Questions about Masonry: an open and honest forum

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Masonic Student
Obviously the anits arn't intrested in this tread. That may or may not be a good thhing but it is interesting.

I'm glad to see this is working so far.

It definitely shows their true motives. All of their claims that they "want discussion" is bunk. All most anti-Mason's want is a pulpit to spread their hateful drivel.
[edit on 4-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Exactly...they dont want to discuss...they want to rant.

Originally posted by wu kung
I for one (because that's one of the main reasons I started this thread) do hope to attract some anti-masons to this thread.
I would like to sit and discuss (not argue) the topic from both our points of view.
Hopefully, we can either calm some of the hate, dispel some of the misconception, or if nothing else, have them walk away with some food for thought.

Remember brothers, no matter how inflammatory their statements may be, govern yourselves accordingly.

It sounds nice but you forget that the only type of ignorance that cant be erased is the self imposed kind. I try to keep it civil but sometime I just have to give them the verbal smackdown they so richly deserve.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by wu kungThe more hateful their words are, the more kindness I want showed to them, because nothing perpetuates ignorance and spite more, than sinking to it's level.

And nothing's so galling as not getting the response you want.

Originally posted by corsig
It's almost Easter - all the Anti's are in church...

Quite right too. Hopefully they will learn something there.

As a Roman Catholic, I have come to realize that there are a lot of people who really don't have clue about the true nature of the Church. Yeah, yeah, there are secret archives in the Vatican library (who knows what devastating secrets that might hold, eh?). The Church has rituals shrouded in history (what sorcery are they performing?). And the Pope, along with the Bishops and Cardinals all wear funny hats. In other words, I am really used to quite a bit of ignorance directed at my religion by people who choose to believe what they want to believe because, hey, why change a perfectly good belief system even in the face of the truth?

I am not a Mason. I know a few Masons but that's as far as that has ever gone. And I certainly don't entertain any desire to join this organization. Nevertheless, I can feel some sympathy for this group as I recognize a similar bias directed against this organization by people who have come to believe what they believe and that's that. Some people choose to argue when they could try to learn and understand what they truly don't know.

This thread is a rather unique opportunity to dispell some long-held myths about Masonry or, through intelligent discourse, it might just confirm some beliefs. Who knows? But understanding comes through research and discussion and this is certainly a place for just that.

One aspect, I feel, that does cause a lot of dissent is that there are people who hold many beliefs that were developed from childhood. Some people were raised to believe that Catholics are evil (just like some might have been raised to consider Masonry evil). Some people were raised to think that Catholics aren't even Christian! (Just as some might have been raised to think that Masonry is anti-Christian). And some people believe that the "secret" Vatican archives are holding back secrets from humanity that will, somehow, have some importance in our own era even though these archived "secrets" are hundreds and hundreds years old (hmmmmm....I could almost make a similar parallel with the "secrets of the Masons).

The point that I am trying to make is that things that were learned as children -- you know beliefs -- at the foot of one's parents, elders or similar figures, are often the most difficult beliefs to challenge. As we grow older, some challenge the beliefs that they held as children while others cling to them like the security blankets of their infancy. This is why irrational fears and hatred still exist. This is why racism and bigotry still exist. This is why we still have people who cannot accept logic and reason in the face of truth. To do so means that the racist, the bigot and those filled with hatred might have to reject the false teachings of their bigoted and hate filled parents, elders and the authority figures of their misbegotten youth.

I wish to commend everyone on this thread for, so far, the discussion has been amiable and most thoughtful.

That was most profound Tyrant.
Oh, and thank you for your kind words and especially thank you for all of the support you have shown for this thread.

Many people blame their point of view on how they were raised.
However, there comes a time in every free-thinking persons life, where they must step back, look with their own eyes, and form their own personal opinion of the world.
Our point of view is our own responsibility, and ours alone.

And, our of curiosity, why do high ranking church officials wear funny hats?

I couldn't resist asking.

BT

That was a very insightful post. I do wish mods could receive way above votes.

I do think that you have hit on the very point as to why some antis are open to discussion and some are simply troles.

Challanging the fundimental beliefs we aquire as children must come from within the individual. When they are challanged from without, it is almost instinctive to deffend them to the last. You have hit the target with that point, and explained why so many of these threads have ended up shouting matches.

In so doing you have found one of the answers I was hoping to find when I started visiting here. THANK YOU!

