The "We Support the Troops, but not the War" Truth

How did this stray away from supporting the troops? We need to be talking about now, not what happened in the past! If you want to march against the war, thats fine with me, just don't burn the American flag, or drag it on the ground, that is very disrespectful to this country. Also don't burn any sort of object that can be thought of as a soldier. These people fight for your rights to be free! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when you cross the line, you need to suffer the consequences!!!

This is pathetic really, these protesters must not understand the basic logic of being as free as were allowed to be. With power comes war, you cannot be free without war, maybe they'd like it if we did have no war, and layed down for all other countries in the world to run over us. Its easy to hold up a sign and burn a flag when your over here, they are basically spitting in the face of every united states soldier, and I dont care if you agree with them or not, that is the truth, they may as well be spitting on the coffins of all the soldier who have died in this war, its a shame that so many people are so blind.

PS: Im fine with protesting I really am, its completely in the rights they have as citizens... but seeing them burn the flag, and a soldier's uniform is just disgusting... im sorry if my post above offended anyone, it was more of an emotional post than anything.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by Chosen_Breed]

Originally posted by Chosen_Breed
PS: I'm fine with protesting I really am, its completely in the rights they have as citizens... but seeing them burn the flag, and a soldier's uniform is just disgusting... I'm sorry if my post above offended anyone, it was more of an emotional post than anything.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by Chosen_Breed]

Is it possible that the more radical protesters were actually agent provocateurs of the government to discredit the peace movement.

This was common practice during the "Nam" protests. Using these same kind of tactics.

www.skolnicksreport.com...

Guys,

As a 17 year vet of the USN, having only got out in July of 06, I have a little to add.

I remember 9/11. I had just got back from a 6 month deployment, and was 3 days into a well-deserved leave. I was recalled to my ship, and watched in horror as America demanded revenge. We had pro-war protestors at our gates, with signs that read "Go Get'em Guys" and similar. It was crap, because we did not even know who was responsible yet.

Now, people want to whine that "our boys" are dieing over there. Well guess what... Soldiers die in a war. Sent by the people, to do dirty work that needed to be done to satisfy our nation's blood-thirsty desire for revenge. Should have considered that fact before screaming for vengance.

As far as the protesters dragging flags or depicting soldiers badly, It is a constitutional right to express yourself. As a real Americian, I would gladly give my life for the freedom of Americians to burn a flag. That is what makes us a great country. It allows us to have BBS's that say the system sucks.

That's my 2 cents.

BadMFMike

Originally posted by BadMFMike
Guys,

As a 17 year vet of the USN, having only got out in July of 06, I have a little to add.

I remember 9/11. I had just got back from a 6 month deployment, and was 3 days into a well-deserved leave. I was recalled to my ship, and watched in horror as America demanded revenge. We had pro-war protestors at our gates, with signs that read "Go Get'em Guys" and similar. It was crap, because we did not even know who was responsible yet.

Now, people want to whine that "our boys" are dieing over there. Well guess what... Soldiers die in a war. Sent by the people, to do dirty work that needed to be done to satisfy our nation's blood-thirsty desire for revenge. Should have considered that fact before screaming for vengance.

As far as the protesters dragging flags or depicting soldiers badly, It is a constitutional right to express yourself. As a real Americian, I would gladly give my life for the freedom of Americians to burn a flag. That is what makes us a great country. It allows us to have BBS's that say the system sucks.

That's my 2 cents.

BadMFMike

Thanks BadMFMike, well said! It is unfortunate as people make the call to war without really thinking about the consequences. Now we are stuck in a situation that really had nothing to do with 911. I live here where the protest took place, and had discovered that it was a group of less than 10 individuals doing these things in a crowd over 15,000. Some of the more ignorant posts in this thread have alleged that the entire crowd was taking part in these actions - simply untrue! Personally, I am 100% against the war, however I dont approve of dragging a flag on the ground nor burning the effigy of a soldier - however as you said, these are examples of free speech. We dont have to like it, but we do have to allow it to happen.

I just wish that the rest of the anti war crowd wasn't labeled with the actions of a VERY SMALL handful of people, individuals really. These threads are created with the sole intent of lumping everyone that disagrees with the war into one, US hating group - and it works! Just listening to some of the pro war posts and their hateful rantings against the anti war crowd is enough to make me sick. Being anti war does NOT EQUAL being anti troop!

That stuff was pretty funny, if you ask me. Well, some of it.

Like the aceholes sign, THAT had me rolling. And the one about bombing Bush's F-ing house. The impeach the gringos shirt was funny too.

Thanks for the laugh, Grady.

Apparently we're not allowed to express disgust at anti-war protesters without being accused of making generalizations or using it as an opportunity to make all protesters look bad.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Apparently we're not allowed to express disgust at anti-war protesters without being accused of making generalizations or using it as an opportunity to make all protesters look bad.

Well, if the shoe fits.... Just look at this thread for example. The whole way this thread was written was to make it seem as though the actions of a small few were actually the actions of everyone else. That is the problem with people who are mostly for the war, they lump everything in together. This thread wasn't discussing the people who spoke at that rally, nor the positive things that came out of it, nor the 15,000 people who were there to make a peaceful statement. Instead, it focused on the actions of a few individuals not even part of the crowd and made it seem as though everyone condoned that behavior - which is false.

So, here is your chance. Please, by all means express your disgust at me - an anti war protestor. Please also list your reasons for having such "disgust". I am really curious to hear them. Also, please list your reasons why you are for the war. Remember, there were no WMD's found and Iraq had zip, zero, nada to do with 911.

I am waiting.

What are you waiting for again?

I don't support the war or the troops who fight the war, too many evil crimes have been commited by those troops against innocent people in iraq and afganistan. And when in the cold light if day, the troops are asked to account for what crimes they did commit it isn't enough for them to blame Bush or Rumsfeld, they are adults who know what they are doing

So...because a couple people commit crimes, you condemn them all? Some internet users commit crimes, so you must be a murderer.

Originally posted by Johnmike
So...because a couple people commit crimes, you condemn them all? Some internet users commit crimes, so you must be a murderer.

well, this thread is doing the same thing with people who don't support the war. some of them burn people in effigy, so they must all be scumbags.

Originally posted by Johnmike
So...because a couple people commit crimes, you condemn them all? Some internet users commit crimes, so you must be a murderer.

Hysterical nonsense.
The troops in Iraq know that they are invading another country, they know that USA and Britain defied the UN to start the illegal war, they know that Bush and Blair lied about Iraq having WMD's, they know that thousands of innocent people who have already suffered enough were being killed and tortured, raped etc as a result of the invasion. That is why i don't support either the troops or the war. I never said I condemn all troops as murderers, that was your remark, I said I don't support them.

Originally posted by BadMFMike
It is a constitutional right to express yourself. As a real Americian, I would gladly give my life for the freedom of Americians to burn a flag. That is what makes us a great country.

And this is what it's all about.

So much for those who say they support our country and what it stands for (until, of course they are "offended" by something). BadMFMike, Thank you for your service and thank you for reminding us all what our soldiers fight for.

Whether you all support the troops or not, they have fought and are fighting for our freedoms. Freedom of expression being one of them. Approve of the message or not, but the freedom to express one's self (even if it's to burn a flag or a soldier in effigy!) is a basic right of our free country.

Oh, yeah, and not all war protesters are alike... Because one burns a soldier in effigy doesn't mean they all do or would.

I don't believe they are fighting for YOUR freedoms, how does fighting people in Iraq make YOU more free???
Anyhow the troops in Iraq are really fighting for the big businesses who profit from the wars. They are definitely not fighting for freedom. Think about the whole war situations. The american people and the world were lied to about the reasons for war in Iraq (same in britain), the public in USA and Britian mostly don't support the war and want the troops home, most of the troops don't want to fight the war and want to go home, the Iraqi people don't want the troops there. So if most people don't want the troops in Iraq, then who exactly are they fighting for? They are fighting for the big corporations who are making billions of dollars from all sorts of contracts.
If they military were really controlled by the people they wouldn't be in Iraq, and the occupation would have ended a long time ago. As a moderator on ATS you must have seen a huge amount of research that shows the US government is controlled by big businesses, you most likely know that 9/11 was an inside job, and you certainly know that you were lied to about Iraq having WMD's, and you still believe the troops are in iraq fighting for Freedom.


Harold Pinter, 2005 Nobel Prize winner for literature wrote a poem about the war,


God Bless America

Here they go again,
The Yanks in their armoured parade
Chanting their ballads of joy
As they gallop across the big world
Praising America's God.

The gutters are clogged with the dead
The ones who couldn't join in
The others refusing to sing
The ones who are losing their voice
The ones who've forgotten the tune.

The riders have whips which cut.
Your head rolls onto the sand
Your head is a pool in the dirt
Your head is a stain in the dust
Your eyes have gone out and your nose
Sniffs only the pong of the dead
And all the dead air is alive
With the smell of America's God.

www.haroldpinter.org...

Bill Hicks "Pick Up the Gun"
video.google.co.uk...

[edit on 27-3-2007 by golddragnet]

Originally posted by golddragnet
I don't believe they are fighting for YOUR freedoms, how does fighting people in Iraq make YOU more free???

