Who are the heroes and zeros of Ufology?

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by logramuda

My hero is that mysterious BRANTON guy.

Branton isn't really mysterious. His name is Bruce Alan Walton and he shortened his name to do exactly what he's done with you - create mystery!

It's also implied that he needs to remain anonymous because, should his true identity be revealed, his life would be in danger because of the 'facts' he reveals! He's like a small scale David Icke!

Because of this, in my book he's a zero... sorry!

HELLO, I'm new here & just practicing my quoting.

I was just saying it's good reading.



What do you guys mean by "HERO" anyway?

Hero of UFO homework? Good Grades? Least suspected to Say something I'll disagree
with? Most likely to act like a Funeral Director.

Let's face it.
If aliens are real, All belief systems are DONE!
How the hell do you proceed?

Every UFO researcher is GUESSING!!!!!!!

GUESSING!!!!!

Main Entry: 1guess
Pronunciation: 'ges
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English gessen, perhaps of Scandinavian origin; akin to Norwegian & Swedish gissa to guess, Middle Dutch gissen, gessen, Old Norse geta to get, guess -- more at GET
transitive verb
1 : to form an opinion of from little or no evidence
2 : BELIEVE, SUPPOSE

Hero --- John Lear

Zero --- David Icke

I'd like apologize for my last response on this thread.

I came across exactly how I thought I never would.
Threads are real bad for absorbing sub-conscious thought.
In some wierd way.......make's you learn how to talk to people again.

Anyway, It made me sound more like a skeptic, and I know that's not true.

I wouldn't be on ATS if I didn't.

SORRY.

....I like John Lear. He doesn't sell DVD's for $35.00

[edit on 8-4-2007 by logramuda]

www.ufowatchdog.com
for an extraordinary classification of ufo characters.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by Orion437]

Originally posted by Orion437
www.ufowatchdog.com
for an extraordinary classification of ufo characters.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by Orion437]

Lol, what is this a joke?
Just looked at this ufowatchdog website and it's obviously a James Randi UFO skeptics site (or it's a Stanton Friedman site because he's the only UFO researcher on the 'ufo hall of fame' page) where it's got every known UFO researcher out there on the 'ufo hall of shame' list!


PS -- oh, ok. This can't be a Stanton Friedman site because it's also got Jacques Vallee on the 'hall of fame' list. Stanton doesn't like Vallee either.


[edit on 9-4-2007 by Palasheea]

My List...

UFO Saints of the highest order:

Karla Turner (Genuine, Brave, Dead)
Phil Schneider (Genuine, Brave, Dead)
William Cooper (Genuine, Brave, Dead)
Paul Benewitz (Genuine, Brave, Dead)
Branton (Genuine, Almost Dead)
Thomas Castello (Genuine, Dead or alias.)


Heroes:

George Noory (Genuine, patriot)
A.T.S. dot com
John Lear (Agent, some interesting contributions)
David Icke (Interesting, well researched, top notch presenter)
Commander "X" (Interesting)
Jaime Maussan (Genuine)
Lt. Col Charles Halt (Genuine)
Jeff Rense (Genuine)
Travis Walton (Genuine)
Texe Mars (A tad too preachey, well researched)
John Carpenter (Watch "They live".....again)
George Knapp (Brave)
Chris Carter : Fox Mulder / Dana Scully (Fictional, major exposure to general public of E.T.s though)


Political UFO Heroes:

Gen. Douglas MacArthur (Predicted it)
President Dwight D. Eisenhower (Wanted to expose it)
President John F. Kennedy (Tried to stop it)
President Ronald Reagan (Many public warnings of it)



Indirect Heroes:

Alex Jones (Needs no introduction, explains EVERYTHING else)


Undetermined:

Bob Lazar (Prob B.S., see what happened to "Saints of the highest order:" above)


Useless:

Steven Greer (Major Bummer too, he had momentum and credibility)


Harmful / Toxic:

