Berkley Professor = Roswell WAS weather balloon, and here's why!

danx it does come down to who you want to believe or rather what statement you want to believe.

1947 Mac Brazel description to the roswell daily record " large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"

or his 1980 accounts of magical materials after marcel came out with his story. Which do you think is more reliable?

Originally posted by yeti101
danx it does come down to who you want to believe or rather what statement you want to believe.

1947 Mac Brazel description to the roswell daily record " large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"

or his 1980 accounts of magical materials after marcel came out with his story. Which do you think is more reliable?

After the G-Men got to Brazel and threatened him with all sorts of nasty stuff, his 1947 story was fabricated.

As time passed, the threat of the G-Men would have had far less impact upon him. He's probably more likely to tell the real story, knowing that he doesn't have as much time left to tell it.


Edit: From 'Crash at Corona' By Stan Friedman. Brazel found the wreckage on July 3 with seven year old, Dee Proctor, who was a son of his neighbour. Dee enjoyed riding horses with Brazel. Sorry for any dis-info stating that Brazel found it with his own son.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by tezzajw]

im aware of the stories that appeared after 1978 saying brazel was intimidated by the military but there is zero evidence of this at the time.

In fact brazel attended the military press conference with a reporter from a local paper confirmed by the editor and the reporter himslef- not the military personel suggested by stories after 1978.

just woundering but does it say any where on his site that no one has ever properly seen nemesis ?

Originally posted by Vixion
just woundering but does it say any where on his site that no one has ever properly seen nemesis ?

Yes, it's just a theory. But Muller believes we'll have evidence of Nemesis in a few short years, which interestingly parallels the 2012 theory. Not that I believe that one, but it's coincidental and frightening nonetheless.

1947 Mac Brazel description to the roswell daily record " large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"

I happen to have a copy of some Roswell Daily Record papers, and don't recall seeing such a statement. Do you have a link to support this?

Wait, I know what you're talking about...this is the recant, after being in military custody... This should clear up some things...

Also though, read some of the OTHER comments in here...

Roswell Daily Record, Wednesday, July 9, 1947:


W. W. Brazel, 48, Lincoln county rancher living 30 miles south of Corona, today told his story of finding what the army at first described as a flying disk, but the publicity which attended his find caused him to add that if he ever found anything else short of a bomb, he sure wasn't going to say anything about it.

Brazel was brought here late yesterday by W. E. Whitmore, of radio station KGFL, had his picture taken and gave an interview to the Record and Jason Kellahin, sent here from the Albuquerque bureau of the Associated Press to cover the story. The picture he posed for was sent out over AP telephoto wire sending machine specially set up in the Record office by R. D. Adair, AP wire chief sent here from Albuquerque for the sole purpose of getting out his picture and that of sheriff George Wilcox, to whom Brazel originally gave the information of his find.

Brazel related that on June 14 he and an 8-year old son, Vernon (doesn't say it was his son...), were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J. B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up on rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

At the time Brazel was in a hurry to get his round made and he did not pay much attention to it. But he did remark about what he had seen and on July 4 he, his wife, Vernon and a daughter, Betty, age 14, went back to the spot and gathered up quite a bit of the debris.

The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.

Monday he came to town to sell some wool and while here he went to see sheriff George Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he might have found a flying disk.

Wilcox got in touch with the Roswell Army Air Field and Maj. Jesse A. Marcel and a man in plain clothes accompanied him home, where they picked up the rest of the pieces of the "disk" and went to his home to try to reconstruct it.

According to Brazel they simply could not reconstruct it at all. They tried to make a kite out of it, but could not do that and could not find any way to put it back together so that it could fit.

Then Major Marcel brought it to Roswell and that was the last he heard of it until the story broke that he had found a flying disk.

Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up, so he did not know the size or shape it might have been, but he thought it might have been about as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.

There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.

There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.

No strings or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.

Brazel said that he had previously found two weather observation balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these.

"I am sure that what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said. "But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."

www.angelfire.com...

This last statement is pretty telling, being right after the detainment...

