Questions about Masonry: an open and honest forum

Now, I'm sure that this has been done before, but I wanted to open a brand new thread on this.
This thread is specifically for the open, honest and sincere questioning of Masonry.
I want you all to feel welcome to ask whatever questions you deem appropriate, however, you must understand, that being polite is of the utmost importance.
I want there to be no attacks, from either side, in this thread.
This is for gentleman (and women) only.
Members of the craft are expected to conduct themselves in a respectful and exemplary manner.
Those seeking education are expected to be polite in their inquiries.

Now, what questions have you?

id like to know more about the masons as my dad is one, all the stuff i show him on dvd and on the web he seems totally ignorant towards it and says i never heard any of this, we both agreed as a mason hes just a bottom feeder at the bottom supply monies to the higher of the freemasonary, how do i get him into more this side of it and educate him whats going on. He did tell me that he met the master aka the duke of kent and he was kinda rude and blanked him when be asked stuff and was wisked away to another meeting, i feel hes been brain washed to there stuff and doesnt know anything above the local lodge hes in and hes been a master of the lodge, does this type of lodge know anything more than what everyone else knows? would he have been told or showed anything that might make him nervous?.

Hi JB

Sounds like your father is an English freemason. The Duke of Kent is the Grand Master of UGLE but is pretty non-executive and gets wheeled out for the big ocassions. Most of the activities for freemasons are centered around the craft lodge, where he will be a member. Hopefully he enjoys it and has made some good friends.

There is no such thing as bottom-feeders and 'higher level masons' - this is disinfo put about by freemasonry's detractors. I'm not surprised he's ignorant of it as most of it is fantasy.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'this type of lodge', but he certainly won't have been told anything that might make him nervous. If there's anything specific you would like to know please ask, or u2u me if it's not very conspiratorial.

james

I am a not supprised that you father is at a loss. Not all masons are intrested in exploring our history, many of our brothers are more intrested in the present and the current goings on at the lodges than in the past. If you could be a bit more spacific as to the DVDs I could be more spacific in trying to answer your questions.

As to the Duke of Kent's reaction, as an American I can only offer a guess. If it was at a large function he probably had other duties, not an intentional snub just bad timing.

I would recomend your father start at his local lodge, the odds are that there will be at least one of the older masons who would be very happy to answer the questions you raised. In my lodge there are several very knowledgeable men who could either answer the questions or know someone who could. If it was me he asked, I'd offer to discuss the questions with both of you.

If you can be more spacific I will try here. While I don't post often I check this board at least once a day.

why do we say that we live in freedom and all that when we know good and well that we dont. I wanna know why masons control everything and why wont they let the people of America know what is really going on. I know alot of us cannot be trusted because of the fact that most of us are crooked. Im just curious, thats all, and would like to find out how i can find more info on wut is really going on in america without all the BS fronts that ppl put up....

Originally posted by noonenew
why do we say that we live in freedom and all that when we know good and well that we dont. I wanna know why masons control everything and why wont they let the people of America know what is really going on. I know alot of us cannot be trusted because of the fact that most of us are crooked. Im just curious, thats all, and would like to find out how i can find more info on wut is really going on in america without all the BS fronts that ppl put up....

Why do you say Masons control everything ? You have no evidence of this other that what you might have read somewhere from someone with no evidence either. I cant tell you why or how Masons control everything because Masons dont control everything...or anything for that matter.

No BS front, just that facts. You are being misled, misinformed and decieved... but not by the Masons.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by RWPBR]

I ve done research locally about masons and architecture. Ive come across a trend for representing Venus through symbols on buildings/gravestones. What is the masonic view of Venus and why all the trouble to convey it through obscure signs?

Stewart

Here is a reference that you may find useful.

HERE

I'll double check it once I post this to make sure it works.

As to why you are running into it more latly, architecture like many thing tends to be cyclical, this is only a guess on my part.


Noonenew,

Welcome to ATS. Personally though, I was hoping this thread would stay as Wu Kung started it.

But to reinterate the answer you already recieved, we don't run the country. Some businesses are run by Masons, others by Rotatrian, Optomists, Lions or any other club member. The only thing that is "run" by masons is our lodges. Our (America's) elected officials by and large are not members of the craft. (it might be better if they were.)

Originally posted by RWPBR

Originally posted by noonenew
why do we say that we live in freedom and all that when we know good and well that we dont. I wanna know why masons control everything and why wont they let the people of America know what is really going on. I know alot of us cannot be trusted because of the fact that most of us are crooked. Im just curious, thats all, and would like to find out how i can find more info on wut is really going on in america without all the BS fronts that ppl put up....

Why do you say Masons control everything ? You have no evidence of this other that what you might have read somewhere from someone with no evidence either. I cant tell you why or how Masons control everything because Masons dont control everything...or anything for that matter.

