Questions about Masonry: an open and honest forum

Don't get me wrong, I'm constantly asking questions. Mainly about the Bible, Torra, Koran. Theology in general, and how come there are so many similarities within all. It still amazes me how a Christian can rubbish what a Jew says, or a Muslim can rubbish what a Hindu says. From what I understand and what I've read, WE all come from the same stuff...It's the history of Humanity and Religion that really gets me goin though!!

Nice to talk to You Rock...

Nice to have you here blue73, you too bdrice12.
You two are both welcome here.
It's an honor to have your first posts here on this thread.

Blue, I'm sure that your father would be overjoyed to have his son join into Masonry with him.
It has been a bonding experience for many father/sons for generations.

Rockpuck, I truly appreciate you guiding this thread when your schedule permits, as always, it's an honor to call you brother.

bdrice12, good luck with your petition.
Please let us know how it goes.

Aw shucks wu kung

We all appreciate you creating this thread in the first place. It has truly inspired reasonable, intellectual and open conversation and in most cases, as we try in all cases, an adequate answer is given.

To others looking at this thread and seeing the information, someone e-mailed me this video I think ya'll with question on Masonry will really enjoy.

This is a professional video filmed with the cooperation of the Masonic Hall at Bradford, West Yorkshire England.

It gives an excellent insight into Freemasonry and what goes on in lodge, as presented by real Freemasons, not the has beens and wannabes you see in so many other videos.

Google Video Link

Produced for: Province of Yorkshire West Riding-England
With the support of: United Grand Lodge of England

[edit on 4/25/2007 by Rockpuck]

I'm not sure if this is the place to do it - but I have a small query regarding freemasonry that I would like answering if any of you can do so.

With regard to the freemasonry 'emblem' the compass and square - do Freemasons wear this at all times (obviously not ALL the time) in public as a badge or only when amongst other masons? If not now, do you know whether this was once practice etc?

Thanks

I have the Square and Compass as well as other Masonic symbols on all 3 of my vehicles. I also have 4 different Masonic rings I wear both inside and outside the lodge though not all at the same time.

[edit on 25-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by RWPBR
I have the Square and Compass as well as other Masonic symbols on all 3 of my vehicles. I also have 4 different Masonic rings I wear both inside and outside the lodge.

Thank you for answering my question - you're certainly loud and proud! - can I ask another - would you accept someone as a Freemason simply for displaying the symbols or would you need further confirmation, is the handshake etc just when visiting other lodges etc?

The reason I ask, I was reading about the use of the Forget-me-not by Freemasons in Nazis Germany and I wondered why Freemasons would want to wear an insignia at all in such circumstances and for whose benefit. I do not look up on this conspiratorially, but given the wide variety of factions involved in the establishment of Nazis Germany, it would seem feasible to me, that masonry could have existed on both sides of the divide. Therefore would the Forget-me-Not have acted as a notice to Nazi Masons to protect their brothers who were otherwise unprotected by party affiliation?

Any light you can shed on this matter would be helpful. Thank you.

A lapel pin or even a membership card is not enough. We have various means and modes of recognition and verification that I will not go in to for obvious reasons.

As far as the Forget me not goes. There is a lot of information out there on the internet. IIRC nazi germany did not allow masonry to exist for the same reasons that all tyrants forbid it...Mason love liberty and think for themselves.

I have tried to get further information on this from the internet and have come up short. As i said I don't look up on it as a conspiracy, i think it is perfectly feasible that some Masons may have ended up in the Nazis party. Not all Nazis hated Freemasons, this was just the official line...some nazis were good men (and women) who sought to fight the system from within or joined for one ideal only to find that ideal lost in the course of gaining power etc.

I found the choice of the Forget-me-not as quite interesting and wondered whether it was possible that it could have been used to bridge the divide or whether it is simply the nature of Freemasonry that they have to wear an emblem of allegiance as to do otherwise is denial.

Thanks for taking the time to help me with this.

