Steven Greers latest conference

Well that doesn't explain where the force is coming from. The source of the energy, still unexplained by our conventional science. Cause, there is energy spent to hold the magnet up there, ever second it's up there. Energy is spent to hold it against gravity. Where is the energy coming from?
Don't even try to answer, cause you can't without talking about space-time curvature or the ZPE flux field.

Originally posted by RichardLalancette
Well that doesn't explain where the force is coming from. The source of the energy, still unexplained by our conventional science. Cause, there is energy spent to hold the magnet up there, ever second it's up there. Energy is spent to hold it against gravity. Where is the energy coming from?
Don't even try to answer, cause you can't without talking about space-time curvature or the ZPE flux field.

Richard,
The magnet that is attached to the refrigerator isn't doing any 'work'. It is simply staying in the lowest locally available energy state. When you repel magnets against the polar opposites - they are doing work, when you pick up lets say a nail with the magnet - it is working... but staying in one place without friction or movement is not work. From the link below - they are suggesting the energy is kinetic.
www.physlink.com...

and Actaully - it gets into the Pauli exclusion principle

Wikipedia external source
When quantum mechanics and the Pauli Exclusion Principle are accounted for, the electrical energy within these atoms is found to be lower if the magnetic moments of the valence electrons are aligned. This makes them ferromagnetic. Every ferromagnet has its own individual temperature, called the Curie temperature, or Curie point, above which it loses its ferromagnetic properties. This is because the thermal tendency to disorder overwhelms the energy lowering due to ferromagnetic order. A perfectly aligned ferromagnet is said to have long-range order because all of its atoms have their magnetic moments pointing in the same direction. Real ferromagnets are not perfectly aligned, but rather contain perfectly aligned regions, called magnetic domains, which have their own magnetization directions.

I don't claim to understand nearly enough as I would wish to about magnetism... but during my research - I get sidetracked sometimes when I read some interesting theories... No, we can not exactly guess why this 'force' occurs, but it has to do with electricity and magnetism ultimately is due to the motion of electric charge. Earth itself has a magnetic field - so, the attributes to magnetism go beyond even advanced science and quantum physics/mechanics - but in all its basic attributes - it has to do with electrons, dipoles, magnetic domains, and valence electrons.

So, we do understand the basics of how it works...


Millerman:


Since earth is a gravitational body, with its own magnetic field - perhaps the energies that earth is exerting throughout our solar system are attributed to the energies of permanent magnets? Since earth is rich in iron - and all magnets (permanent ones) are made from iron... perhaps their charge is from earths magnetic field? just guessing right now... I am no physicist. Everything is made up of atoms though... so, it would make sense.

[edit on 4/20/2007 by kroms33]

Originally posted by kroms33

Permanent magnets produce fields through the orientation of the electron orbits and spins of the atoms in the magnet. These fields/electrons interact with objects such as metal (iron) depending on the strength of the field.
Each permanent magnet is made from metal which has tiny regions called 'domains' - which point randomly, but can be partially aligned. If you take a magnet and break it in have you would now have two magnets - both with N and S poles - keep going until the nearly the atomic level... magnetic domains.

Ordinary objects like tables, chairs, walls and sofas have spinning atoms and electron orbits too, but they don't exhibit these fantastic abilities to defy gravity, or cause other objects to move and defy gravity etc....

I understand that it does have something to do with the material the magnet is composed of (iron), and special configurations of electrons and whatnot.... but that still doesn't explain the actual energy source that allows a magnet to defy gravity for days on end.

Again, it isn't heat, or radiation, there aren't any atoms being split or fused or anything like that....

What makes the most sense to me is that the magnet is somehow tapping into the "etheric" energy or ZPE.

One scientist (the name escapes me right now) put it this way: Our whole material universe as we know it is actually like a little boat, floating on a vast sea of energy! And tapping some of it for use in our machinery is like withdrawing a few drops of water with a little teacup....

Originally posted by kroms33


Millerman:


Since earth is a gravitational body, with its own magnetic field - perhaps the energies that earth is exerting throughout our solar system are attributed to the energies of permanent magnets? Since earth is rich in iron - and all magnets (permanent ones) are made from iron... perhaps their charge is from earths magnetic field? just guessing right now... I am no physicist. Everything is made up of atoms though... so, it would make sense.

That's a possibility, and there have been some inventors who claimed to be able to tap energy from the Earth's magnetic field like that.

But if these free energy devices are able to function just as well out in space and outside of the Earth's magnetic field, that would kind of kill that theory.....