No BS front, just that facts. You are being misled, misinformed and decieved... but not by the Masons.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by RWPBR]

This is a perfect example of the sort of thing, IMO, that this thread should explore. In a civil manner, as concisely as possible, it might be intersting to explore the notion that "masons control everything". It's a curious idea. What evidence is there to support that idea? Perhaps it is something one might have been told or had simply been overheard. Perhaps you were still a child. Those are the type of things -- things overheard but not understood -- are the sort that can make a lasting impression on a kid. Regardless, it is important to try to understand the historical origins of the facts.

It is also vital to ask oneself ; What is the truth behind what you know? Can truth be altered? Is what one might have held as "true" in the past still as valid today?

I don't know the answers to these questions. I am hoping that those with a Masonic background might answer them.

So the masons control everything? Do they? Where did that story(or fact) ever arise? I get confused here. I thought that "the Jews" controlled everything? Are there Jewish Masons?


[Escellent idea Wu Kung....perhaps if we all work together, we might have a forum that will allow some misconceptions to be dispelled or, conversely, understanding to develop and Ignorance Denied)

[edit on 4/3/2007 by benevolent tyrant]

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant



This is a perfect example of the sort of think, IMO, that this thread should explore. In a civil manner, as concisely as possible, it might be intersting to explore the notion that "masons control everything". It's a curious idea. What evidence is there to support that idea? Perhaps it is something one might have been told or had simply been overheard. Perhaps you were still a child. Those are the type of things -- things overheard but not understood -- are the sort that can make a lasting impression on a kid. Regardless, it is important to try to understand the historical origins of the facts.

As someone who has studied Masonry, I think I have an explanation for this. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that there are some wealthy people within Masonry. Wealth generally, to most people, implies power and control.

As far as evidence, I'll be honest, all I have found is some very circumstantial things that implies any Masonic involvement in anything, really. There is not any solid proof of any "Masonic conspiracy," most of it is just alleged.

Also, there are a lot of people that get labelled as being Masons that are not Masons. I have heard that "every U.S president was a Mason," yet, when one actually looks into it, only about 13 were actually affiliated with Masonry.

In the minds of most CT's, the people that control everything are whatever people the CT's have a grudge against at the time, real or imagined.

I need to see evidence, not a web page with info from another web page that got its info from still another web page ad infinitum. Evidence it not what you believe, it is what you can prove.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
So the masons control everything? Do they? Where did that story(or fact) ever arise? I get confused here. I thought that "the Jews" controlled everything? Are there Jewish Masons?

Yes there are Jewish Masons.

I'm taking a guess here but I think it could be related to the fact that the esoteric side of the Masons makes heavy use of the Qabalah. (the same thing we occultists use) therefor Jews=Qabalah=occult=evil

That kinda brings up another question.. is there a source of the anti-Masonic stuff that somehow does not come from someone calling themself a Christian?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
This is a perfect example of the sort of think, IMO, that this thread should explore. In a civil manner, as concisely as possible, it might be interesting to explore the notion that "masons control everything". It's a curious idea. What evidence is there to support that idea? Perhaps it is something one might have been told or had simply been overheard. Perhaps you were still a child. Those are the type of things -- things overheard but not understood -- are the sort that can make a lasting impression on a kid. Regardless, it is important to try to understand the historical origins of the facts.

As someone who has studied Masonry, I think I have an explanation for this. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that there are some wealthy people within Masonry. Wealth generally, to most people, implies power and control.

As far as evidence, I'll be honest, all I have found is some very circumstantial things that implies any Masonic involvement in anything, really. There is not any solid proof of any "Masonic conspiracy," most of it is just alleged.

Also, there are a lot of people that get labelled as being Masons that are not Masons. I have heard that "every U.S president was a Mason," yet, when one actually looks into it, only about 13 were actually affiliated with Masonry.

I'd like to begin my reply by saying "thank you". I can appreciate such a clear, concise and direct reply to my questions.

I can appreciate that people might come to view anyone who was wealthier than themselves, especially in historical times when subsistence and poverty were the norm. Any outward display of wealth (sic) might easily be taken as a semblance of power and control.

Without any true understanding of the origins of "the masons", I will unabashedly display my ignorance in the anticipation that my queries will be answered. I have always assumed that the masons began as a sort of medieval trade union of sorts. I don't know how I constructed the myths that I have taken as knowledge surrounding this subject. I have assumed that the wealth and power that the masons held came from that membership or brotherhood in the trade of building, stonemasonry and architecture. I always, perhaps ignorantly, believed that the masons held architectural secrets of design that gave these groups a monopoly of sorts on building.

Everyone needs to live somewhere, right? Often security was an issue. The religious orders needed churches and abbeys. Kings and lords needed castles, manors and walls -- plenty of walls. The common man of those medieval times would have needed homes and structures as well. Stone was offered the most durability and security in those uncertain times. But building with stone was not a simple thing and "trade secrets" would have developed that enabled members of their craft unions to share their developments and knowledge. The craft or union that held the most secrets or best secrets could facilitate faster and more elaborate construction in the most economical ways. Of course this knowledge would give these unions/crafts/masons(?) a considerable amount of wealth and, yes, even power.