Incidently, Rockpuck - nice film - there's nowt like a group of Yorkshiremen to tell it how it is...they're as honest as they come and they don't mince their words (the Cathedral featured is in the City where I live -so its nice to see a little bit of home on ATS). By'eck its grand.

It is my understanding the the forget me not was used inside the jewish ghettos and concentration camp by jewish Masons and I doubt they had much sympathy for the nazi party.

This is why I was curious - the Freemasons were persecuted and sent to camps, as i understand it between 80,000 and 200,000 are thought to have died under the Nazi regime. Not all of those i would have thought would be Jews as the Freemasons are cross-denominational. To my interpretation it would be feasible for a Nazis party member to be a Freemason. Initially, I would have thought there would be no conflict of belief. I am not suggesting that camp commandants would be masons etc as this would conflict with the dictates of masonry. Freemasons were not persecuted for judaism, they were persecuted for following freemasonry.
So just as a freemason could be a jew, they could as easily be a catholic, an intellectual, a homosexual or a gypsy.

Obviously those in the camps and ghettos were beyond hope but would a freemason Nazis offer aid to a non-nazi freemason should the situation arise and therefore would the Forget-me-Not act as protection?

Valid questions that I sadly have no definitive answers to.
Anything is possible but not everything is probable.

You're absolutely right - just my inquisitive nature I'm afraid. I read about it a while back and it's spring, Forget-me-nots everywhere so it has been playing on my mind, hopefully I have it out of my system now and I can appreciate the little blue flowers unhindered by such questions.

I was not thinking about it conspiratorially, there are a number of figures from that period whom I admire greatly, who were above all honourable men - they may have been on the wrong side but that is not to say they did not maintain their morality in the face of immorality.

Thanks so much for indulging me.

All the best

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I'm not sure if this is the place to do it - but I have a small query regarding freemasonry that I would like answering if any of you can do so.

With regard to the freemasonry 'emblem' the compass and square - do Freemasons wear this at all times (obviously not ALL the time) in public as a badge or only when amongst other masons? If not now, do you know whether this was once practice etc?

Thanks

This is surly the place for all questions in regards to Masonry..

I personally have a metal badge of a square and compass on my car, on my Fiance's car as well, and along with that, on my car I have customized plates that have the square and compass and say "Freemason" on the bottom

On my self personally, I wear a gold sguare and compass around my neck at all times, though admittedly I only wear it under my shirt..

I have 1 ring as well that is noticable, when I wear suit and tie anywhere I have at the very least, my lodg pin and a Masonic tie tack.

There is alllll kinds of things you can buy to proudly display your brotherhood..

Though a few weeks ago when I got my plates and emblem for my car and completely forgot about it (it was.. I believe the day after) I had an embarassing incident.. This guy kept waving at me, driving next to me as we where going down the street.. had no idea what he wanted and wouldn't stop waving.. got irritated because he just kept waving and trying to yell at me, nearly collided with me once so I flipped him off, thinking he was some nutcase. It was another Mason, though I stand by the fact that it still is not polite to act like that

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
This is why I was curious - the Freemasons were persecuted and sent to camps, as i understand it between 80,000 and 200,000 are thought to have died under the Nazi regime. Not all of those i would have thought would be Jews as the Freemasons are cross-denominational. To my interpretation it would be feasible for a Nazis party member to be a Freemason. Initially, I would have thought there would be no conflict of belief. I am not suggesting that camp commandants would be masons etc as this would conflict with the dictates of masonry. Freemasons were not persecuted for judaism, they were persecuted for following freemasonry.
So just as a freemason could be a jew, they could as easily be a catholic, an intellectual, a homosexual or a gypsy.

Obviously those in the camps and ghettos were beyond hope but would a freemason Nazis offer aid to a non-nazi freemason should the situation arise and therefore would the Forget-me-Not act as protection?

There is no official death count for Freemasons, as far as I can tell at least.. I have bought several books in relation to Masonry and WWII.. there are hypothesised numbers, and outrageous numbers and numbers I would call not high enough..

