Our Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by misterfantastic
what can one person or two people really do against the decisions of stubborn politicians???

One person can do more than what you think they can. It only takes one match to light a fire, you know.

What you accomplish is entirely up to you. Don't ever think for one minute that you're incapable of making a difference.

OH I do so love to watch closet globalists try and rationalize.

What my fellow americans are saying about multiculturalism being impossible in a stable society is 100% true and can be historically backed up. All we are doing by allowing mass immigrations without making it clear we demand cultural assimillation is setting ourselves up for another dark ages.

Remember my friends the first sack of rome was done by angry immigrants who were being treated badly true enough, but in negotiations bluntly stated they did not want to assimilate they just wanted roman food and protection.... Somehow this sounds shockingly familiar...

Muslims and poles and mexicans and etc ad nauseum are all demanding our way of life in various countries but are making no effort whatsoever to assimilate. And look at the tension it is causing In the US there is the minute man militia, black people that still think every white man is opressing them when they aren't given preferential hiring status and an effective priority status for university enrollment.

In france the muslims are burning cars and generally making a nuisance of themselves while demanding they be given first crack at jobs when any one with half a brain knows indigenous french are having just as much trouble with finding work in most cases. (it's called economic stagnation and the rest of the EU finally pulling up their pants and getting up from the barrel france had them bent over in the early days of that abortion of a globalist entity)

IN ireland you have the poles and their refusal to assimilate.

All in all what I see on this thread is a bunch of pie in the sky calling people who are rationally stating facts but backing them up with examples... Lets give a few more out of history just for fun.

HMM INDIA and great britian: Neither the indians or the brits could fully reconcile themselves to adjusting to the others core values in a way that kept them united. IN that case we have ghandi and a rather peacable example of failure of one culture to dominate the other to a point where assimilation occured.

The goths and ROME: We all know how that one ended one sacking and some other general chaos later one of the most civilized empires in history evaporates and causes the dark ages.

Turkey and the KURDS: well needless to say it's not just turkey here but most of the middle east that will use a kurd sneezing and a dribble of snot landing on their territory as an excuse to shell or start up border raiding.

India and pakistan: Muslims + hindus = problems for those who don't know ghandi got the british to leave but the muslims and hindus were too evenly matched and eventually fought a war and became two seperate entities.

Israelis and palestinians: You'd think after living in the same proximity for a few millenia would have let these guys get along as neighbors and historically it HAS happened in a specific set of circumstances.
Pre balfour decision: even though the jews and palestinians didn't really like each other the returning core of zionists lived peacefully with palestine with the brits there specifically ready to knock the crap out of whoever started acting up.

Sunni and shia in iraq: IN saddams reign there was more or less unity between these two because one side was clearly dominant and in power. As a matter of fact other than gassing kurds they got along fairly well until we disrupted the status quo

Well that is enough examples needless to say if you look around history is full of examples of how different cultures cannot coexist without one culture being dominant and those coming in assimilating at least partially to that culture.

This in no way means people have to give up their identities and in reality the truly successful stories of assimilation usually show through when the host culture takes on significant aspects of its new immigrants culture. this is why americans eat chinese food celebrate st patties day and love beer/brats

I feel somewhat ashamed to share the same country with such bigots as a couple of you are representing yourself as...

...and before you tell me to leave the U.S. if I don't like it... umm... YOU are NOT my country... YOUR OPINION should not dictate how or where I live...

I like being able to think what I like... I think referring to Native Americans as 'Not American' is a bit rude and is clearly false... they were here long before any of our Eurasian ancestors were... and when you (RuckPuck) state that the people who populate(d) the western U.S. were 'Americans' from the eastern U.S....??

Do you think that a generation or two erases your label as being 'Asian, German, Spanish, Mexican, French, Italian, etc.'...? No doubt a hater of all that is not 'American (read 'White')' will refer to a 4th generation American that has ancestors that were from a European/Asian/African nation that differs from your own ancestors' origin(s) as 'Not American'...

[edit on 17-3-2007 by Harlowe JNkinz]

[edit on 17-3-2007 by Harlowe JNkinz]

People need to assimilate. After you come to America, you should learn the language and culture.

I can't stand people who come to America and yet wave the flags of their country and speak their own language, while spewing hatred and racial bigotry against others.

Originally posted by Johnmike
People need to assimilate. After you come to America, you should learn the language and culture.

I can't stand people who come to America and yet wave the flags of their country and speak their own language, while spewing hatred and racial bigotry against others.

I was born here... as were my great-great-great grandparents... still smells like bigotry... who flies their own flag here in this country? ... that isn't here just visiting...?

That is exactly the socalled bigotted people's point my man

If said people no matter where they were from called themselves 4th generation or 2nd generation or even 1st generation americans it wouldn't be a problem. IT is the fact that everyone who emigrates these days seems to have this pseudo righteous indignation about "Preserving their heritage" which usually consists of insisting that we respect their "native culture, language, etc" and they should not have to learn english or change their lifestyle in any way.

Now not being a fire breathing isolationist, or psychopathic white supremacist with a cousin fetish from idaho. I understand that the first year or 10 you are here it really isn't reasonable to expect you to speak sitcom perfect american english. However I do have every Right to expect you to make the effort... especially if you haven't bothered to immigrate here legally!

Plainly put people that come to a country illegally are a huge strain on the economy... and cost every legal citizen or guest worker money. The reason for this is plain and simple. They use services and the like that are paid for by taxes that they do not pay.

Now on top of this they cost us all money one other way (well other than the # holes that hire them) Plain and simply put being here illegally puts them in a poor position to negotiate a wage increase obviously. Unscrupulous people take advantage of this to increase their profit margin and drive down the prices other contractors who hire legal workers can charge for their services too. Ultimatelly this hurts the illegal immigrant just as much if not more than Joe six pack... But it also does one other thing.

Unfortunatelly due to those unscrupulous people that won't pay illegals a living wage they pretty much have to ask for aid... which our government is more willing to give to illegal immigrants than it's own people (ask your congressman why when juan pablo , who is here illegally, doesn't have to pay his ER bill but you do when both of you are just as broke). NOw on both sides the illegals AND The taxpayers are getting screwed. the only ones that make money are corporations. Even if said corporation doesn't hire illegals the 9000 fly by night construction companies and janitorial services do which pushes down the base wage benefitting even large corporations with scrupulous hiring practices quite possibly more even than the small ones who actually hire illegal immigrants.

On top of that once again the big dogs play the little guys off against each other and laugh all the way to the bank in a huge example of corporate welfare. And any american who has the nerve to actually get angry about getting screwed is called a racist or a bigot or an unfeeling EVIL Bad bad person for not caring about the plight of the third world That I can assure you Halliburton GE Lockmart and a million other mega corporations do not give a dead rats maggot eaten hindquarters worth of thought about.

But please keep calling us bigots because we are sick of seeing our pay checks get smaller every year while our country is expected to hand out money to everyone internationally at unprecedented rates yet we all drive home from work wondering how we are going to afford to heat our houses, buy gas so we can get to work, AND eat all in the same week... Mind you I didn't say anything about medical care.... because a larger and larger portion of american working class flat Can't afford health care and don't expect to be able to ever again

Originally posted by roguetechie
But please keep calling us bigots because we are sick of seeing our pay checks get smaller every year while our country is expected to hand out money to everyone internationally at unprecedented rates yet we all drive home from work wondering how we are going to afford to heat our houses, buy gas so we can get to work, AND eat all in the same week... Mind you I didn't say anything about medical care.... because a larger and larger portion of american working class flat Can't afford health care and don't expect to be able to ever again

I didn't think this thread was about illegal immigration... It originated with someone's idea of this continent's nations merging... and... umm... I pay the same taxes that you do... I'm from here too... I still don't agree with your 'Borg' brand of assimilation

Wait so we are bigotted because we don't like people that Hate americans and want nothing to do with our society other than whatever freebies they can get from us?