This story is COMPLETELY different than the one the previous day, even though in the same paper, with the same folks involved... Suspiscious? Sure is....

Note, that prior to the July 8th or 9th stories, Brazel was interviewed by KGFL radio. They didn't air it after being warned by the FCC that they'd lose their license.

Brazel later recanted the story printed on the 9th, stating that this was the cover story he was given (including the rather big change, saying he found the debris in mid-June....not July 5, as all other evidence corraborates...) This date change is pretty much the key indicator that Brazel is telling the truth when he states he was forced to make such statements.

Gazrok, what other account did brazel give to the papers that differs so much from the one you just posted?

or are you talking about the military "flying disc" statement? which btw does not say anything about the desciption of the debris.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
danx it does come down to who you want to believe or rather what statement you want to believe.

1947 Mac Brazel description to the roswell daily record " large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"

or his 1980 accounts of magical materials after marcel came out with his story. Which do you think is more reliable?

I believe those people witnessed something out of this world, and a cover up followed.

Why does it seem impossible to you that those people were told to keep their mouth shut or told to tell a completely different story? You think the military wouldn't harass or pressure them not to tell anything?

Look at former Arizona Governor Fife Symington. He even made a mockery of the whole Phoneix Lights incident, and now, 10 years later, comes out saying that he really witnessed something he couldn't explain.

And he's an elected official. Brazel, Marcel were ordinary people.

this guy says in his report:

One of the Project Mogul balloon flights crashed near the Roswell Army Air Force base on July 7, 1947. It was recovered by the Army, who issued a press release stating that "flying disks had been recovered." The Roswell Daily Record had headlines the next day: RAAF Captures Flying Saucer.

It was not a flying saucer; it was a complex balloon project that carried flying disks -- microphones to pick up Russian nuclear explosions. The program was highly classified, and the press release said more than the security people considered acceptable, so the next day the press release was "retracted." A new press release stated that what had crashed was a "weather balloon." It wasn't a weather balloon. The US Government was lying.

Funny it was to pickup soviet nuclear test in 1947...when the russians didnt even test thier first nuclear device until august 29, 1949.

Captain Gizmo the americans didnt know if the russians were testing nuclear missiles but suspected they could be- thats why they were trying to listen out for them....

Originally posted by CaptGizmo
this guy says in his report:

One of the Project Mogul balloon flights crashed near the Roswell Army Air Force base on July 7, 1947. It was recovered by the Army, who issued a press release stating that "flying disks had been recovered." The Roswell Daily Record had headlines the next day: RAAF Captures Flying Saucer.

It was not a flying saucer; it was a complex balloon project that carried flying disks -- microphones to pick up Russian nuclear explosions. The program was highly classified, and the press release said more than the security people considered acceptable, so the next day the press release was "retracted." A new press release stated that what had crashed was a "weather balloon." It wasn't a weather balloon. The US Government was lying.

Funny it was to pickup soviet nuclear test in 1947...when the russians didnt even test thier first nuclear device until august 29, 1949.

And how was the americans able to know that the russians weren't at a stage to test in 1947? They couldn't know... that's why they had to listen in the first place. To find out...
And how does Brazels statement about not having seeing this before prove anything? Isn't it posible that this crash was cause by a new kind of more effective line of surveillance equipment... and unfortunately even on it's virgin flight? Virgin in this case being the first serious run because they now felt sure enough based on several tests that this new product was ready to be sent over the soviets?

Gazrok, what other account did brazel give to the papers that differs so much from the one you just posted?

or are you talking about the military "flying disc" statement? which btw does not say anything about the desciption of the debris.

I said the story was very different...from the same link I gave earlier, you can read the previous day's story....

Also, Brazel has recanted the July 9th statements at least a dozen times or more in NUMEROUS interviews both in print and filmed, before his death.

As for the Mogul bit mentioned above (few posts up)...only the MISSION of Mogul was classified... The Mogul trains used off the shelf parts, none of which were classified, all of which were designed to be expendable (and this is from the Mogul engineers and project head themselves). Therefore, to believe the Mogul explanation, you're still back at one of two conclusions...