If this is a myth that I simply developed on my own or through misunderstanding, it was re-enforced. You mention that a number of presidents were masons. To that end, I knew that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and, perhaps, others were architects, at least they were most competent in designing and building not only their homes but structures and, in part, civic engineering projects.
I remember seeing pictures of George Washington in an apron holding a hammer. Given the understanding of masonry that I had developed and had accepted with out question, many of my beliefs were reinforced by what I simply saw or heard. How far off the mark am I as opposed to the facts as you have come to know and understand?

[edit on 4/2/2007 by benevolent tyrant]

Without any true understanding of the origins of "the masons", I will unabashedly display my ignorance in the anticipation that my queries will be answered. I have always assumed that the masons began as a sort of medieval trade union of sorts. I don't know how I constructed the myths that I have taken as knowledge surrounding this subject. I have assumed that the wealth and power that the masons held came from that membership or brotherhood in the trade of building, stonemasonry and architecture. I always, perhaps ignorantly, believed that the masons held architectural secrets of design that gave these groups a monopoly of sorts on building.

Well.

There are two opposing views on when Masonry began. Historians will tell you that Masonry didn't come into existence until 1717.

There is no commonly accepted Ancient History of Freemasonry – even UGLE does not publish a house view prior to its own initial conception in 1717.

History

The more esoteric view, the one that I take is that it dates back to at least ancient Egypt.Perhaps even further back than that.

It has recently been suggested (by Knight and Lomas) that Freemasonry ultimately evolved from Megalithic tribes who, having discovered science and astronomy, constructed numerous astounding astronomical observatories including Newgrange on the river Boyne, Bryn Celli Ddu and Stonehenge between 7100 BC and 2500 BC. It is believed that these sites enabled those tribes to chart the seasons and years by observing the rotations of the sun and the third brightest object in the sky, Venus. These were essential skills as without such timekeeping, civilisation would be hopelessly unable to plan or progress beyond mere day to day subsistence.

Ancient Masonry



[edit on 2-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
So the masons control everything? Do they? Where did that story(or fact) ever arise? I get confused here. I thought that "the Jews" controlled everything? Are there Jewish Masons?

Yes there are Jewish Masons.

I'm taking a guess here but I think it could be related to the fact that the esoteric side of the Masons makes heavy use of the Qabalah. (the same thing we occultists use) therefor Jews=Qabalah=occult=evil

That kinda brings up another question.. is there a source of the anti-Masonic stuff that somehow does not come from someone calling themself a Christian?

I'm a Jewish Mason which means I'm going to hell twice in some peoples eyes

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
So the masons control everything? Do they? Where did that story(or fact) ever arise? I get confused here. I thought that "the Jews" controlled everything? Are there Jewish Masons?

Yes there are Jewish Masons.

I'm taking a guess here but I think it could be related to the fact that the esoteric side of the Masons makes heavy use of the Qabalah. (the same thing we occultists use) therefor Jews=Qabalah=occult=evil

That kinda brings up another question.. is there a source of the anti-Masonic stuff that somehow does not come from someone calling themself a Christian?

Antimasonry IMHO is 60% religious, 30% political and 10% ignorance/fear/ paranoia.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by corsig



I'm a Jewish Mason which means I'm going to hell twice in some peoples eyes

OK....THAT was funny.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


There are two opposing views on when Masonry began. Historians will tell you that Masonry didn't come into existence until 1717.

Not really. The oldest known existing Masonic document, called the Regius Manuscript, dates from the 12th century. Other documents, called the Gothic Manuscripts, also date from the middle ages.

The modern Grand Lodge system began in 1717, but the Grand Lodge was formed by 4 London Lodges already in existence.

I seem to remember reading about a floor cloth that might be even older the the Regius Manuscript.

Originally posted by RWPBR

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
So the masons control everything? Do they? Where did that story(or fact) ever arise? I get confused here. I thought that "the Jews" controlled everything? Are there Jewish Masons?

Yes there are Jewish Masons.

I'm taking a guess here but I think it could be related to the fact that the esoteric side of the Masons makes heavy use of the Qabalah. (the same thing we occultists use) therefor Jews=Qabalah=occult=evil

That kinda brings up another question.. is there a source of the anti-Masonic stuff that somehow does not come from someone calling themself a Christian?

Antimasonry IMHO is 60% religious, 30% political and 10% ignorance/fear/ paranoia.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by RWPBR]

I would hazard a guess at 75% religious, 20% fear and paranoia and 5% poltical.

BT While I like your conversation, It is most likely a thread in its own, this thread I believe is for people who want to ask a question directly to Masons to have them answer..

A hypothetical approach would be a great idea, for a new thread.