[edit on 5-4-2007 by Masonic Student]

Since we seem to have a dearth of antis posting, I wonder if we could pull some of their objections from other threads for discussion. I’m not sure how that would fit with the T&C and the mods.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by Masonic Student]

If you wish, we can discuss that.
As long as it continues to stay within the framework of the topic.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
As a Roman Catholic, I have come to realize that there are a lot of people who really don't have clue about the true nature of the Church. Yeah, yeah, there are secret archives in the Vatican library (who knows what devastating secrets that might hold, eh?). The Church has rituals shrouded in history (what sorcery are they performing?). And the Pope, along with the Bishops and Cardinals all wear funny hats. In other words, I am really used to quite a bit of ignorance directed at my religion by people who choose to believe what they want to believe because, hey, why change a perfectly good belief system even in the face of the truth?

My Dad was Roman Catholic. On this site, Catholicism does receive a lot of antagonism;you are correct. Although, I think much of it is derived from the Crusades and the Inquisition, the recent pedophile cases hasn't helped the Church either.

I personally don't have a problem with Catholicism. I abhor what they did to the Gnostics and the Cathars, but that was a very long, long time ago.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

BT...

Try being a Catholic Mason.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
My Dad was Roman Catholic. On this site, Catholicism does receive a lot of antagonism;you are correct. Although, I think much of it is derived from the Crusades and the Inquisition, the recent pedophile cases hasn't helped the Church either.

I personally don't have a problem with Catholicism. I abhor what they did to the Gnostics and the Cathars, but that was a very long, long time ago.

Yes, but the shockwaves of their actions still resonate today.
I have seen, that a base mentality of many Christians/Catholics is to "civilize" the heathens (and by heathens, I mean every non-Christian) by forcing the belief of Jesus on us.
Now, I'm not saying that they all do that, but I have encountered it many, many times.

Sigh, I long for simpler times.

Okay, sorry, let's stay on topic now.

Can anyone shed light on the functions and role the Senior Deacon facilitates? Thank you in advance!

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
Can anyone shed light on the functions and role the Senior Deacon facilitates? Thank you in advance!

I personally am not sure if I'm allowed to answer that question.
However, I would ask one of the senior members of the craft to field this one.

Would any of the officers like to take this?

Just so you know, i am not a mason (yet), and think of myself as a sympathetic observer. just thought you would like to know before anyone answers my question. got to know who your talking too here.

Stewart, you're planning on joining?
That's very honorable of you.

Not having been involved in the craft for very long, there is still volumes of things that I do not fully know yet.
It's not that I won't answer your question, I just know that I can not answer in a way that would satisfy your desire for knowledge.

Could a senior member please step forward and answer this gentleman's question please?

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
Can anyone shed light on the functions and role the Senior Deacon facilitates? Thank you in advance!

Duties of the Senior Deacon are many, from the Monitorial standpoint (what is publicly available, at least in my Grand Lodge's jurisdiction) is that the Senior Deacon is in charge of the Altar, and the Great Lights under the direction of the Master. The SD is also responsible for the ballot, and must ascertain that ballots of both colors are available. He is to maintain dignity, humility, and grace in office, as his position is midway in the line of progression.

Obviously there are duties beyond this in the Ritual, but those details do not fall under the scope of Monitorial disclosure.

This was answered while I was typing, sorry.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by Masonic Student]

Thank you Wu for helping my question along. This is a good example of my 'Open and Honest' observation of freemasonry; you hear and see all over the place how evil and corrupt mason's are, then go out in your community and talk to some of these folks and they are the most helpful, honest, and real people you encounter.

A good metaphor would be if someone told you Hawaii was a cold, dry, inhospitable place that no one in thier right mind would want to go to, then you go to the island yourself and find s beautiful warm beach.

We must put ourselves into the worlds we question so we can form ideas from our own expierence instead of the expierence of another. At some point we must CHOOSE what we believe, and nothing makes that choosing easier than expierence.

Just some background on myself, for a solid four years I have been researching Freemasonry. At first it was the spooky 'they are out to get you stuff'. But still continuing my quest i have found many of my beliefs and expierences are congruent to the ideals of Masonry. Gradually my opinion of the Craft has changed, landing me currently in the view that Freemasonry is only as good or as bad as the people in it. And as with any group consisting of millions of people, there is no cookie-cutter mold labeled 'freemason'. Freemasons are as diverse as us, quite simply, because they are us, come from the same nieghborhoods, attend the same schools, laugh, cry, and question, just like all of us.

It is like any other tool. It is all what you do with it. A hammer cannot build a house by itself. It take an idea, a design, and an intention, all three of which can only be grasped in the Hearts of men.

Look around you, chances are most things you look at started as an idea in someone's mind. Many of our greatest accomplishments could never have left the mind of the beholder without Freemasonry.

And to those who may attack me.....
So now it rests with You. What is your grand design? and can masonry help you? ask yourself this before you dare to critique my expierence.

It is ironic that masons get blamed for lots of conspiracy stuff because those who study that sort of thing enough eventually realize that masons are the good guys...and join.