People often are somewhat appalled, or more than slightly turned-off, by the so-called "New Age" views associated with UFOs. Steven Greer was very well known to be very respected in the disclosure movement and was taken seriously by many who understood the information he presented. But, when he started talking about things that initially sound flaky and New Age, such as "consciousness" and "Oneness" and "The Infinite" etc- people just can't get on with that. And why not? Is it scientific dogma? The days of the so-called "Enlightenment" of scientific empiricsm, rationalism and materialism are ending. This is clearly very very difficult for many people involved with UFOlogy. That is why I would like to remind you all of 2 very well-known and well-respected UFO researchers, who were involved in classified research, and their conclusions about UFOs. Do you remember, or even know, the names Josef Allen Hynek and/or Jacques Vallee? Here is some information to help acquaint you with them....

Jacques Vallee (the following text is from: www.ufoevidence.org... )

In his recent autobiographical book, Forbidden Science, Vallee summed up his views about the provenance of UFOs, a viewpoint that he's developed through decades of research: "The UFO Phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them." So much for anti-gravity-powered starships ferrying Big Brothers from outer space. Vallee thinks UFOs are likely "windows" to other dimensions manipulated by intelligent, often mischievous, always enigmatic beings we have yet to understand.

Vallee moved to America from his native France in the early 1960s, as young astronomer-turned-computer scientist. Vallee pioneered the use of computers to analyze and categorize the UFO phenomenon, and his 1965 book, Anatomy of a Phenomenon, is still considered one of the most scholarly books on UFOs ever written. At Northwestern University, Vallee assisted Prof. J. Allen Hynek, the academic consultant on the Air Force's infamous Project Bluebook, now seen by most saucer students as either a half-hearted government effort to address the UFO craze of the 1950s and 1960s or a full-blown coverup. While working with Hynek, Vallee and his wife, Janine, compiled the first-ever computer database of UFO sightings.

In 1969, Vallee published another groundbreaking book, Passport to Magonia, in which he collected a body of folkloric "myths" that read remarkably like modern UFO encounters, from Celtic tales of fairyland abductions to Biblical passages and medieval chronicles of "visitors" from beyond. Building on Carl Jung's thesis that UFOs are a sociological phenomenon, a product of the collective unconscious, Vallee forever left behind the space-bound E.T. theorists. But his folklorist's approach to the problem would influence a number of later researchers and writers who continue to echo his ideas about other-dimensional forms of consciousness. Best-selling author Whitley Strieber, Harvard "abductee psychologist" John Mack, and journalist Keith Thompson (author of Angels and Aliens all owe a debt to Vallee. Stephen Spielberg paid homage to Vallee in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, basing his French scientist character (played by Francois Truffaut) on the real French UFO theorist.


[edit on 22-4-2007 by corsair00]

(the following text is from Wikipedia)

Josef Allen Hynek (May 1, 1910 - April 27, 1986) was a U.S. astronomer, professor, and ufologist.

He is probably best remembered for his UFO research: Hynek acted as scientific advisor to three consecutive UFO studies undertaken by the U.S. Air Force: Project Sign (1947-1949), Project Grudge (1949-1952), and finally, Project Blue Book (1952 to 1969); for decades afterwards, he conducted his own independent UFO research.

In 1977, at the First International UFO Congress in Chicago, Hynek presented his thoughts in his speech "What I really believe about UFOs". "I do believe," he said, "that the UFO phenomenon as a whole is real, but I do not mean necessarily that it's just one thing. We must ask whether the diversity of observed UFOs . . . all spring from the same basic source, as do weather phenomena, which all originate in the atmosphere", or whether they differ "as a rain shower differs from a meteor, which in turn differs from a cosmic-ray shower." We must not ask, Hynek said, what hypothesis can explain the most facts, but we must ask, which hypothesis can explain the most puzzling facts. (C. Fuller, 156-157)

"There is sufficient evidence to defend both the ETI and the EDI hypothesis," Hynek continued. As evidence for the ETI (extraterrestrial intelligence) he mentioned, as examples, the radar cases as good evidence of something solid, and the physical-trace cases. Then he turned to defending the EDI (extradimensional intelligence) hypothesis. Besides the aspect of materialization and dematerialization he cited the "poltergeist" phenomenon experienced by some people after a close encounter; the photographs of UFOs, some times on only one frame, not seen by the witnesses; the changing form right before the witnesses' eyes; the puzzling question of telepathic communication; or that in close encounters of the third kind the creatures seem to be at home in earth's gravity and atmosphere; the sudden stillness in the presence of the craft; levitation of cars or persons; the development by some of psychic abilities after an encounter. "Do we have two aspects of one phenomenon or two different sets of phenomena?" Hynek asked. (C. Fuller, 157-163)

