John Titor fraud or not?

John Titor is a Fraud.

Remember, you're just a guy off the street.

(Note: Reference to poster above's signature is main argument of post.)

Yep. You added to the discussion meaningfully.

Originally posted by labasta
Somebody asked before if JT made any predictions that have proven to be untrue. Well, I haven't re-read the info but I clearly remember him saying that the next president would be an Abraham Lincoln type which tried to unite the people but failed. Well, did he mean the last election? Abraham Lincoln type sounds very John Kerry to me (at least in looks, rather than actions). (Why didn't he just say the name of the President instead of talking in hushed-like tones or riddles???)
Will John Kerry be running for the 2008 election? I don't think so, although you never know. When a candidate loses I don't recall that person ever running again, do you?
Maybe there will be an Abraham Lincoln type president in 2008, not in looks, but actions????
So this isn't a total disproof, but still it makes this prediction less likely than the pre-2004 elections.

The Lincoln bit was more than likely a reference to "John Titor's" knowledge of the Fourth Turning, which if you don't know is a book by William Strauss and Neil Howe (two Washington policy wonks) who have written a series of books outlining their theory of Anglo-American history. The theory is complicated and you can read about it at www.fourthturning.com, but basically it boils down to the idea that there are repeating cycles of generational types in English and now American history, and that there is a cycle of four "turnings" that ultimately cultimates in an era of crisis. The "crisis" is the fourth turning, and according to the theory we have or are about to enter one of these periods.

Previous fourth turnings in American history have brought the revolutionary war, the civil war and reconstruction, and the depression/WW II. According to the theory, a fourth turning is a period of national peril (either real or imagined), when power tends to revert to the federal government, civil liberties are curtailed, gender norms and sexual mores become more traditional, the draft is usually reinstated, and there is a significant risk of total war.

Each fourth turning begins with a precipitating event - a catalyst - and the general feeling among people who believe in the theory is that 9/11 was the catalyst for this fourth turning. (Incidentally, the catalyst for the last fourth turning was the stock market crash of 1929, and the catalyst for the fourth turning before that was Fort Sumter.)

But back to Lincoln. As I said, the Strauss and Howe theory of history rests in part on the idea of cycles of repeating generational types, and according to this idea the baby boomers - as a "prophet" generation - will play the same type of role that FDR's generation played in the depression/second world war, and Lincoln's generation played in the civil war. (Incidentally, generation x as a "nomad" generation will according to the theory play the same role as the lost generation in WWII, and generation y - kids born in the 1980s and 1990s - will as a "hero" generation play a similiar role to the so-called greatest generation as foot soldiers.)

From the time the book came out (in the late 1990s) until even today, there has been debate among fourth turning believers about what form this fourth turning will take. Would it be an internal or external conflict or both?

There aren't a whole lot of people into the theory today that believe there will be a civil war in this 4t, but a) it is extremely likely that whoever is responsible for the John Titor posts had read the Fourth Turning and based most of the predictions on the general theory (which is why Titor has this weird presience...his "predictions" are very likely wrong but they're also likely based on a general theory that does have some merit) and b) anyone making predictions about this fourth turning in late 2000, early 2001 would I think be more likely to predict an internal rather than external conflict, given the political divide in the country, and the apparent absence of any significant external threats.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by greenturtle]

[edit on 25-1-2005 by greenturtle]

[edit on 25-1-2005 by greenturtle]

That was the single most clear, concise, and useful argument against John Titor having been some rogue predictionist/time traveler I have ever heard.

Thank you. You get a Way Above vote, just for that.

Hi, just registered at the forums, I'm a norwegian guy who just recently came across the johntitor website. After reading the story and summing it all up, I'm like most others in here not able to make up my mind if he's a hoax or not. A lot of what he's been saying/predicting makes a lot of sense. But the fact that he said there are slight deviations from the timeline opens up for the acceptance of him predicting the wrong things.
The way he explains things makes it possible that even the smallest differences will change the course of the "big events" that he has been predicting (butterfly effect etc....)

Then again, reading today what he supposedly wrote in 2000-2001 is a little alarming, especially with what I read on wired.com yesterday.

From johntitor.com:

Do medical advances in 2036 have anything to do with genetics?

Again, I'm no expert. I believe there is a great deal of progress in
treating the cancer cells with modified viruses. So I guess the answer is yes.

www.wired.com...



Also the 100K he says will die overnight, is that a reference to the recent tsunami disaster? With the 2% timeline deviation it could be possible, allthouth that's a bit far-fetched, could be it tho.

Also the disturbances in the middle-east is pretty clear to me.

But the Mad-Cow disease... taken the time it takes to show up on tests (from what I heard) it would only be a matter of time, before it showed up in the US too. The first reports of MCD (or KJD if you will) was made in 1986.

So to sum it up...like people has said before it's all up to you if you believe or not. But the fact that he has some things pretty much pinned should account for more than the things he's been wrong about.

Personally, I think this story has too much info in it to just ignore, and besides it makes everything a little more interesting if you keep the option open that it might be true.

[Edited for URL to wired.com]

[edit on 15-2-2005 by WildDawg]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
John Titor is a Fraud.

I love how you back up your claims with facts.

-Chris

I'm not sure about John Titor. I'm leaning very far into believing it's true, while at the same time not fully admitting it.

The recent Tsunami killed a lot more than 100K, last time I checked it was at 250K and climbing. So we are left with several ideas.
1. John Titor is a hoax because he messed up here.
2. There is something else that will kill 100K
3. John Titor left this out.
4. It never happened in John Titor's timeline.
5. It happened in John Titor's timeline, but on a smaller scale.

I'm sure there are more possibilities, but that's what comes to mind.

As for his physics being WAY off... this could mean:
1. John Titor is a hoax because he messed up here.
2. John Titor didn't know much about Physics so he fudged it.
3. John Titor's universe has different physics.

Different physics?! O_O How can this be?! Well, John Titor said he wasn't travelling through time necessarily, rather jumping to alternate timelines that were similar. Aka: parellel dimensions. It's very possible that he over jumped somehow and landed in a dimension with different physics. Notice I said possible, not probable, don't bite my head off.

If John Titor is a hoax then why is he so accurate?:
1. John Titor is a hoax because... well he just is.
2. John Titor is real.
3. John Titor is an intelligent man that predicted world events by doing TONS of research and figuring out what would happen.
4. John Titor is some kinda prophet.


And for your added enjoyment here's a tidbit. Titor is shorthand for TIme TraveleR

after all this reading of John Titor, im getting a bit nervous about our future

chemtraills=100k? (shrug) thought I'd try lol


who knows where is good ole JT when you need him

Don't say that! We'll end up with a faker posting here!

Besides... I doubt he's gonna travel back in time just to clarify something. Especially considering we're in the last few years before full fledged civil war.


That is... if he is real.

100k deaths? isnt something supposed to possibly happen with smallpox this year estimating around 95k deaths, or more? hey if hes right about this and a civil war coming up, which i can see happening, due to all the war in iraq and rpeidential stuff going on... anyways if hes right about both these things, this is gunna be one hell of a ride for the future...

I personally believe he is a fraud, sure some of what he says has supposedly "come true" but his version of the future is strangely different. First off, everyone in his future seems to care about each other, and trying to set things right. In my point of view, how did everyone act after 9-11? They blamed everyone else, how can 30-50 years make a difference?Even if there was a nuclear war, everyone would bite each other's throats and it would be 9-11 all over again, except 50 times worse! At present day, things have not changed by that much from 50 years ago. the only thing that's a little different, is the african american race are more accepted. Even if bombs were dropped and earth in general had nuclear winters, the public or politicians would screw it up even worse. The people wouldn't do anything without "proof" and things would be even worse. The only real way things would be different, if humanity was reducated, not like what the nazi's did. But in a more "humane" setting. No death, no beating. Just another open to new ideas.

Originally posted by DerekpacIsAlive

Originally posted by Dmsoldier
yes but like i said,

is there anything that he has gotten wrong???

As much as I'd hate to say it (after spending a few month's trying so hard to prove he's a HOAX) I'd have to say no. I have not seen a thing that he has gotten wrong yet. Though, 100K dead overnight... I don't see that happening (and it hasn't yet that i know of)

december 26 2004

I say hoax, not fraud.

I haven’t read all of this thread (started but couldn’t be bothered to go through it all) but I do not feel that I have to because I am simply going to state my answer to the question - John Titor fraud or not?

In my humble opinion I feel this guy is a fraud -

Why would he do this??

Probably a very lonely middle-aged geek who still lives with his mum (or a long suffering wife) and in between "knocking one out" to Internet porn he spends hours making up garbage for gullible people to believe in. He was probably bullied at school and has retracted himself into his own fantasy world where no one can hurt him, and he is centre of attention.

What about the photographic evidence??

I was watching a documentary on Discory channel the other day (think it
Was called "ultimate flight sim" or something) Anyway, it was about these guys that are so into there flight sims that they have created there own cockpits with real military hardware in the bedrooms, some of this stuff looked really real and the equipment they used was not unsimilar to titors crapy little pictures except it was more believable. Titors pictures, of his time machine, looks like a load of old junk purchased from ebay and gaffer taped into his car!! He probably sits in it fantasizing about far away worlds that don’t exist.

Haven’t some of Titors predictions come true?? Like the Mini Black Holes??

Yeah??? So???

Look, making predictions about science is not that difficult...
I predict that...

One day they will land a man on mars
One day they will find a cure for cancer
One day we will have designer baby’s
Blah Blah Blah

All of these have a relatively good chance of coming true... Doesn’t make me a spaceman from the future does it!!!!

Star Trek has been making predictions for years but it aint down to Gene Roddenburry being a time traveller or some kind of mystic. No, they just looked at current science and guessed what direction it would go in. In some areas they got it right... Like the communications device, video phones, automatic doors and non-invasive surgery. All predicted in star trek during the 60's. Aint magic... just forward thinking!