Stan Friedman (CIA/HACK/Disinfo/Distraction)
J. Allen Hyneck (DOD)
Bruce Maccabee (DOD)
Gordon Cooper (NASA/Masonic/CIA)
Whitley Strieber (CIA)
Art Bell (Masonic/CIA)
Peter Jennings (CFR)
James Oberg (NASA/Disinfo)
Phillip Klass (WTF/allways wished they would snatch his a** out of a clear blue sky, in front of MANY witnesses)


Hip Deep in it... (may they burn in h*ll)

Dr. Edward Teller (Nuff said, what a monster)
Edgar Mitchell (NASA/CIA/Masonic/Luciferian)


Involved Paperclips:

"Nazis..... I hate these guys" -Dr. Jones

Dr. Herman Oberth (NASA/Thule)
Dr. Wernher von Braun (NASA/Thule)



[edit on 10-4-2007 by ivymike]

Originally posted by Palasheea

Originally posted by Orion437
www.ufowatchdog.com
for an extraordinary classification of ufo characters.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by Orion437]

Lol, what is this a joke?
Just looked at this ufowatchdog website and it's obviously a James Randi UFO skeptics site (or it's a Stanton Friedman site because he's the only UFO researcher on the 'ufo hall of fame' page) where it's got every known UFO researcher out there on the 'ufo hall of shame' list!

PS -- oh, ok. This can't be a Stanton Friedman site because it's also got Jacques Vallee on the 'hall of fame' list. Stanton doesn't like Vallee either.


[edit on 9-4-2007 by Palasheea]

There are almost 20 ufo researchers in the hall of fame, i dont understand your point.

Ivymike! Good post but how can you put Gordon Cooper in the same catergory as that cynical toady Philip Klass?
Gordos a cool chap (or is there something I dont know?)
Cheers Karl

Originally posted by ivymike

Harmful / Toxic:

Stan Friedman (CIA/HACK/Disinfo/Distraction)

J. Allen Hyneck (DOD)
Bruce Maccabee (DOD)
Gordon Cooper (NASA/Masonic/CIA)
Whitley Strieber (CIA)
Art Bell (Masonic/CIA)
Peter Jennings (CFR)
James Oberg (NASA/Disinfo)
Phillip Klass (WTF/allways wished they would snatch his a** out of a clear blue sky, in front of MANY witnesses)

Pardon me? How, in the name of all that's holy, can you group men such as Friedman, Hynek, Maccabee & Copper as "Harmful/Toxic"? You are the only person I have ever come across who had anything negative to say about these men, all of whom are/were highly respected in the field and are/were
people of high ethical and moral character. I have to echo the question from the previous poster: What secrets do you know about these men that we do not?

Originally posted by ivymike
Harmful / Toxic:
Stan Friedman (CIA/HACK/Disinfo/Distraction)

If you can prove it, then please go ahead. I'd love to see the supporting evidence.

Otherwise, I'll dismiss it for being the unsubstantiated crap that it is.

Ok fair enough, some justification of my views of those individuals.

First Stanton,

1) "Cosmic Watergate" Ever since I was a child, he has been holding up for the camera the same stack of unknown documents with the magic marker edits, claiming a cover-up. Yah... No sh*t Stan, it takes a Ph.D. nuclear physicist to arrive at that conclusion? Takes up precious air time to lead the community and those with an interest in it, to believe that the level of information that is available to the UFO community is much LESS then what can be actually be found. Blah,Blah,Blah... Cash/Lantrum ect.. I agree with him totally, they witnessed a USAF nuclear powered aircraft, where exposed and died. Tragic for them.. no doubt... but in the grand scheme of UFOs... B.F.D. Move on and get to something that touches the real issues, because it HAS effected all mankind.

2) What does he do for REAL work with his advanced education? UFO documentaries?? What has he done in the past? And what will he continue to do in perpetuity... blah blah blah.. if mere mortal laymen can connect some of the dots, why can't he do even better with his superhuman intellect. More meat and potatoes please, I am getting too full of the appetizers.