Finally he introduced a third hypothesis. "I hold it entirely possible," he said, "that a technology exists, which encompasses both the physical and the psychic, the material and the mental. There are stars that are millions of years older than the sun. There maybe a civilization that is millions of years more advanced than man's. We have gone from Kitty Hawk to the moon in some seventy years, but it's possible that a million-year-old civilization may know something that we don't ... I hypothesize an 'M&M' technology encompassing the mental and material realms. The psychic realms, so mysterious to us today, may be an ordinary part of an advanced technology." (C. Fuller, 164-165)

Steven Greers hardships have lead him to truths, everything comes with a price and if labeling or tagging them with insane discredits them, then all of us are in trouble.

Truth is the validity in which we give it.Spirituality is always in there because its the highest networking without falling apart.Being spiritual is just being in spirit announcing the layer of existance which co-cides with the world around us.Its always been a cosmic adventure because futurists have lead us to believe there is no life without strife.Which is true in the human layer but when you move past that layer you are into another fabric.And within that other fabric lies common sense galore.A lot of what we have is technology of the past.There are others that live with love and understanding of the Universe.See exactly what Greer talks about is what some of us have already experienced.And yes our "Space Cousins" like to converse on the wonders of the Universe.

It is to be quite arrogant to believe, we know everything, and we master every science, and we understand how visitors from space are coming to our planet.

What I find even more interesting, is that us Human, have a hard time to learn from our past mistakes.

Blasphemy was the word used when we were told this planet wasn't flat. And where we discovered we were not the center of the universe. And do you remember when someone said we could fly?

So today, it's the same pattern repeating over. People denials can only last for so long, before we embrace the new science and the new spiritual world opening to us. 500 000 years of peace is coming to us, and nothing can stop it from happening, it's already there, we just have to find a way to materialise it.

Originally posted by kroms33
Ok, I am watching it - I think Greer is loosing some credibility because he is turning this into a "New Age" religion.

He should have left it to a scientific / witness discussion - instead of "Cosmology" - I am very disappointed.

It's now about money.

Sorry for the edit - but HOW can anyone with a scientific mind take anything what he says at face value... I thought the disclosure project was going to get the ball rolling - now I see that it is just a wacky ride for people who are caught up in the 'new age' religious beliefs of the minority of the UFO believers.

Seems very dis-informative to me... thus placing Greer among a long line of non-scientific 'kooks' making mass profits off of people with books, conferences and DVDs...

I know many will attack my views about this - but look at it from a scientific level. I believe UFOs exist - but for the public to accept this as fact - you don't make it spiritual - you make it scientific and present facts.

MAN AM I DISAPPOINTED.

[edit on 3/11/2007 by kroms33]

I'm with you 100% on this.
Can't we just keep 'The Big Disclosure' based on Facts, Proof, and Testimony? It started out with SO MUCH MOMENTUM, and now it seems it has been mixed into opinions, philosophy, and spirituality (which is all great and well, but totally irrelevant to the original purpose)....

Names, Dates, Testimony, Focused Litigation, and Physical Evidence are the only thing that will provoke any kind of 'Official Acknowledgement' by the governments, in the media and world political forums, as well as introduction into formal science and education.

The sad truth is that covert infiltration has left it misdirected and impotent, veering onto a completely different mission than it started out as... even if it is fulfilling to it's members.

Is this what 400 people put their name and reputation on the line for?
I Think Not.

With all due respect Mr. Greer, Mission Failed..

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
It is to be quite arrogant to believe, we know everything, and we master every science, and we understand how visitors from space are coming to our planet.

What I find even more interesting, is that us Human, have a hard time to learn from our past mistakes.

Blasphemy was the word used when we were told this planet wasn't flat. And where we discovered we were not the center of the universe. And do you remember when someone said we could fly?

So today, it's the same pattern repeating over. People denials can only last for so long, before we embrace the new science and the new spiritual world opening to us. 500 000 years of peace is coming to us, and nothing can stop it from happening, it's already there, we just have to find a way to materialise it.

I agree. Post ET disclosure is much more than an implication of new technologies. It is the maturing into a spirituality that will allow us to handle these technologies.

The people that have these technologies have not matured spiritually and the result is loss of the sharing of the technologies to improve the world and the abuse of power.

Tattoo1377, Steven Greer has 3 different missions.

Disclosure Project - Shining the light on the cover up, with witnesses.
Disclosure Project - New Energy - Zero Point Energy
CSETI - Training people for contact.

He has been doing that for years. You were just not aware of it.
He made it public through his book too.

Excellent Post
I am of the same conclusion....there are three types...

ETE that do not have M&M, but have light speed in quantum ships figured out.

ETE That have M&M

EDE

I think both points are completely valid.

Yes, Greer is now preaching very new age/spiritual practices which in the eyes of the secular/scientific world makes it hard to maintain credibility and detracts from innocent and extremely courageous witness testimony by default. So people who put thier reputation on the line for Greer may be thought of as being part of a new age group by association thus depleting thier repurtation in an already fringe field further. It also makes it hard for those of us who are believers to use the DP as the 'smoking gun' to convert non believers because the more they look into Greer the more they hear the new age stuff . This is annoying and I understand the frustration my brothers!

However, I also think Greer's entire immersion into the UFO culture is rooted in his claims to use meditation in vectoring in UFO's. According to him, without his immersion in meditation, he would not have been involved in the subject in the first place and would not have made the contacts he has with witnesses etc.... So his meditation/new age philosphy is central to his story, it's not something that came up overnight, at least not how he explains it. I also think the DP hit a brick wall after the press conference, if Bill Clinton and others aren't going to do anything about it, then maybe it's time for another approach? Namely, putting it all out on the table and saying what you really think regardless of the consequences.

So although it sucks that he has hurt his credibility with this new age stuff and by default potentially damaged the reputations/testimony of courageous witnesses associated with DP, it does seem the more mainstream methods of the DP were not going to change anything anytime soon since they didn't get continued press and the politicians were not going to do anything nor mainstream media. Therefore, I think he did need to switch up his approach to speed up things, regardless of what we think, and since he is the one that created the DP, he has the right to make it go down in flames as well (just IMO) Hopefully this will not be the case and he can get things done with his current methods. Although I do not see him being able to convert people to his new age beliefs without great evidence, if he can vector in a UFO for a G8 country or get another country to admit disclosure, then suddenly his new age stuff is some tasty kool aid, even for the non believers.

Time will hopefully tell whether he ends up in the UFO fraud hall of fame or whether CNN will feature clips from the recent french UFO landing.............

If Greer were a stock on Wall Street, I would wait to buy stock until there is a lot more proof, but if you already have stock, what do you have to lose? The price right now is very low....

I dated a girl for three years she told me in strict confidence one day about her abductions.

She never told anyone...she did not believe in UFO and had therefore some revealing information that I could collborate through my readings.

She told me she never told anyone because she was sure it must be a dream because she went through the window. She knows you cannot go through a window.

I told her, now mind you this is ten years ago...that in UFO literature it seems that this has occured to other abductees and that there are probably three types of others.
ET with light speed
ET with M&M
ED

I told her as a matter of fact going through that window may actually prove it was not a dream

I give you the words of Boyd Bushman from Lockheed Martin.


I believe Mother Nature does not speak English.
Mother Nature tells us what must be honored, and has been talking to us on many domains, and we have dataset's we're still trying to understand. I cannot talk to all the theoretician's because there are no theories were I am. What we have is wonderful, and it comes from miracles occurring, but that what we see will not be that what we have. To listen where languages are not taught and verbalization is not used.
But we have to learn its language

I tell my team, don't talk to me about things, you know, they have all that in production. Talk to me about things that we can only think of in dreams
We are alone in our walk but it is fullfilling.

The evidence of the separation of the galaxies is evidence of dark energy and antigravity.

Two equal weights were dropped. One made up of two North Pole magnets that oppose each other. Iron filing tests show that this showers out a magnetic plane. We wanted to see how this magnetic plane intersected with gravity. When dropped from a height, the duel North Pole magnet will land last.

We have refined, a device that as it charges will lift, because it is losing weight.


I think he is talking about telepathy with ET and ED as well as sacred geometry when he says mother nature does not speak english...
Just a guess but thats what I think.


[edit on 15-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by corsair00
People often are somewhat appalled, or more than slightly turned-off, by the so-called "New Age" views associated with UFOs. Steven Greer was very well known to be very respected in the disclosure movement and was taken seriously by many who understood the information he presented. But, when he started talking about things that initially sound flaky and New Age, such as "consciousness" and "Oneness" and "The Infinite" etc- people just can't get on with that. And why not? Is it scientific dogma? The days of the so-called "Enlightenment" of scientific empiricsm, rationalism and materialism are ending. This is clearly very very difficult for many people involved with UFOlogy. That is why I would like to remind you all of 2 very well-known and well-respected UFO researchers, who were involved in classified research, and their conclusions about UFOs. Do you remember, or even know, the names Josef Allen Hynek and/or Jacques Vallee? Here is some information to help acquaint you with them....

Jacques Vallee (the following text is from: www.ufoevidence.org... )

In his recent autobiographical book, Forbidden Science, Vallee summed up his views about the provenance of UFOs, a viewpoint that he's developed through decades of research: "The UFO Phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them." So much for anti-gravity-powered starships ferrying Big Brothers from outer space. Vallee thinks UFOs are likely "windows" to other dimensions manipulated by intelligent, often mischievous, always enigmatic beings we have yet to understand.

Vallee moved to America from his native France in the early 1960s, as young astronomer-turned-computer scientist. Vallee pioneered the use of computers to analyze and categorize the UFO phenomenon, and his 1965 book, Anatomy of a Phenomenon, is still considered one of the most scholarly books on UFOs ever written. At Northwestern University, Vallee assisted Prof. J. Allen Hynek, the academic consultant on the Air Force's infamous Project Bluebook, now seen by most saucer students as either a half-hearted government effort to address the UFO craze of the 1950s and 1960s or a full-blown coverup. While working with Hynek, Vallee and his wife, Janine, compiled the first-ever computer database of UFO sightings.

In 1969, Vallee published another groundbreaking book, Passport to Magonia, in which he collected a body of folkloric "myths" that read remarkably like modern UFO encounters, from Celtic tales of fairyland abductions to Biblical passages and medieval chronicles of "visitors" from beyond. Building on Carl Jung's thesis that UFOs are a sociological phenomenon, a product of the collective unconscious, Vallee forever left behind the space-bound E.T. theorists. But his folklorist's approach to the problem would influence a number of later researchers and writers who continue to echo his ideas about other-dimensional forms of consciousness. Best-selling author Whitley Strieber, Harvard "abductee psychologist" John Mack, and journalist Keith Thompson (author of Angels and Aliens all owe a debt to Vallee. Stephen Spielberg paid homage to Vallee in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, basing his French scientist character (played by Francois Truffaut) on the real French UFO theorist.


[edit on 22-4-2007 by corsair00]

excellent post...your a credit to the truth.
thanks for the links.

Originally posted by junglelord
ETE that do not have M&M, but have light speed in quantum ships figured out.
ETE That have M&M

What colour M&Ms do they have? Are they the nut-filled M&Ms?

How does an ET with chocolate relate to a thread about Greer's next conference? Is Greer offering ET M&Ms if they show up to his next vectoring party?

Sorry, your post really confused me.

Finally he introduced a third hypothesis. "I hold it entirely possible," he said, "that a technology exists, which encompasses both the physical and the psychic, the material and the mental. There are stars that are millions of years older than the sun. There maybe a civilization that is millions of years more advanced than man's. We have gone from Kitty Hawk to the moon in some seventy years, but it's possible that a million-year-old civilization may know something that we don't ... I hypothesize an 'M&M' technology encompassing the mental and material realms. The psychic realms, so mysterious to us today, may be an ordinary part of an advanced technology." (C. Fuller, 164-165)

from about five post up

Originally posted by junglelord
from about five post up

Oh, of course. How could I miss something as obvious as the definition for M&M, when it is buried inside a long quote from an external source that has nothing to do with Greer's latest conference?

My apologies.

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
Tattoo1377, Steven Greer has 3 different missions.

Disclosure Project - Shining the light on the cover up, with witnesses.
Disclosure Project - New Energy - Zero Point Energy
CSETI - Training people for contact.

He has been doing that for years. You were just not aware of it.
He made it public through his book too.

Thank you for the clarification on that ETDisclosure. You're right, I am ignorant to Dr. Greer's outline for the entire project. So forgive my boldness and please be patient with me, as I am trying to be sincere and open to you all.

With that being the case, my feeling (having watched the hour and half video of the witnesses ready for Congress and being truly inspired, hopeful, and motivated by it) is that focusing maximum energy on the first mission should be renewed, with faithful, relentless determination.

The world and public have a short attention span, and the first DP is VERY powerful and moving, as well as critical for the second and third to blossom.

IMO, the discussion of Zero-Point is very exciting and important, but will continue to be suppressed by 'Big Oil' (nor will a platform exist to apply it) until it is forcibly thrown into everyones face, empowered by 100% Success of the First Mission.

Then, and only then, will CSETI be relevant and practical on a global scale.
Until then, it's just preaching to the choir, IMO...

I hope I haven't come off too abrasive or skeptical, I'm just trying to be a realist.
Cheers!

you are not abrasive and the realist factor is needed to know why its out there but not mainstream...or even supressed.
Control and sale of energy is the biggest control mechanism there is.
So you got it right.