Berkley Professor = Roswell WAS weather balloon, and here's why!

Originally posted by yeti101
danx when they annoced they had recovered a ufo they werent covering anything up.

Bingo!

If ufos were "on people's minds" at the time, like you said, you think the military would issue a statement saying "we have a flying saucer" without giving it much thought? Without being certain of what they had in their possession?

They issued the statement, that made headlines, because the military (or the people taking care of the Roswell incident) at the time were naive when it came to the matter of ufos/aliens/etc, and someone later on probably realized what were the implications and took it back and started the disinfo campaign/cover up.

Your logic doesn't make any sense to me.

Originally posted by yeti101

How could a person not be able to distiguish a alien space craft from anything else on this earth?

becuase nobody knew what flying saucer debris would look like

Thats the point. A alien space craft would be so different than anything we've ever seen. I would have to believe if someone comes across a alien space craft they would instantly recognize its nothing we've made. How could the 509th bomb group come to the conclusion that this mogul balloon was an alien space craft? What would even make them suggest that? I dont believe they saw some UFO special on ABC, and were influenced in that manner.

Originally posted by tezzajw
But, in your debunking attempt, you neglect to state that there were two primary witnesses. Mac Brazel and the kid who was riding with him.

I have never heard of a passenger with Mr. Brazel that day. Where did that information arise from?

A alien space craft would be so different than anything we've ever seen

have you seen one close up? how do you know what it would look like?

Danx, at the time some of the military beleived flying saucers could have been russian spy vehicles manned or unmanned. An early blow in the cold war would have been quite a feather in the cap of the US military

Originally posted by yeti101
Danx, at the time some of the military beleived flying saucers could have been russian spy vehicles manned or unmanned. An early blow in the cold war would have been quite a feather in the cap of the US military

So, from your words the logic is this.. ufos were "on people's minds", the US military thought it could be russian, people had the 'war jitters' and yet.. they came out and said they had one because... they confused it with a balloon.

Did I get everything?

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by tezzajw
But, in your debunking attempt, you neglect to state that there were two primary witnesses. Mac Brazel and the kid who was riding with him.

I have never heard of a passenger with Mr. Brazel that day. Where did that information arise from?

It's common knowledge, if you have read any reports or books about Roswell. He was riding with his son, Vernon, who was about eight years old. Brazel did not discover the wreckage field alone.

I'll post the reference when I get home from work.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by tezzajw]

the confusion came about becuase the military thought they had captured a "flying disc".

The disc is described in a telex sent to the FBI

" The disc is hexagonal in shape and suspended from a balloon 20 feet in diameter- the disc was recovered by a local rancher...."

Nobody in the military said they had captured an extra terrestrial craft. That only came about in 1978 from marcel. Here is the press release from the military

The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriffs office of Chaves County. The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."

[edit on 21-3-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101

A alien space craft would be so different than anything we've ever seen

have you seen one close up? how do you know what it would look like?

I never said or implied I've seen an alien space craft. What I am saying is that it would most likely not resemble anything we would recognize. I believe if it was an alien space craft most average people would know it, and could easily discipher it from anything we've ever made. Show me anything that the military has developed, that could be confused or mistaken for an alien space craft. Preferably something on the ground. I've even seen wreakage of a F117 crashed into bits, but you could still tell it was made here.

Freezer,

marcel said himslef the amount of debris they collected amounted to about 5 pounds, your talking about a tiny bit of debris that he didnt recognize and let his imagination do the rest.

william "mac" brazel described the debris to the Roswell daily record as "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"





[edit on 21-3-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by behindthescenes
I found this paper recently and it's quite an interesting read. Many of you Roswell afficionados and experts probably already know much of this government-sponsored explanation.

I know Muller from his "Physics for Future Presidents" class podcasts, and he's top notch. He is quite open to other ideas, and he's EXTREMELY thorough. He does some fun stuff along the lines of "suppose it was real (suppose there was a Superman and he could fly)" and then asks how physics would be changed if this was true.

That's what he does with the Nemesis thing you mentioned.

Essentially, he's demonstrating occam's razor -- the simplest explanation is often the correct one. Perhaps more interesting is Muller himself:

Actually, he's not. He's glossing over a lot of detailed math and science that prove his point and tons and tons of research. His charm is that he can do this and knows when to stop giving details. But if you challenged him on it or probed to find out further information, he could give you hours of detail (and haul out the instruments, too) to back up what he says.

He could even hand you the instruments and show you how to work them so you could verify his statements.

Originally posted by tezzajw
It's common knowledge, if you have read any reports or books about Roswell. He was riding with his son, Vernon, who was about eight years old. Brazel did not discover the wreckage field alone.

Haven't looked for new stuff on the event in years. Today I did find something.

Dee Proctor - On July 4, 1947, Dee Proctor, the seven-year old neighbor of rancher William Brazel, was with Brazel when he discovered a large amount of lightweight, metallic debris on the Foster ranch, New Mexico, where Brazel worked as foreman. When Brazel and Dee drove back home, Brazel showed a piece of the wreckage to Dee's parents, Floyd and Loretta Proctor. It was agreed by all that the debris was unlike anything seen before.

So some UFO researchers say it was a neighbor's daughter.

Wasn't Mack's son named BIll (William)?

Roadgravel

Brazel told the Roswell daily record he found it with his son but ignored it then returned a few days later with his wife,son & daughter to collect the material.