I said they have fought (as in past tense) and are fighting (in some people's minds, the soldiers in Iraq ARE fighting for our freedoms.)

As a moderator on ATS you must have seen a huge amount of research that shows the US government is controlled by big businesses,

I'm no longer a moderator but moderators don't have any more access to information than we do.

But you're right, I do know that 9/11 was an inside job, and that we were lied to about Iraq having WMD's, etc.

and you still believe the troops are in iraq fighting for Freedom.

No. I don't. But there are many people including soldiers in Iraq who do believe that's what they're fighting for, so that's what THEY are fighting for. That's WHY they're fighting. They believe in their hearts that if they don't fight against terrorism, that we will lose our freedoms to terrorists and Muslim extremists.

I hope that's clearer.

Apologies for my misunderstanding.

I can understand that some of the troops do believe they are fighting for freedoms, they would have it drilled into them that they are the good guys and killing Iraqis makes USA safer, however, unless they have been totally brainwashed they will be able to see that Iraq doesn't have any WMD's, they will have seen along time ago that they Iraqi people are absolutely no threat whatsoever to USA and they will have figured that they aren't fighting for any kind of freedoms. Many of them will surely realise that they are securing the oilfields for the big businesses and securing other huge business contracts for the multinationals.

To be honest I think most of the troops are fighting for their paycheck, they have to realise that it is wrong to be invading another country and it isn't doing anything for USA's freedom, in fact it is doing the opposite, it is only making more enemies.

ps, why did you abdicate the mods role?

[edit on 27-3-2007 by golddragnet]

Okay, so, you want everyone in Iraq to get up and leave right now?

You would so hypocritally condemn the very same people you label as victims to death?

Does anyone remember when the call for war first started? It WMD's and we were all in imminent danger, go buy duct tape and plastic to make a safe room in case of attack, it was one scare tactic after another, then they also constantly brought up 911 in every speech trying to say Iraq had something to do with 911, then we were told that another reason for invading Iraq was to save the poor people of Iraq, the beloved civilians.

And then there was the great coalition, a few countries that joined and then there were some countries that whole contribution was a letter saying they agreed with us, note some have even taken that back, then there was the offer of the monkeys, but our politicians who supported the war actually talked about the great coalition with a straight face. LOL

Now we know there was never any WMD's, no connection of Iraqi's to 911 and the civilians we went there to save, well over 650,000 Iraqi civilans are now dead, Saddam is no longer in power and is dead as is many of his cohorts. We have lost 3244 soldiers and over 25,000 are wounded, we have maxed out our money and now we are running a huge dificit and the people of Iraq want us gone like yesterday. We are more or less hated by many in other countries and seen as war mongers.

Studies done by our own government says we should leave but yet we stay. Why?

IMO we were duped into going to war so that we could get control of the oil and then there is the robbery of the American taxpayers by companies that have gotten no bid contracts and have delivered shoddy goods and overcharged us all. We were told originally that the oil in Iraq would pay for this war, well weren't we, whose paying, you and me?

As for the military personnel who have volunteered to serve their country and have heeded the call, the majority are not to blame in any way. Yes a few have committed crimes but the majority have tried to serve the best they can in a really horrific situation. They are young and when they make mistakes one should first look at the leadership before laying all the blame at their feet, which is what usually happens. In any war there is going to be war crimes, just like in any society there is going to be crime.

I am always amazed that most of the very people who support this war and say they support the soldiers will be the first to excuse Bush for tax cuts on veterans benefits.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by goose]

Have to love the 1st Amendment. You are free to make an ass of yourself. Do I agree with their choice of freedom? No. Do I think they got their point across. Hell yeah.

I wrote this in another thread, and thought I would post here as well, what I think patriotism is...

~A true patriot is devoted, not to government per se, but to good government, which by definition is limited constitutional government, and to the freedoms of individuals as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and secured to them by the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

~Recognizes that occupants of public offices love power and are prone to abuse it and that our Founders desired, above all else, to secure to the people in a written Constitution every right that they had wrested from autocratic rulers while they were struggling for the right of self-rule and freedom.

~Recognizes that all rights come from God and are therefore unalienable (i.e., they cannot be taken away) and that violation of these rights by government is nothing less than tyranny.

~Understands that the supreme duty of government as envisioned by our Founding Fathers is to defend the Constitution and to oppose all enactments that violate the supreme law of the land.

~Understands that it is improper to approve funds for any federal agency, program, or activity that is not specifically authorized by the Constitution.

~Understands that it is never the proper role of government to take money from one wage earner and transfer that wealth to another.

~Understands that the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the Constitution and that it may not properly be infringed upon or denied.

~Recognizes that only Congress has the constitutional authority to declare war.

Just my .02