3) Worked for AeroJet, Jack Parsons old stomping grounds.. Among others, GE, GM, TRW.. ect.. precisely those who have a VESTED INTEREST in keeping you in the dark, in debt and enslaved.

Bruce Maccabee, (somewhere I remember him being connected with naval optical systems / SDI Lasers), how convenient. Anyone that deep in the defense establishment who really believes in UFOs and is NOT on the "Inside" doesn't last long in their job, and certainly not long enough to participate in SDI, unless he IS on the inside.

J. Allen Hyneck. Oh come on... Mr. Blue Book himself, "it was only swamp gas"... and "The Air Force has not been hiding anything.." oh.. not getting anywhere with that approach.. let's try another..appeasement and disinformation. He doesn't even deserve to be called a UFO researcher in my book. He is a publicly admitted, professional debunker.

James Oberg : The ONLY person that I have ever seen that can watch NASA STS- XX videos and arrive at the ice crystals conclusion... unbelievable dumb or a paid asset.

Gordon Cooper, yah Gordo... If you REALLY care about us, why don't you speak up about what's REALLY at the top of the old pyramid at NASA. I used to look up to the folks at NASA as the apex of what applied knowledge could accomplish, that is until I discovered they are pumped to the gills with occultists, Satanists, Nazis, alchemists, one worlders and freemasons. Who knows what has been discovered,what has been hidden, what has been faked, and what has been accomplished. It will take much more then a statement to the U.N. before I believe one word that comes out of the mouth about alien life from anyone connected to the American space program.. and that's a national shame, because it is their DUTY to address such issues.

Finally...

Two important things the most of the above have in common....
1) Never touches at all on the harmful and traumatic nature of the abduction phenomena.
2) Never touches the subject of extraterrestrial bases / infiltration possibilities.

I am sorry, but I have no time for those who are talking heads, or have misplaced their heads, or who are a legend in their own minds. Most of those who have had intimate personal experiences with this subject, beyond a sighting of a distant light in the sky, do not have pleasant things to report. They are frightened, and they should be.

Others have addressed the REAL issues that effect our species at this time, and pulled no punches. They went wherever the evidence took them, and they DIED for it.

If you dare, go beyond the talking heads spewing the same safe "space brothers" garbage. The truth is out there...dig deeper, much deeper.... and you may find that it just might be to f**king horrible to comprehend.

Originally posted by ivymike
Ok fair enough, some justification of my views of those individuals.
First Stanton,
1) "Cosmic Watergate"...
2) What does he do for REAL work with his advanced education?...
3) Worked for AeroJet, Jack Parsons old stomping grounds.. Among others, GE, GM, TRW.. ect.. precisely those who have a VESTED INTEREST in keeping you in the dark, in debt and enslaved.

Just as I knew, your three reasons are all unsubstantiated garbage and only reflect your personal opinion - NOT fact.

None of that proves that Friedman is a CIA operative, like you claimed.

and only reflect your personal opinion - NOT fact.

Ahh.. yah Einstein, that's what this thread was soliciting....

If you want to be a cheerleader for Stanton, please by all means proceed... PERSONALLY, given his documented professional background and performance in fishing out the TRUTH, I would not buy a pack of cigarettes from him.

In case you forgot, he PLAYED an "Expert" in the UPN TV movie.

Alien Abduction:
Incident in Lake County

(Note: THIS copy is MISSING some cool footage; can't find the copy with Stanton in it yet, but ENOUGH of you saw this back in 98 to know he most definitely was : )

video.google.com...

A lot of viewers where frightened by this at first and there was a large public reaction (indeed the very point for making, and showing to a national prime time audience the movie in the first place, War of the worlds on the cheap, public reaction assessed, operation successful. )

Not something I would participate in if my true beliefs and adopted status of Grand respected pontiff of all things UFO relied directly and heavily on my personal creditability and integrity. When the viewers saw the credits at the end, and realized they had been "taken" on a cinematic ride.... huge numbers of complaints poured into UPN.