[edit on 21-3-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
Nobody in the military said they had captured an extra terrestrial craft. That only came about in 1978 from marcel. Here is the press release from the military

Really?
I thought otherwise.

source

Roswell Daily Record, July 8th, 1947
RAAF CAPTURES FLYING SAUCER ON RANCH IN ROSWELL REGION

No Details of Flying Disk Are Revealed

Roswell Hardware Man and Wife Report Disk Seen

The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.

So when they said 'flying saucer' they didn't mean of extra-terrestrial origin?

danx, no they did not.

flying saucers were a new phenomenon theories varied about what they could be. Russian spy craft was the most common theory in the military-

btw the military called it a flying disc the paper used the saucer term and of course today the term flying saucer only means one thing, but not back then.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by yeti101]

So we can add that this site has incorrect info.

www.majesticdocuments.com...

And that somewhere Vernon is introduced, which is incorrect, unless Mack had more than one son.

For me it doesnt sound plausible the idea of a ballon in the first place.why?

Ok let see if you were in the military and a highly ballon crash on the ground..you would say to the news: yes we had a UFO..a spaceship from another world?... Dont you think the militaries knew what happen with Orson wells radio program about aliens that a lot of people make suicide with that fake radio program??? of course they knew.

That would put the theory on a Spaceship crash on red marks...to use it..people would get afraid just by that idea..and the military knew about it...

So coming 50 years later and said . well whe use the UFO spaceship for cover a secret weather ballon ..looks highly illogic just for this fact...

I think they got confused..something crash out from this world on that day...they put that on the news..they didnt check all the info first..maybe they were thinking on the first reports it was a weather ballon of mogul..they went there and saw the UFO crash and not the mogul weather ballon..what to do now?..tell the secret about mogul..or tell the ufo?..the news spread like fire on the military and somebody leak the UFO crash...then the high ranks had to do something..ok..marked has a weather ballon (you will not compromise Mogul and UFO crash)
50 years later they declasefied MOGUL and now they said..: it was mogul all the time..how convinient...or just lucky..

For my part i think something out of this world crash that day..and the military were freak out on what to do.... that's why all the errors and contradiction in the story of roswell..

roadgravel i think macs son was called vernon.

I saw you quoted a boy "dee proctor- a neighbours son was with him" maybe that is the case and his son seen the debris when they went to collect it.

but thats the roswell story full of inconsistantcies.

ALEXDJ

yes we had a UFO..a spaceship from another world?...

the military never said that.


[edit on 21-3-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101

flying saucers were a new phenomenon theories varied about what they could be. Russian spy craft was the most common theory in the military-

btw the military called it a flying disc the paper used the saucer term and of course today the term flying saucer only means one thing, but not back then.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by yeti101]

I think you need to do a bit more research. Unidentified Flying Objects have been around for literally thousands of years. There are pictures of them, drawn in artistic form and there is literature about them from many different cultures. The ancient people who wrote the most about them were the ancient Hindi's; whom wrote of the Vimana that gods flew around in.

External Source

During the reign of Pharaoh Thutmose III around 1450 BC, there is a description of multiple “circles of fire” brighter than the Sun and about 5 metres in size that appeared over multiple days.[1] They finally disappeared after ascending higher in the sky.

The Roman author Julius Obsequens writes that in 99 BC, “in Tarquinia towards sunset, a round object, like a globe, a round or circular shield, took its path in the sky from west to east.”

On September 24, 1235, General Yoritsume and his army observed unidentified globes of light flying in erratic patterns in the night sky near Kyoto, Japan. The general’s advisers told him not to worry — it was merely the wind causing the stars to sway.

On April 14, 1561 the skies over Nuremberg, Germany were reportedly filled with a multitude of objects seemingly engaged in an aerial battle. Small spheres and discs were said to emerge from large cylinders

On November 17, 1882, astronomer E. W. Maunder of the Greenwich Royal Observatory described in the Observatory Reports “a strange celestial visitor” that was “disc-shaped,” “torpedo-shaped,” or “spindle-shaped.” It was said to be very different in characteristics from a meteor fireball. Years later, Maunder wrote it looked exactly like the new Zeppelin dirigibles. The strange object was also seen by several other European astronomers.

If you go here you will find just some of the vast history behind UFOs:
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by yeti101
roadgravel i think macs son was called vernon.

www.roswellproof.com...

BILL BRAZEL JR (B&M; F&B) [Quoting his father] "Dad did say one time that there were what he called 'figures' on some of the pieces [woodlike pieces] he found.
He often referred to the petroglyphs the ancient Indians drew on rocks around here as "figures" too, and I think that's what he meant to compare them with."

B&M: Charles Berlitz and William Moore, The Roswell Incident, 1980.
F&B: Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner, Crash at Corona, 1991

For what it is worth. Just trying to keep it all straight. Not saying that those researchers are absolutely right.

Originally posted by yeti101
danx, no they did not.

flying saucers were a new phenomenon theories varied about what they could be. Russian spy craft was the most common theory in the military-

btw the military called it a flying disc the paper used the saucer term and of course today the term flying saucer only means one thing, but not back then.

It comes down to who you want to believe.
I find it extremely hard to believe in the government/military, and really, can you blame me or anyone else for that matter?

Even if you don't believe there was an extra-terrestrial craft involved in the Roswell incident, there's a bunch of incidents and cases you can pick.

You really believe they aren't covering up any extra-terrestrial related crash/ recovery/sighting/etc in all the cases?