1) that all of these witnesses (Brazel, intelligence officers, townsfolk, etc.), for whatever reasons, (as none got rich off this), are lying and somehow came together to make sure their stories all corraborated....

or

2) that all of the witnesses (in a military town) somehow had difficulty identifying balsa wood, paper, tin foil, silk parachutes, and rubber balloons...thinking it to be "otherworldly"

Neither conclusion is very logical, yet either one of them would be necessary if one is to believe the Mogul explanation....

As Byrd and others somewhat mentioned (they can correct me if I'm wrong), the Professor's paper was really more of an intellectual exercise than proving a conclusion.... It was more about HOW to prove something, than to actually prove a specific issue....

[edit on 22-3-2007 by Gazrok]

I guess I always assumed they would use spies for such things back then as to possible stages of development. However you do bring up a valid point.

that all of these witnesses (Brazel, intelligence officers, townsfolk, etc.), for whatever reasons, (as none got rich off this), are lying and somehow came together to make sure their stories all corraborated....

i would say most of the 80 witnesses who came forward after 1978 are lying. Did you know that some of them couldnt even tell you what year this event happened? an alien craft crash lands and they cant remember the year? amazing!

And their stories do not corrobarate at all.

but hey everyones entitled to believe what they want about roswell.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by yeti101]

would say most of the 80 witnesses who came forward after 1978 are lying. Did you know that some of them couldnt even tell you what year this event happened? an alien craft crash lands and they cant remember the year? amazing!

There are a lot of major events that happened in my life, and I'll be damned if I could tell you the year, or the month, etc. but then that's hardly important to the memory of them.... I'd wager there are plenty of such events in your own life that you're fuzzy on as well....

Being off on a year, etc. is hardly a reason to discredit... The further I get from it, the more I have to "think" to remember when I graduated high school, had my first kiss, etc., etc.

Also, the vast majority of witnesses are male (though not all), and there are scientific studies that show that we simply tend to remember such events differently than females (which is why we forget dates like anniversaries, etc.)....

And their stories do not corrobarate at all.

but hey everyones entitled to believe what they want about roswell.

"at all" is a pretty sweeping, and incorrect statement (imho). For one thing, take even an event that happened today, and there will be some differences between witnesses...let alone decades later....so actually, it's amazing the accounts are as consistent as they are... Don't take my word for it though, look at the research...the links can be found in the CLASSIC CASES thread, topped on this forum....

Just curious:

Why would the military requisition several "child-sized" caskets to be immediately and secretly rushed out to the base and then threaten the undertaker to remain silent about it? Does balloon debris deserve a proper burial?

What happened to the nurse who was commandeered to unwittingly help physicians with the "non-existent" bodies from the wreckage and who then vanished after she spoke to a local radioman after being told to remain silent?

How come we need so many 2 1/2-ton trucks and several cargo planes to cart away a 'few flimsy pieces of foil" from a 'lighter-than-air balloon?

Oh yeah - there are many, many more questions just like this...

herein lies the problem, my friends... Lots of unanswered questions - few legitimate answers. Way too much ambiguity, secrecy, and disinformation for "just a balloon" - even one used in a "test"...

[edit on 3/22/2007 by Outrageo]

Why would the military requisition several "child-sized" caskets

they didnt

What happened to the nurse who was commandeered t

No trace of this mysterious nurse can be found anywhere, nor can any idependant witnesses recall a nurse being called to the base. Except the people who made up the story in the 1980s

How come we need so many 2 1/2-ton trucks and several cargo planes to cart away a 'few flimsy pieces of foil" from a 'lighter-than-air balloon?

again no evidence of this at all, certainly not from the time. Only more stories from the 1980s

[edit on 23-3-2007 by yeti101]

Sorry for the Necro-post, but Yeti seems to be lacking proof in his statements and anything legitimate to back them up as confidently as Gazrok has.

You can obviously see his tactics through and through the course of the thread.

Poor Job.