People have Faith in Aliens/UFO's why not God?

Originally posted by TheDuckster
I'd like to clarify a little bit about what I said.

The professor was asking about 'the mind of God', and if anyone could have proof of existance.

The student mirrored the professors questions back to him.

So in other words, just because we can't see the professors 'mind/soul', does it mean that the professor doesn't have one? That it doesn't exist?

They don't know the professor's mind. They can see and interact with the professor, as he is capable of stimulating all of their five physical senses. The professor exists as a real, living being capable of immediate communication with them.

They don't know God's mind. They can't see or interact with God, as it is not capable of stimulating any of their physical senses. God does not exist as a real, living being and is not capable of any immediate communication with them.

What exactly is your point with that ridiculous story?

Originally posted by TheDuckster

Originally posted by Flyer
That makes no sense at all, they could see the prof. and they could communicate with him. Going by basic logic, he then exists.

I cannot see the cd in my player but if I hear the music on, I can safely assume there is a disk in there, only a moron would think otherwise.

I'd like to clarify a little bit about what I said.

The professor was asking about 'the mind of God', and if anyone could have proof of existance.

The student mirrored the professors questions back to him.

So in other words, just because we can't see the professors 'mind/soul', does it mean that the professor doesn't have one? That it doesn't exist?

"To think, therefore, I am?" hmmm.

We can't 'see' the wind, but we know its' there because we feel it's presence, blowing across our skin. etc. etc.

He has a mind but no one can prove if a soul exists or not. Its almost impossible to prove a soul exists but it would be very simple for god to prove he exists. The mere fact that he has not done that should be enough to convince any rational person hes not there by the absence of proof.

If I said I had purple pixies living in my garden, would you believe me or want proof? Now if I couldnt provide proof, would you still believe me?

I think people are extremely gullible to believe in things without question. even if there was a god, billions of these people on this planet still believe in a non existent god. How many of these people will admit the fact that they could be wrong?

If the possibilities are indeed endless, wouldn't that make the existence of God one of those possibilities? Or is that where endless possibility ends?

Why is everyone directly attacking people whom have faith on this form? This form, as I see it, is meant to be one of the last bastions of free speech not constrained by social norms. In no other topic do people go on the direct offensive as they do with people who hold faith in a religion, even more so for people who believe in Christianity.
I am a Christian and I have a strong faith in God, however that faith is not blind. Though out my personal experiences I have felt the hand of a higher power guide me in my trouble times. However that feeling is not the only thing that my faith is built on.
Notably these following reasons I believe in God are not completely empirical, however not much in science is, nor do they directly relate to Christianity. However they do directly relate to Deism and I feel Christianity is my way of worshiping and communicating with God.

1) The human genome and other great scientific discoveries. The more one reads into science the more one sees this great structure. In physics we have almost found a unifying theory of everything with the String Theory, in Biology we have begun to unravel the human genome which is so complex it has taken us almost a decade with our high tech computers to crack, in Geology the beautifully complex relationship between time and pressure. I could go on but I am sure you get the idea. The further we look this the likely hood of this all being just a coincidence seems more and more absurd. Einstein a mans whose intellect far surpasses myself or anyone who is reading this post himself said three extremely powerful quotes.
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
2) There is also Plato’s writing of the Socratic Method which I am sure the majority of the people on these boards are familiar with. Basically in order to find the ultimate truth we must continue asking questions to find the answer. Basically picture every even from your birth to the big bang as links in a chain; these chains have to end somewhere. Every effect has a cause and every cause an effect so what was the first cause. This converted long time atheist Robert L. Johnson along with many others to Deism.
www.deism.com...

There are also many other arguments for Gods existence. If you are interested click en.wikipedia.org...

Just because a person has faith that does not make him an idiot or a simpleton in fact belief in a God and a betterment of yourself is something to admire. So I want all of you whom attack those that believe in a higher power to ask yourself why you do so. Is it because something is missing in your life?

I am glad that I have faith because a giant hole inside me is filled and I do not have to drug myself up with antidepressants or need to focus on instant gratification like many of my atheist friends do.

But the best thing about faith is that you do not have to justify why you have faith to anyone.

I think again this is coming back to faith..

There is an interesting quote from the bible where God basically says that one must have faith to find him. Faith being the single most important thing above all. We were given free will, as we had asked, thus excluding ourselves from our creator.

Originally posted by tezzajw
When you first use the word 'pitiful' against me (to put me down), that's a provocative act of hostility.

??

I haven't used the word 'pitiful' in regards to you.

Nevermind....I suppose you're better off.

Originally posted by TheStev
If the possibilities are indeed endless, wouldn't that make the existence of God one of those possibilities? Or is that where endless possibility ends?

Of course its possible but Ill go back to my purple pixie argument.

Thats possible but are you going to believe in them despite a single shred of evidence.

Most people who dont believe in god are perfectly willing to accept he exists if they have proof presented. Almost no one who believes in god are willing to accept the fact that he doesnt exist.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by tezzajw
When you first use the word 'pitiful' against me (to put me down), that's a provocative act of hostility.

??

I haven't used the word 'pitiful' in regards to you.

Nevermind....I suppose you're better off.

Quote Mr Penny from Post ID 3013241: "The omnipotence of God brushes aside your pitiful attempts to deny what I and many others have total faith in."

You described my attempts to deny God as being 'pitiful'. You used the word pitiful against me with regards to me. That's an act of biased hostility when you describe what I do as being 'pitiful'.

Originally posted by Ashley_T
I think again this is coming back to faith..

There is an interesting quote from the bible where God basically says that one must have faith to find him. Faith being the single most important thing above all. We were given free will, as we had asked, thus excluding ourselves from our creator.

Ok, youll only find the purple pixies if you believe in them. That way, anyone who doesnt believe in them has only themselves for not finding them.

Thats a silly argument. Its basically saying only blind, unquestioning faith will do. The sort of thing you get with cults but thats no surprise as all religions are just cults, albeit accepted cults anyway.

Brant and I seem to be of the same mindset and feeling.

Its something found in both the Qur'an and the bible. Its called the Holy Spirit.

Faithful questions are at heart of faithful devotion. The Holy Spirit provides the believer with passion for understanding and belief.

Also, I don't know if you know this but Jesus Christ is most quotes prophet in the Qu'ran.

If hundreds of millions of people across the globe claimed that pixies lived in your garden, then yes - I would start to suspect that there were some kind of pixies living in your garden. Sure, people across the globe might be making completely different claims about what type of pixies live in your garden, but the fact that they all believe those pixies exist - to me - means there may well be pixies living in your garden.

Why are the people who believe in God required to admit they might be wrong, but people like yourself - who don't believe in God - are not?

Its basically saying only blind, unquestioning faith will do.

I think perhaps you need to look at the definition of faith, as blind & unquestioning is the only flavour it comes in. Sure, you can question your faith, but as - by definition - there is no evidence, it will be pointless.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by TheStev]

Originally posted by TheStev
If hundreds of millions of people across the globe claimed that pixies lived in your garden, then yes - I would start to suspect that there were some kind of pixies living in your garden. Sure, people across the globe might be making completely different claims about what type of pixies live in your garden, but the fact that they all believe those pixies exist - to me - means there may well be pixies living in your garden.

If they had evidence to support that belief, then why not? There's hundreds of people across the world throughout many years that have great evidence for aliens/ufos.

However, if the hundreds of millions of people believed in pixies without evidence, then that would suggest that they are delusional. We should at least expect to see pictures, video, footprints of pixies and reliable eyewitness accounts of pixies. We could even hope to have recovered some crashed pixie-cars to reverse engineer them. The belief (without evidence) of pixies in the garden means nothing, regardless the magnitude of the believers.

Billions of people can believe in God. Without evidence or proof, it is just a myth. We all know that God is a badger residing inside the Earth with a colony of wave-surfing midgets inside.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by TheStev
If hundreds of millions of people across the globe claimed that pixies lived in your garden, then yes - I would start to suspect that there were some kind of pixies living in your garden. Sure, people across the globe might be making completely different claims about what type of pixies live in your garden, but the fact that they all believe those pixies exist - to me - means there may well be pixies living in your garden.

So basically you follow the crowd and dont make up your own mind? I prefer to think for myself. Id also ask for proof and say the claim is wrong when that proof fails to appear.

Originally posted by TheStev
Why are the people who believe in God required to admit they might be wrong, but people like yourself - who don't believe in God - are not?

I guess you missed my post above.

If god presented proof that he existed, Id think the people who said he didnt exist are fools just like the people who think he exists now without a shred of evidence are fools. Im always willing to change my mind on things however religious people are not. Thats why they cannot be taken seriously.

Originally posted by tezzajw
You described my attempts to deny God as being 'pitiful'. You used the word pitiful against me with regards to me. That's an act of biased hostility when you describe what I do as being 'pitiful'.

O.K., now I see what you mean. mea culpa.

It's a fine line to draw, but my intent was to characterize the 'attempt'. I did not intend to ascribe a 'pitiful' state to you as a human. In much the same way that a normally powerful baseball batter makes a pitiful attempt to hit a really good 12 to 6 curve ball.

Its not me projecting God on you. God already is. If I weren't here telling you this...God would still be. I can't change that, nor can you. Deny it all you want to. You cannot change it.

Originally posted by TheStev
I think perhaps you need to look at the definition of faith, as blind & unquestioning is the only flavour it comes in. Sure, you can question your faith, but as - by definition - there is no evidence, it will be pointless.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by TheStev]

Not true, there are many religious people who have their doubts about their faith (which is not meant in the literal meaning.)


[edit on 8-3-2007 by Flyer]

Originally posted by tezzajw
If they had evidence to support that belief, then why not?

Funny, I see evidence of God constantly. I can't avoid it. Sunrises, violent thunderstorms, my wife, the awesome energy of this planet.....God surrounds us......

Originally posted by Kacen
Because the existance of life on other planets does not defy science in any way.

However religion does sort of defy science. And I don't want to cause a huge religious argument but faith basically equals a bizarre excuse to believe in something. Faith is utterly stupid. Hey I might as well say I have faith that there is a large badger at the center of the earth, and within this badger lives a colony of midgets who surf in their free time.

Apparently, because I have "faith" in it, it makes it perfectly okay to believe in such a thing.

People believe in life on other planets because
A) Theres life on this one.
B) There are other planets, most we haven't discovered.
C) The simple possibilities are endless.

However god is just...there is no...theres many scientific expla...eh...you've probably heard it a million times, its utterly useless, these arguments. So I might as well not continue.

I take it your an athiest Kacen? If that is so, I am as well. I know exactly what your saying. I am amazed at the kind of fanatascism and zeal people have for believing something just because their parents taught it to them. People say things like 'Aliens? Crazy child, there are no aliens!' yet they preach about Adam ripping off his own rib and casting it away and turning it into a woman. Gee, which sounds more plausable? And I love how the bible makes up for all of the crap it states by saying 'Ohhh uhmm...Yeah see the reason none of this amazing super natural stuff is gonna happen when your reading this, is because uhhh.....god ended all of it at this time, sorry''.

Do you know what I wear around my neck? Yes, I wear a crucifix. Do you know why? Probably not. Do you honestly think I believe in all of this junk like Adam and Eve, and Noah's Ark? No. I wear a cruxifix because the bible, and Jesus (Who I believe did NOT exist by the way) represent certain moral values, IE: The ten commandments. When I wear this cross I stand for those morals, not a bunch of crap that makes no sense in some old book. Thats what true religion should be about, using your 'god' or 'idol' as a SYMBOL for all of these good qualities, not believing that you have to worship the god itself. Thats what people fail to see. People get caught up so much in all of this stuff about 'OH LORDY LORDY! PRAISE THE GOOD LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR ALL OF THE THINGS HES GIVEN US!'. Thats BS. Let me ask you, you get into a car wreck but survive, then you say 'Oh thank god I didn't get hurt'. Yeah, sure, thank god you didn't get hurt. Guess what? Apparently god made it so that your car would still get wrecked. Why didn't he just stop it from happening at all? Its a bunch of #. It makes no sense. It has a bunch of coverups and brainwashing crap in it.

You people don't stand for god. You stand for what you THINK is god. Your mommy and daddy took you to church on sundays and told you crap about Jesus. You think thats religion, faith, god? No. You people who are the 'good little christians' pull pranks, laugh at people, act rude, do stupid things. If you actually had faith, and believed in your god, you wouldn't do that kind of stuff. Let me ask you, do you think if knew, without a DOUBT that if you did bad things like that, you'de go to hell, that you'de do them? OF COURSE NOT! You would watch your every step. But deep down, even if you say you don't, you have serious doubts about the existence of your so called 'god'. Thats why you act like you do. Then you come up with the 'Oh but I'm only human, I make mistakes' argument. Man is not perfect, but didn't god build you in his image? So why do you defy him? Theres imperfection then theres going against your god.

I hope those of you who actually believe this stuff give some thought to this. The bible is full of 'what ifs' and 'could bes', never a true word. There is no other documents to prove this stuff, and science disproves it all. Why do you believe something you don't know of?

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by tezzajw
I don't believe in God, it doesn't exist. Don't try to state that God is the collective Father for us, when it isn't.

Sorry, but my God teaches me that He is your Father also....whether you like it or not. The omnipotence of God brushes aside your pitiful attempts to deny what I and many others have total faith in.
[edit on 8-3-2007 by MrPenny]

Your pitiful faith is an example of omnipotent stupidity. You can claim all you like in knowing how YOU were created and what YOUR place is in this universe.

Keep your egocentric claims to yourself and don't extend them to me by trying to inform me that I'm a product of a fictional character.

I have no problem with people believing in a God for them, that's fine, we need a certain amount of delusional people in the world to make mass control that much easier for the masters. Just don't go over-extending your beliefs by trying to include me in YOUR God's plans. God does not exist to me, or for me.

so does it make you feel smarter than everyone because you don't believe in God? is that why you're atheist? sorry, Atheist, need to show more respect...

Originally posted by MrPenny
O.K., now I see what you mean. mea culpa.

Its not me projecting God on you. God already is. If I weren't here telling you this...God would still be. I can't change that, nor can you. Deny it all you want to. You cannot change it.

You used the word 'pitiful' in a hostile context to sweep me aside in favour of an omnipotent God. That's the fact.

God does not project on me. It can't, it doesn't exist. It may project over you and your beliefs, but I choose not to enter the world of the fantastical.

I started off as an atheist up until I turned 20 years old. I started reading and taking interest in historic gospels and praying. Things started getting better and I started getting a greater understanding in my life. So I guess in my case it was rare to have no outside influence.