You hit the problem on the head though, Freemasons are not just Freemasons.. they are also Catholics, Protostants, Jews, Muslims, they belong to every political party, every religion, every ethnicity.. so while some Masons may not have been targeted for being a Mason, they could have been killed for being a Jew, or a Catholic, or a Homosexual, and no one knew he was a Mason because he may never had stated such..

As for, would a Freemason Nazi officer help a non-Nazi freemason?

Well there are very few stories of Masons actually obtaining high ranks in Nazi Germany.. not all Masons where hunted down like Jews, but Hitler did fear what went on in the lodges away from his spies, and feared a conspiracy against him.. so for the most part he dislodged Masons, killed those who where vocal, those who irritated him or his officers.

BUt.. hypothetically.. any Mason who comes across a Mason in need, regardless of nationality or place in battle, be it political, or otherwise.. has to take care of their fallen brother..

A quick google search on the Civil War in America, and even in the Revolutionary war, soldiers going through fields filled with wounded would hear the cries of a fallen Mason, they would treat that man as they would their own, regardless of what side they where on. Often Union soldiers found Southern Masons wounded and helped them to a surgeon, and vice versa.

BUt.. hypothetically.. any Mason who comes across a Mason in need, regardless of nationality or place in battle, be it political, or otherwise.. has to take care of their fallen brother..

A quick google search on the Civil War in America, and even in the Revolutionary war, soldiers going through fields filled with wounded would hear the cries of a fallen Mason, they would treat that man as they would their own, regardless of what side they where on. Often Union soldiers found Southern Masons wounded and helped them to a surgeon, and vice versa

That, Rockpuck, is one of the very things that endears me to Masonry.

As a member of a college fraternity, we have a saying:

"My brother right or wrong, but my brother nonetheless."

I can only imagine taking this idea from a college campus, and applying it to an entire world...

Bdrice that is a good way to put it,

Freemasonry is in fact a fraternity.. I have never been in a college fraternity, but I would imagine the basic fundamental points are roughly the same, as stated by your quote.

Applying to the entire world may be a stretch, there are quite a few Masons out there, you run into them all over the place.. and if you become a Mason you know what to look for, be it a ring, a conspicuously placed Masonic mug on an office desk, when I got my tires changed the place I went to literally all except one of the helpers, because he was to young, was a Mason. There will defently be an entire network of people out there, you can travel to any place in the country and know there will be at least 1 Mason somewhere, makes for good conversation to meet new people, especially one you have something in common with.

There are many things that this network can be used for, this is where people get the notion that men join Masonry because they can get "connected" and advance in their career ect. That is true sometimes, when it is exploited, often by someone who has no real interest in Masonry.. I think for the most part it doesn't happen though, but that could be my own thinking as these kind of things are hard to discern.

I came to this board this morning looking for a good way to kill some time. And this thread strikes a cord for me. I am Freemason and I have to laugh whenever someone says we control everything or we rule the world. I mistakenly skipped some of this thread so forgive me if this has already been covered.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
...

As for, would a Freemason Nazi officer help a non-Nazi freemason?

...

BUt.. hypothetically.. any Mason who comes across a Mason in need, regardless of nationality or place in battle, be it political, or otherwise.. has to take care of their fallen brother...

A quick google search on the Civil War in America, and even in the Revolutionary war, soldiers going through fields filled with wounded would hear the cries of a fallen Mason, they would treat that man as they would their own, regardless of what side they where on. Often Union soldiers found Southern Masons wounded and helped them to a surgeon, and vice versa.

When a new Mason becomes a Master Mason we take an Obligation which includes a part about coming to "The aide of distressed worthy brother where the chance of saving his life is more likely then me losing my own."

Since this is an obligation that all Freemasons take it is probably likely that a Nazi Freemason would help out a none Nazi but only if it would not put his life in grave peril.

[edit on 26-4-2007 by rkadow]

I apologise but some of what I was trying to say ended up in the quote above.

Welcome aboard brother, nice to have you here. As for the accidental quote a mod will sooner or later come around and fix that up for you. Good to have you on the boards, hope to see you be active in discussions.