Poor Stanton was duped...

www.badmovieplanet.com...

"To try and give the McPherson's tape some credibility the program is interrupted several times by experts and other alien abductees to try and explain things. The McPherson film is creepily effective but completely falls apart during these interruptions by the experts. The actors in the staged film hold the bluff while the experts appear to be on the verge of laughing at us at any moment."

"The only exception is Stanton Friedman. Friedman is a nuclear physicist who was a regular on Art Bell's radio program before old Art got a little too preoccupied with the end of the world around Y2K. Friedman believes in the existence of extraterrestrials and has some interesting theories on why they're here and the effects of electro magnetism and microwaves on the human body.

Friedman was duped into being on the program not realizing he was the only real expert but holds no animosity towards the producers. He still believes what he believes."

Yah right-o, sure...this ufological superman was "duped"... On a UPN/Dick Clark production... Based on a PREVIOUSLY FILMED HOAX...

The original movie supposedly from 1984, also a cool abduction reproduction...

video.google.com...



Three possibilities...

1) Stanton WILL believe and get behind ANYTHING without close inspection. QUACK QUACK..

Or

2) Stanton is a shameless money and publicity hound. $$$CHA-CHING$$$

Or

3) Stanton PLAYED his assigned role in this successful physiological warfare operation to a tee, and was the critical deciding factor required for the audience to completely suspend disbelief...

In ANY of the three above, he is at best a used car salesman.. At worst.. Well I think I have already covered that.


I thought the point of this site was to deny ignorance, not to bask in it.. But if we must, I understand Sean Hannity is an honest and impartial presenter...


Side note: goto 1:31:35 and check out DICK Clark's logo... What is with these guys and penis warship symbology? (Look.. Not even that carefully, and you will see it.)

[edit on 12-4-2007 by ivymike]

[edit on 12-4-2007 by ivymike]

Originally posted by ivymike

J. Allen Hyneck. Oh come on... Mr. Blue Book himself, "it was only swamp gas"... and "The Air Force has not been hiding anything.." oh.. not getting anywhere with that approach.. let's try another..appeasement and disinformation. He doesn't even deserve to be called a UFO researcher in my book. He is a publicly admitted, professional debunker.

That is only partly correct.

You either omitted the other fundamental information through poor/lack of research,or maybe to help reinforce your stance.Possibly to try to give your post more credibillity by exposing who you believe to be bogus? I only speculate here,and dont wish to imply you had an ulterior motive,but whatever the reason,you failed to provide the complete picture.

I thought it was a well known fact to those who follow/study Ufology that Dr.Hyneck was not happy with the Air Force`s quick dismissal of the subject.I was mistaken.

Allow me to enlighten you.

Shortly after Blue Book was disbanded,Hyneck established CUFOS as he was convinced,during the later timeframe of Blue Book,that there was a very real phenomenon at work.

If you do some searching you will find that he actually doubted some of his original explanations.Infact his `Swamp Gas` explanations were later cause for some lighthearted jokes.


www.daviddarling.info...

www.project1947.com...

I also doubt your claims/opinion of Stanton Friedman is correct,although like others,i await solid information/proof to prove us wrong.That has not yet happened.

raidersnewsupdate.blogspot.com...

Its not the first time someone has accused Mr.Friedman of CIA involvement,probably wont be the last.But as i previously mentioned,several of us here are awaiting your damning evidence.
I must confess,i have reservations about certain aspects of what S.Friedman says,but have no justification in doubting his sincerity without decent proof.

And if you list David Icke as a hero......well,enough said.
So much for Scientific methodology.He is just one of many reasons that most Scientists unfortunately choose to ignore the subject.

You will also discover Jaimie Maussan is a sensationalist,i dont doubt he is convinced that the phenomenon is real.His heart is almost in the right place,but his head has a tendancy to make him promote total rubbish.This can be easily discovered after some research.Wether you want to believe it or not is another matter.