Expecting people to assimilate is no different than expecting someone who is at a movie theatre not to hold a 45 minute conversation on speakerphone mid movie.

Soft headed UN politically correct types will tell you otherwise but it is more than OK to set boundaries. It is OK to expect your server at mcdonalds to understand when you order in english, it is ok to not be happy when someone all but admits to hating their new country and everything it stands for.

In the UK they are dealing with the same problem, a bunch of ungrateful people who expect a free ride but not only want nothing to do with helping along those that offered them a new home but also activelly insist that it is still a horrible place.

What 'borg brand of assimilation would that be?

The part where I would like to share a common language with my neighbor... the part where I'd really like someone who lives here legally or not to help share the load?

Like I said earlier, maybe you didn't understand. I am all for immigration and the like however cultural assimillation is a necessity.

And for the record if it wasn't for soft headed morons who call anyone who isn't willing to be walked all over a racist. I wouldn't have to editoriallize my entire theory on immigration.

I could just say Yeah people need to assimilate otherwise it screws up the country they moved to.

But If I did that you or someone else would just call me a racist. Which you do anyway, so maybe I shouldn't try.

BUt hey I am just a simple guy that doesn't hate anyone who doesn't attempt to mess with my abiility to pursue life liberty and happiness, and further feels bad for all the people that get raw deals in the world. But I still won't agonize and be browbeat into being guilty for what I have or wanting to keep the lifestyle I am accustomed to.

[edit on 18-3-2007 by roguetechie]

Originally posted by roguetechie
Wait so we are bigotted because we don't like people that Hate americans and want nothing to do with our society other than whatever freebies they can get from us?

(Searching for where I typed all of that ridiculous text...) (Boggle)

Expecting people to assimilate is no different than expecting someone who is at a movie theatre not to hold a 45 minute conversation on speakerphone mid movie.

Soft headed UN politically correct types will tell you otherwise but it is more than OK to set boundaries. It is OK to expect your server at mcdonalds to understand when you order in english, it is ok to not be happy when someone all but admits to hating their new country and everything it stands for.

In the UK they are dealing with the same problem, a bunch of ungrateful people who expect a free ride but not only want nothing to do with helping along those that offered them a new home but also activelly insist that it is still a horrible place.

How can you label masses of immigrants as you do? I imagine most of them are happy here... and there are people indigenous to this country that complain incessantly about their location of residence... that seems normal (I think it's called depression)... My main problem with this subject is the incendiary form that people choose to state that YOU MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE US IF YOU WANT TO LIVE HERE... doesn't seem very American... or civil, for that matter...

Originally posted by roguetechie
BUt hey I am just a simple guy that doesn't hate anyone who doesn't attempt to mess with my abiility to pursue life liberty and happiness, and further feels bad for all the people that get raw deals in the world. But I still won't agonize and be browbeat into being guilty for what I have or wanting to keep the lifestyle I am accustomed to.

No hate... I don't know... some of that post seems downright hateful to me... such as that 'moron' statement...

I not once Said you must be exactly like us. I never even intimated that it might be secretly what I am thinking...

Assimilation does not mean you must be exactly like us. It means you must adjust to fit into the culture you have voluntary inserted yourself into. Luckilly for them western cultures are exceedingly tolerant in most areas. And as for cultural diversity, I love it I think it is a great thing and would die without my indian thai and japanese food. BUt assimilation is not about being the same it is about adjusting to fit into the rudimentary social baselines, at least in public, of the culture.

Originally posted by roguetechie
I not once Said you must be exactly like us. I never even intimated that it might be secretly what I am thinking...