To be honest I actually feel sorry for this Titor guy... I rekon you have to be a very sad individual to spend so many hours thinking up the story and collecting all the props to back up the story. What worries me is how gullible people can be. I could go on but I think some people would find my comments offensive and I have no wish to hurt anyone.

Probably a very lonely middle-aged geek who still lives with his mum (or a long suffering wife) and in between "knocking one out" to Internet porn he spends hours making up garbage for gullible people to believe in. He was probably bullied at school and has retracted himself into his own fantasy world where no one can hurt him, and he is centre of attention.

His legacy lasted 2 years, not hours. Way to insult someone immaturely, though.

What about the photographic evidence??

I was watching a documentary on Discory channel the other day (think it
Was called "ultimate flight sim" or something) Anyway, it was about these guys that are so into there flight sims that they have created there own cockpits with real military hardware in the bedrooms, some of this stuff looked really real and the equipment they used was not unsimilar to titors crapy little pictures except it was more believable.

So what does that have to do with Titor's pictures? Just because someone can make plane parts on T.V., doesn't mean that John Titor is a fraud.

Titors pictures, of his time machine, looks like a load of old junk purchased from ebay and gaffer taped into his car!! He probably sits in it fantasizing about far away worlds that don’t exist.

Again with the immature insulting. You seem like you can pull off a hoax better than John Titor, so lets see you do so.

Haven’t some of Titors predictions come true?? Like the Mini Black Holes??

Yeah??? So???

Look, making predictions about science is not that difficult...
I predict that...

One day they will land a man on mars
One day they will find a cure for cancer
One day we will have designer baby’s
Blah Blah Blah

All of these have a relatively good chance of coming true... Doesn’t make me a spaceman from the future does it!!!!

Predicting that we will land on a moon is a little different from predicting that CERN is going to create a microsingularity in their lab with out destroying matter. If making predictions are so easy, make one. C'mon, do it.

Star Trek has been making predictions for years but it aint down to Gene Roddenburry being a time traveller or some kind of mystic. No, they just looked at current science and guessed what direction it would go in. In some areas they got it right... Like the communications device, video phones, automatic doors and non-invasive surgery. All predicted in star trek during the 60's. Aint magic... just forward thinking!

This was the best part of your post. Again, predicting Mad Cow and microsingularities is a little more than "forward thinking." And he never said anything about the advancement of technology, except that the Internet was faster.

To be honest I actually feel sorry for this Titor guy... I rekon you have to be a very sad individual to spend so many hours thinking up the story and collecting all the props to back up the story. What worries me is how gullible people can be. I could go on but I think some people would find my comments offensive and I have no wish to hurt anyone.

It take a little more than a few hours to come up with a brilliant hoax like that. You can't discredit someone without real facts. Your opinion was all based on, "Yeah, I can make predictions, too. And those pictures looked fake." If you want to form an opinion, use facts.

-Chris

Legend... sorry but i think you have been watching to much Doctor Who. If you believe the man then... well... im not gonna insult you. Personly i think anyone with the IQ of a nat will no this guy is a fraud. What makes people so desperate to believe garbage like this?
this man has done nothing to prove he is from the future. All he has to do is name some time and dates for upcoming major event (like the pope's death) and it would give him so much more cred. Instead we get a fancy tale about what the future holds and are all expected to believe.


Sorry, just dont wash!

Here is a nice link for you that shows how many of John Titors claims have come true... it is wikipedia!

en.wikipedia.org...

This says it all for me....

from...

en.wikipedia.org...

"Dr. Robert Brown, a physicist at Duke University analysed the science involved in Titor's time travel explanations and states it is impossible, both in theory and practice. He alludes that Titor's story plagiarizes older science novels such as Alas, Babylon and Michio Kaku's Hyperspace to construct his time travelling stories. He concludes his critique by suggesting that people are extremely gullible to believe the plausibility of Titor's time travel and stories of a post-appocalypse world.

Titor's story also shows similarities to the plot of the 1995 movie 12 Monkeys, and to a fictional timeline for a role-playing game"


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Titor claims that he is not hear to "prove" he is from the future but to collect an outdated computer that they need in the future.... Yawn... ok... You can build a time machine but you still need an IBM computer from 1975???? Even if that is true why didn’t he just lay low, collect what was needed and bugger off "Back to the future" ??? I say it again... If I you are going to make such amazing claims why not back it up with real times and dates... oh I forgot the timeline might be altered slightly... how convenient!!

I am from the planet Zoglan 3 in the Youdumbtwat constellation. I came to your planet because, although we have mastered faster than light travel, we do not have mountain bikes. Therefore my mission is to collect a mountain bike and take it back to my world. Oh… by the way… I cant be bothered to prove my claims im just hear for the bike. But I will let you know that in the future the pixie queen will be prime minister of Britain and declare war on New Zealand. This will destroy the world.

lol i like it. It really is kinda sad to see how many people trust some guy who made claims on a message board... ON A MESSAGE BOARD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!