are offensive to black people.

And a very good job you do. And I agree with you. I just wish you would see the other side as well. Generally speaking, black people do and say things that are offensive to white people just as well. But as is seen in the Imus case, it's societally acceptable for a black person (rap artists) to offend white people, but have the same exact words come out of a white man's mouth and the entire black population is up in arms led by the reverends.

Originally posted by Tea
I'd solicit feedback, but I doubt anyone will tell the truth.

I will! I assumed he was black since we were telling race stories. I'm glad the story ended the way it did. I was afraid your grandfather got hurt.



[edit on 12-4-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Hi All,

Well, I am pleasantly surprised to see a thread such as this one not reduced to personal attacks or angry rhetoric. I have so many stories about first hand accounts of racism, but I will only list a few so that I can make a statement about what I think racism really is. (just my opinion of course! )

Age 8:
There was apparently an outbreak of lice at my elementary school. I remember the look of disgust and revulsion the nurse gave me as I walked up to have my hair checked. I thought it was because she thought I had lice in my hair, but then I realized she did it to all of the children who were black.

Age 9 & 10:
Two new girls joined our class, who were of Japanese descent. I was very excited to get to know them because I had never met or had any friends who were asian. We had a great first week of getting to know each other. Then the next monday they told me they couldn’t play with me or talk to me anymore. When I asked why, they told me because their parents told them black people were not nice and not to be trusted. I could see the hurt and sadness in their eyes, but disobeying their parents was not an option.

Age 14:
Having been forced to move from TX to GA, the school high school I was enrolled in had black people and white people walking on opposite sides of the halls, sitting separately at lunch and in class, and riding separate busses. It was unforced segregation, and the students preferred it that way. To say I was shocked and bewildered would be quite the understatement. It was the first time ever I remember having no friends, as I could not seem to relate to anyone on any level.

Age 15-17:
Having finally settled in a place called Conyers GA, I decided to take all advance placement classes to help prepare me for college.(I wanted to be a Veterinarian) I was the only black person in my classes. Apparently only white people took those classes, and if you signed up for AP classes, well then you were trying to be white. (I know-- doesn’t make much sense huh??)

So I endured several years of harsh name-calling, teasing, threats, derision,
and ridicule from all the black people who went to my school. And I do mean ALL of the black people. So needless to say, my friends were all white. I was told by the white people who knew me (friends included) that I wasn’t really black, I was different. Try as I might I could never get them to understand that I was really black, and that outside of Conyers, there were other black people who were as "different" as I was. I don’t think it ever really set in.

Age 19:
I am now attending Tuskegee University, a historically black college that my mother forces me to go to. (I had always wanted to go to Texas A & M since I was 9 years old) Its a new experience going to a school where everyone is black. No one thinks I "talk white" or "act white", and everyone is from everywhere. I only run into a few people who have some very extreme views about white people (actually, anyone who wasn’t black) and unfortunately one of them is my history professor.

I become a thorn in my history professor’s side when I start challenging his "facts" about how black people are the "root race" and how all great ideas are originally those of black people. (He even tried to claim Santa Clause as originating with black people, which I thought was downright hilarious!) I did research on my own, and yet having only been limited to the info in our library (giggle-- no internet in 89' ), I was still able to shed light on how many of his "facts" were untrue.

Age 24:
Now married and living in Wash DC, I am very pregnant at 8 months, and having strange pains. With my husband at work, I have to take the Metro Rail (our subway system) to my doctors preferred hospital alone. In order to get there I have to take the train and then hail a cab the rest of the way. As I wait at the bus stop where I know cabs stop to pick up potential passengers, my pains become worse. I breathe a sigh of relief when I see a cab coming towards me. The driver slows down, looks at me, and then speeds up to pick up a man 20 feet in front of me. Yes, this man was white.

I am shocked and I start crying hysterically, worried about my baby and thinking Ill never get to the hospital. A group of people waiting for the bus, rush to me and tell me how upset and angry they are that the cab driver passed me by the way he did. A man in a very nice business suit sees a cab going in the opposite direction and waves him down. The driver pulls a very illegal u-turn in the middle of the street and cheerfully asks the man where he would like to go. The man replies that he would like to go to the closest hospital , and then ushers me into the cab. This man in the nice business suit just happened to be white.

Yet, the cab driver is not upset that his passenger is not the man in the suit. He asks me what is wrong, as I am still visibly upset and in pain. I explain everything to him as he hurriedly speeds to the hospital. He apologizes for the other cab drivers behavior, and then personally takes me inside the hospital and makes sure I am alright before leaving. He refused to take the money I owed him for the cab ride.

Age 26:
I am now working as a vet tech intern at an animal hospital located in Bowie MD. The Vet who owns the hospital is a great person, who makes anyone feel welcome within 15 min of meeting her. Her staff consists of one office manager, one receptionist, another vet tech, and a Vet who works in her place on Tuesdays. I feel like I have joined a new family. I notice that the woman who is the office manager, has been sending some rather strange statements my way in a couple of our conversations.

A couple of her comments:
"You know, I really do like that Michael Jackson! He sure can dance!!" (Said out of the blue to me one day while we were driving to our group outing to Six Flags-- paid for by out Vet no less!! )

"Can you fry chicken??" (my reply: "yeah" ) "mmmmm hmmmm! I bet you sure can!"

"You know, we had colored people at my high school. We got along great with them, cause they never bothered us and we never bothered them." (I had to explain to her that many black people would be offended if she called them "colored" and that she shouldn’t say it if she didn’t want someone to start yelling at her. She seemed quite surprised at that, and wondered why “I” wasn’t angry at her)

“Hey that young black fella kinda looks like the lawn jockey in front of my house.” (I was too dumbfounded to make a reply. I didn’t know that people still used black lawn jockeys. Well, that is until I saw a few while driving with the Vet to do a house call.)

"Hey, what do black people think about __________?" (Insert anything here. Despite all of my attempts to explain to her that I was not a spokes person for all black people, she still asked.)

"Hey!! You look just like Aunt Jemima right now!!" (Said when she saw me in the heavy x-ray gown that we had to wear when taking x-rays of animals. My hair was up in a ponytail and I had no scarf on.)

Now, I understood that this woman who was about 42, was suffering from never having left the town of Bowie, and the various situations involving her upbringing. I didn’t see her as a racist, just as being ignorant and a bit bigoted. Yet the last statement of hers about me looking like Aunt Jemima really made me angry. I explained to her that she had better not ever say that to another black person, as it was a very offensive thing to say and she was sure to be cussed out from here to Sunday. She responded that she was just joking and that she didn’t know I would get so upset.

She tried to explain to me that because I was "different" she felt she could say that I looked like Aunt Jeremiah and I wouldn’t get offended. So I asked her how exactly I looked like Aunt Jemima?

[edit on 4/12/2007 by sylvrshadow]

[cont]


I wasn’t overweight in anyway. My speech in no way sounded reminiscent of Aunt Jemima. I had no scarf on my head. I wasn’t pouring syrup, or making pancakes. I wasn’t serving food, or cleaning up. So I again asked her how she thought I looked like Aunt Jemima.

She had no reply, yet she still didn’t understand why I was upset. So then I asked her how would she like it if someone asked her how long she lived in a trailer home before she bought a house. She looked at me quizzically and replied, “I’d tell them about 6 years.”


Well, those are a few of the experiences that I have had in my 36 years of life. Based on my experiences and my viewpoint on life in general, I look at racism a bit differently. If this is the definition of racism:

rac•ism (rā'sĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Then it only exists based on an individuals fears, mis-understanding, and the inability of that person to educate themselves about others who they see as being different. In that case, there is racism against sex, sexuality, race, religion, ethnicity, monetary status, particular regions in the US, particular regions in the world, and if we had neighbors on another planet, racism against everything associated with said beings on that planet.

There exists cultural differences between all people, even people of the same race. If you are from NY and you move to or visit New Orleans, well, there are going to be regional-cultural differences that exist regardless of race. I find cultural differences of people intriguing and endearing. They help to define us as an individual, but do not concretely define who a person is.

I have many cultural quirks, behaviors, and sayings that define me as being of many races, regions, religions, cultures, etc. I am ME before I am any label, and I find that I evolve as a person every day. I am by no means perfect, and I am guilty of exhibiting viewpoints that are prejudiced, biased, judgmental, or racist. I make no excuses for that, but I am hopeful that I learn to be less of those things everyday. It is my hope that we all will.


[edit on 4/12/2007 by sylvrshadow]

Originally posted by sylvrshadow
I find cultural differences of people intriguing and endearing. They help to define us as an individual, but do not concretely define who a person is.

I have many cultural quirks, behaviors, and sayings that define me as being of many races, regions, religions, cultures, etc. I am ME before I am any label, and I find that I evolve as a person every day.

Wonderful, heart-rending story...

And I think the two statements above say it all... thank you so much for sharing this...