Assimilation does not mean you must be exactly like us. It means you must adjust to fit into the culture you have voluntary inserted yourself into. Luckilly for them western cultures are exceedingly tolerant in most areas. And as for cultural diversity, I love it I think it is a great thing and would die without my indian thai and japanese food. BUt assimilation is not about being the same it is about adjusting to fit into the rudimentary social baselines, at least in public, of the culture.

Well then we probably have the same ideas about that subject... If you've noticed, I haven't mentioned the language thing... because I believe that it's important to be able to communicate... reading many of these threads kills me with the abundance of misspellings and terrible grammar...

Anyway, when I mentioned 'bigots', I was referring to people who are just that... and you know who you are if you are...

Calling someone a bigot because they refuse to believe the should allow themselves to be guilt tripped into letting immigrants turn our culture into a carbon copy of theirs is exceedingly stupid. And i wasn't referring to you as a moron in the first place.

Maybe you genuinelly do not get the subtext I was trying to go for...

In my view the whole issue with tension between immigrants is being encouraged by the powers that be so we will fight amongst ourselves and never see the real culprits of all of our misery.

I genuinelly bear no ill will towards you or immigrants. I bear ill will towards those who would manufacture stress between all parties for their own means by creating unrealistic expectations on all sides then watching chaos ensue.

Originally posted by roguetechie
Calling someone a bigot because they refuse to believe the should allow themselves to be guilt tripped into letting immigrants turn our culture into a carbon copy of theirs is exceedingly stupid. And i wasn't referring to you as a moron in the first place.

Maybe you genuinelly do not get the subtext I was trying to go for...

In my view the whole issue with tension between immigrants is being encouraged by the powers that be so we will fight amongst ourselves and never see the real culprits of all of our misery.

I genuinelly bear no ill will towards you or immigrants. I bear ill will towards those who would manufacture stress between all parties for their own means by creating unrealistic expectations on all sides then watching chaos ensue.

Ah, I understand... and agree

Edit to Add:
oh... the version of "Bigot" I meant to use was this one...
www.m-w.com...

[edit on 18-3-2007 by Harlowe JNkinz]

Originally posted by roguetechie
Wait so we are bigotted because we don't like people that Hate americans and want nothing to do with our society other than whatever freebies they can get from us?

I would have to agree.

Where I live, there are a lot of immigrants that are very disrespectful of the nation they migrated to. They don't care about what America stands for, and they sure as the hell don't care about protecting the rights, liberties, and freedoms granted to them... as long as they get a handout. And they honestly enjoy playing the race card whenever to a personal benefit. There's flags being flown in front of homes, stickers on vehicles, even people screaming it in public, that their "home" nation is better than the US.

I'm not trying to stereotype anyone and I'm not being a "bigot" or a racist, because I've seen it from all different nationalities. However, on the other hand, there's lots of immigrants from various other nations that are very appreciative of the rights, freedoms, and liberties that they have gained by becoming a US citizen.

And I find that very disheartening, and in my opinion, those people should go "home", wherever that may be. Furthermore, if "they" don't like that... too damn bad.

There we go... sorry about earlier lack of clarity... I have been flamed more than once for not writing a full on sociological rationale for my statements involving hot button issues before. And obviously I have a couple axes to grind on certain subjects.

LOL

Originally posted by roguetechie
There we go... sorry about earlier lack of clarity... I have been flamed more than once for not writing a full on sociological rationale for my statements involving hot button issues before. And obviously I have a couple axes to grind on certain subjects.

LOL

heheh.. I hear ya... no offense taken... sorry if I offended

As wierd as it may sound, I think I can cope with a new world order. But only as long as everyone is treated equally and we all recieve this zero-point energy for free. I think zero-point energy can eliminate poverty and war (since most wars are over oil anyway).

Originally posted by curiousbeliever
As wierd as it may sound, I think I can cope with a new world order. But only as long as everyone is treated equally and we all recieve this zero-point energy for free. I think zero-point energy can eliminate poverty and war (since most wars are over oil anyway).

Why can't the government reveal the zero-point energy for free... without forming a new world order?