There are a few others on your Hero`s list which are very dubious,but this post isnt about picking apart your personal choices,it was to complete the picture on Dr.J.Allen Hyneck,also to cast doubt on your judgement of Stanton Friedman without any facts.And yes,both most certainly are Hero`s in my book,especially Dr Hyneck.

We both agree on Steven Greer.

Anyhow your entitled to your own opinions,im entitled to mine.Just remember,when one makes claims,you need to substantiate them to be taken seriously.

More Scientists,less charlatans please......


[edit on 12-4-2007 by Swamp Gas]

Originally posted by ivymike
Ahh.. yah Einstein, that's what this thread was soliciting....

Why are you calling me Einstein when I'm not? Keep up the name calling and the Moderators can read it and decide what to do with you. You're violating terms and conditions calling me names.

If you want to be a cheerleader for Stanton, please by all means proceed...
Three possibilities...
1) Stanton WILL believe and get behind ANYTHING without close inspection. QUACK QUACK..
2) Stanton is a shameless money and publicity hound. $$$CHA-CHING$$$
3) Stanton PLAYED his assigned role in this successful physiological warfare operation to a tee, and was the critical deciding factor required for the audience to completely suspend disbelief...

No, I am not his cheer leader. Friedman is as human as anyone else and he has flaws just like anyone else. I only cheerlead for me.

In any case, none of your reasons support your theory that Friedman is a CIA operative. So, it's all unsubtantiated opinion.

[edit on 13-4-2007 by tezzajw]

A name that is resounding in me is Steven Greer.And John Lear has given a lot of experimental evidence.

Originally posted by tezzajw, in response to ivymike's comments
In any case, none of your reasons support your theory that Friedman is a CIA operative. So, it's all unsubtantiated opinion.

Hi,

I don't want to step into the middle of your debate, but I just wanted to say that I think this type of issue illustrates very nicely the extremely thin dividing line between:
(1) "unsubstantiated opinion", and
(2) what sometimes passes as "evidence" within the UFO field.

For example, when Bill Cooper stated that Stan Friedman was "CIA all the way" was that an opinion or evidence? Did it really matter (given Cooper's credibility problems) that Cooper went on to assert that he had seen Naval Intelligence documents which give this researcher's name as an active intelligence agency asset?

Or, taking another example, when Nicholette Pavlevsky, a channeller, stated Nick Redfern was "an operative whose job it is to spread disinformation about government secrecy" was that an opinion or evidence? Does it matter that Nicholette asserted that this information had been received during 2005 from an extraterrestrial named "Baktar"?

Numerous other examples of the thin dividing line between "opinion", "assertions" and (weak) "evidence" can be found in the article (which, obviously, is not to be taken seriously) entitled "The Top 100 Real 'Men in Black'" link below:

ufoleague.blogspot.com...

Kind Regards,

Isaac Koi

Originally posted by ivymike


Heroes:


David Icke (Interesting, well researched, top notch presenter)

[edit on 10-4-2007 by ivymike]

I would like to know were you got your information from to ivymike. Why do you enjoy david icke? He's fringe for god sakes, he's not a mainstream ufo researcher. Oh well, i guess if your believ in the theory that the aliens are all evil and they like to put our soul into containers to prod us, whatever. It's kind of negative, morbid, and a little insane don't don't think. Try to look at your opinions again dude, there all hot air.

Isaac Koi, I don't know if I should be insulted or flattered that I am number 2 (alphabetically anyway) of the "100 Real Men in Black" at least they spelled my name right.

Who wrote that? I assume it's meant as a comedy piece but they sure did a lot of research listening to podcasts, etc...

If that's not meant as a gag the author is one of the least intelligent people on the planet!

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer
Who wrote that? I assume it's meant as a comedy piece but they sure did a lot of research listening to podcasts, etc...

What I love is that the COINTELPRO threats are listed as the Top 100, but that COINTELPRO also hires people to destroy the UFO community by alphabetical order!

I'm hoping joke, but some of the references make me think that the blogger thinks its for real. :shk: