Tax Religion

one question to throw out there: if all religion is tax-exempt, should the church of the flying spaghetti monster be tax-exempt and why or why not?

I believe I will chime on this one:
This is a tough topic, and deserves careful thought. I have talked with some of the different religious groups who do provide services, and the reasons for accepting grants or not to are actually valid.
The reason not to tax a religious group is because of church and state, however, as with the current trend, I do believe the days of those of tax exempt is over. Too many times where those who are professing religion uses their positions to either abuse their position or to take a political stand and sway the voters. That would be reason to remove the tax exempt status.

I live in a nice, small neighborhood that just happens to house four major churches within minutes of my home and less than a minute apart. These are 25 mph roads here. People have to park their bloody cars on the side of the road because they can't find parking space. And these rabid church-goers (LoL) jeopardize my life and theirs with their reckless driving and parking. Then they cross the street without looking. I have to get to work, I don't have time to deal with incompetents that early in the morning.

God has been turned into a product just like anything ells that’s for sale. It’s sad but it’s true. And with some churches bringing in millions in profit and not using the excess money to help people then it should be taxed and I see no reason that it shouldn’t

Originally posted by laiguana
And these rabid church-goers (LoL) jeopardize my life and theirs with their reckless driving and parking.

I won't defend the driving and parking habits of those people.

And while I will never begrudge you your right to be annoyed with disrespectful drivers invading your neighborhood, I will still say that it has nothing to do with their church paying taxes.

All those people driving and parking your neighborhood into oblivion do, after all, pay their taxes.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
And with some churches bringing in millions in profit and not using the excess money to help people then it should be taxed and I see no reason that it shouldn’t

The Government agrees with you. If a church makes millions in profit, doesn't reinvest it in a charitable way, and the government finds out about it...that church will be prosecuted. (SEE Jim Bakker)

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
The reason not to tax a religious group is because of church and state, however, as with the current trend, I do believe the days of those of tax exempt is over. Too many times where those who are professing religion uses their positions to either abuse their position or to take a political stand and sway the voters. That would be reason to remove the tax exempt status.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

i don't know how taxing a profitable religious group would be violating that

religions should have to apply for charitiable status just like any other group

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
religions should have to apply for charitiable status just like any other group

They DO.

Here's a little clip from the IRS website, talking about section 501(c)(3) and the groups that are included as charitable organizations. Religions aren't afforded any benefits that aren't offered to scientific organizations or even amateur sports competitions...

The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and the preventing cruelty to children or animals.

The catch, as we've discussed already, is this:

In addition, it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Many churches fail to comply with this and, as a result, should probably be forced to "give Caesar what is Caesar's."

well, it's also true that religions in general are exempt just for being officially recognized as religions

the process is slightly different

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
well, it's also true that religions in general are exempt just for being officially recognized as religions

I'm going to have to call you out on that statement.

The terms "religions in general" and "officially recognized" are mutually exclusive.

Being "officially recognized" is the result of "applying for official recognition", isn't it?

Originally posted by Essedarius
I'm going to have to call you out on that statement.

The terms "religions in general" and "officially recognized" are mutually exclusive.

Being "officially recognized" is the result of "applying for official recognition", isn't it?

yeah, they have to apply, but if they're an offshoot of an established organization (ie the catholic church) they don't have to re-apply. it's really not that hard to be recognized as an official religion if you're a branch of christianity, islam, or judaism. hell, even scientology got official religion status

there is also no re-evaluation at all.

and again, that's tax-exemption purely because they are RELIGIONS, not because they do charitable work.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
...and again, that's tax-exemption purely because they are RELIGIONS, not because they do charitable work.

Wrong.

According to the LAW, they are given a tax exemption purely because they do charitable work...religion has NOTHING to do with it.

You could start an amateur softball team because you want to tour China and ACCORDING TO THE LAW the government would grant you the same tax benefits that they grant the Catholic Church.

alright, i'll drop the point on application

the problem is that these groups gets tax exemption when most of their work ISN'T charitable. and then they use their services as recruitment tools.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the problem is that these groups gets tax exemption when most of their work ISN'T charitable. and then they use their services as recruitment tools.

Are you talking about Amateur Athletic Groups or Churches?

If you're talking about Amateur Athletic Groups then I could not agree with you more.

If you're talking about Churches...well...damn madness, I don't know what kind of churches you used to go to but maybe you and I could get together sometime and burn them to the ground.

I can't help but think you are stereotyping all religions based on what you're watching on the Trinity Broadcast Network.

Originally posted by Essedarius
I can't help but think you are stereotyping all religions based on what you're watching on the Trinity Broadcast Network.

no, i'm actually basing it off of looking at the average catholic parish, various presbyterian churches, a few southern baptist ones, basically a general grab bag of christianity. most of them turn a considerable profit. and once more, most of their activities involve preaching.

i only know 1 mosque well enough to say anything and they're currently in debt and i don't know any hebrew places of worship initmately enough to tell anything (mainly a distance issue on this one)

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
... i'm actually basing it off of looking at the average catholic parish, various presbyterian churches, a few southern baptist ones, basically a general grab bag of christianity. most of them turn a considerable profit.

Well...we're at an impasse I guess.
My experiences oppose yours like day does night.

These Forbes 500 churches you've been to...I assume you got a look at their ledgers or something. How do you know that they were turning "a considerable profit?"

I really don't know why some of you would bother with the witless. They believe their non belief in God is that they have no God, tsk tsk tsk, they have a god too. Read thier posts, seething hatred and heartlesness surely has a god too. They are indoctrinated into the godless communist democracy teachings of rewriting history and telling them to serve man and not God. I think one of our great founding fathers talked about those that would not be governed by God, I believe it had something to do with being RULED BY TYRANTS. So shall it be, so it is. It is quite clear that most of them can not even read or grasp simple concepts so to spend day after day trying to teach them the error of their ways is not going to work. They are serving their god and they are serving him well. In a republic the INDIVIDUAL is the master of his life, based upon one premise, do no harm to others. In this democracy, they live by the rule of the majority upon the minority. They serve a god and his name is mammon.

One more little secret that will drive them nuts, 99% of churches are GOVERNMENT CHURCHES, that is why they are tax exempt. Real houses of God are not government churches and pay taxes on INCOME and or PROFIT. So much for seperation of church and state in their feeble little minds. 503c churches are GOVERNMENT CHURCHES BY DEFINITION..

The question to all you christians out there is this, is your church a 503c? Does your church bend to th will of MAN or to the will of God? Naybe you should ask your pastor/preacher next time you go.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I really don't know why some of you would bother with the witless. They believe their non belief in God is that they have no God, tsk tsk tsk, they have a god too.

to facilitate this discussion i'd like to point out that my face is expressing the "not this s___ again" expression.

Read thier posts, seething hatred and heartlesness surely has a god too.

hatred?
heartlessness?
got any example to back these hateful and heartless slurs?

They are indoctrinated into the godless communist democracy teachings of rewriting history and telling them to serve man and not God.

....godless communist democracy.
a redundancy followed by an oxymoron.... i never thought i'd see the day.
and sorry, rewriting history is the job of the religious, we don't do that. we RESTORE history.

I think one of our great founding fathers talked about those that would not be governed by God,

really? which one of the deists was it? or was it the good ol' atheist patriot tom paine (coolest last name ever, by the way)?

I believe it had something to do with being RULED BY TYRANTS.

really... nice slur there to
we want tyranny because we disagree with you and all you have is some claim that someone (who you can't identify) made a similar slur.

So shall it be, so it is. It is quite clear that most of them can not even read or grasp simple concepts so to spend day after day trying to teach them the error of their ways is not going to work.

more with the attacks, and yet no examples.

They are serving their god and they are serving him well.

we have no god, no matter what your delusions tell you.

In a republic the INDIVIDUAL is the master of his life, based upon one premise, do no harm to others. In this democracy, they live by the rule of the majority upon the minority. They serve a god and his name is mammon.

really? we live in a country where the RELIGIOUS MAJORITY imposes on the NON-RELIGIOUS minority, you're right.

One more little secret that will drive them nuts, 99% of churches are GOVERNMENT CHURCHES, that is why they are tax exempt. Real houses of God are not government churches and pay taxes on INCOME and or PROFIT. So much for seperation of church and state in their feeble little minds. 503c churches are GOVERNMENT CHURCHES BY DEFINITION..

you really can't back up any of your claims and... yet another defaming remark

The question to all you christians out there is this, is your church a 503c? Does your church bend to th will of MAN or to the will of God? Naybe you should ask your pastor/preacher next time you go.

and maybe you should actually resort to arguments instead of attacks