Mideast War - Isreal Is Getting Ready

zeropointtruth,

In addition to the trophy system there is the Iron fist system that the Israeli military industries developed.
see link here

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

To all you Israel-haters out there:
You seem to misread the situation. Israel is getting ready for war because it is evident. why???

I for don't hate Israel, I hate their HR regimes. I know many Isreals who have moved because of the regime

1- Iran is intervening in Iraq against the US and American troops are getting killed. That is good enough reason to attack Iran.

But the US and allied troops shouldn't have been there. In a scenerio more oppropitely linked to you. Would you let you neighbours be a victim to an unprovoked attacked or would you sit back and be a armchair pundit, trying to figure out all the vague reasons he deserved it"

2- A nuclear Iran is a treat to all Sunni nations and that is why Qatar, Oman and Saudi Arabia gave their OK to attack Iran through its territory. It is in Saudi's interest that Iran is disarmed just as much as it is Israel's.

YOU prove to me that Iran has nuclear power to be used for war and enerygy! This is has yet to be proved., even so the US are allowed to bear arms for personal safety. Why can't countries protect them selves. Nuclear prolifrication is a load of balls.

3- Iran is 49% minority groups that are not necessarily fond of the brutish Shiite regime. Their economy is in shambles and their human rights records in horrendous. Therefore Iran is not a natural nation and will sooner or later collapse into its regular multi-national form or rather become a moderate, democratic country.

The have no more human rights issues than any other country, infact theirs is superior to Israels and Saudi's..Have a look at a few HR websites! I work with a group of Iranian women, some are the best educated, cosmopolitian and tolerant in the world. Please explain a natural nation? The Majority of countries are not natural.

Iran supports internationally recognized terrorist entities such as Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbullah who are known for their fondness of Jewish Civilians. This gives Israel the right to kick those Polow eating, primitive pieces of Shiites back to the middle ages if it so chooses.

Most countries in the world do! Most countries support soem terrorist group. The US supported The IRA and Saddam Hussen, they supported the Taliban until they served no useful purpose..It must be so lovely for you to feel so superior towards these primitive pieces of Shiites but just remember the these peoples had civilised this world millenia before you were a twinkle in your fathers eyes..Reading, learning and tolerance is a great gift! Try it!

My guess is Israel is prepping from the repercussions of the US attack on Iran which means a war against the Palestinians (who will attack Israel on command from their patrons), Hezbullah (ditto) and possibly Syria as well.

[edit on 5/3/07 by JudahMaccabbi]

[edit on 5/3/07 by JudahMaccabbi]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Israel does not put homosexuals to death, does not kill and rape journalists who are in custody and does not provide weapons to internationally recognized terrorist groups.

if i lived in the West Bank or Gaza i'd regard the entire Israeli state as a 'terrorist group'.

They may not have murdered homsexuals or raped and killed journalists for been, well, homosexual or a journalist, but how many homosexuals and journalists have they killed for been Palestinian?

i believe the number of Palestinian violent deaths at Israeli hands is over 4000 since 2000AD... How many further have died through inadequate health care? How many have met an early death due to poor malnutrition, poor infrastructure etc?

Originally posted by shackleton
if i lived in the West Bank or Gaza i'd regard the entire Israeli state as a 'terrorist group'.

Well, I tend to view the entire arab world as a "terrorist state." So that doesnt mean squat.

Murphs greetings,

Excuse my ignorance what is HR?


Regarding Iraq . . .

But the US and allied troops shouldn't have been there. In a scenerio more oppropitely linked to you. Would you let you neighbours be a victim to an unprovoked attacked or would you sit back and be a armchair pundit, trying to figure out all the vague reasons he deserved it"

You seem to forget that Iran and Iraq were at war for a very long time and both did not care too much for one another. therefore your comparison is not valid. What would suite your arguement better is the attack on Afghanistan although that was not unprovoked being that Afghanistan harbored Al-Qaeida.

YOU prove to me that Iran has nuclear power to be used for war and enerygy! This is has yet to be proved., even so the US are allowed to bear arms for personal safety. Why can't countries protect them selves. Nuclear prolifrication is a load of balls.

I can answer you in your own words - You prove to me that they are NOT developing nuclear weapons. Too many coutries, even those neutral in the political arena have voiced concern over a nuclear Iran.
Regarding their right to develop nuclear arms. Iran signed a pact not to develop arms in return for nuclear knowledge know that they gained that knowledge under that PACT they are clandestinely developing nuclear arms. That is what makes it unacceptable. Another reason is that Iran is one of the only countries in the middle east who voiced their desire to annhilate another country in the region. Giving Iran a nuclear weapon is like releasing a rapist in a nudist colony.

The have no more human rights issues than any other country, infact theirs is superior to Israels and Saudi's..Have a look at a few HR websites! I work with a group of Iranian women, some are the best educated, cosmopolitian and tolerant in the world. Please explain a natural nation? The Majority of countries are not natural.

That is not accurate, I already pointed out on this thread here regarding this issue (HR issues).
I myself had plenty of Iranian friends (being that I am of Iranian ancestry), hell I can even understand Persian. Iranians are educated people but then again these Iranians are the same people who left Iran when Iran became an Islamic state.

Most countries in the world do! Most countries support soem terrorist group. The US supported The IRA and Saddam Hussen, they supported the Taliban until they served no useful purpose..It must be so lovely for you to feel so superior towards these primitive pieces of Shiites but just remember the these peoples had civilised this world millenia before you were a twinkle in your fathers eyes..Reading, learning and tolerance is a great gift! Try it!

Like I said, I am of Iranian ancestry so I do know of Iran's great civilization. Guess what, I am also of Afghani and Uzbeki ancestry so you do not need to lecture me.
But when Iran pays and trains people to kill children on a bus for the sole purpose of their being Jewish (which is exactly what Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbullah does) then as I said Israel has every right to kick their peice of Shiite ass to Allah-land.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by shackleton
if i lived in the West Bank or Gaza i'd regard the entire Israeli state as a 'terrorist group'.

Well, I tend to view the entire arab world as a "terrorist state." So that doesnt mean squat.

i do apologise for lack of clarity in my response, i was merely trying to point out that Israel is no better/worse than Iran...

so i believe we are in agreement with each other

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Well, I tend to view the entire arab world as a "terrorist state." So that doesnt mean squat.

why the hatred, ohan?

the entire arab world isn't terrorist. hell, most people in the arab world care about as much about that type of political movement as the "western" world. here in the west, however, we have stability.

I think this is very sad...future of our youth...

Watch the videos and remember "With our obsession with antagonisms of the
moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. I occasionally think how quickly our differences, worldwide, would vanish
if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world." .. Former President Ronald Reagan, while sharing the stage with former Russian leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, 1988.


Jewish Setlers Throw Rocks At Palestinians Trying to go Home and Film Crew
www.liveleak.com...



Israeli Settlers Stone Human Rights Workers in Hebron Marked as: Mature, Featured
On June 14, 2006 at approximately 12:30 PM, two Human Rights Workers (HRWs) on Shuhada Street noticed a group of between 8 and 10 settlers boys between the ages of 9 and 12 carrying plastic bags filled with water. The boys were coming out of the Beit Hadassah settlement and were headed up the stone stairs towards Qurtoba, a Palestinian school building. The HRWs followed the boys to the stairs and were attacked with the bags of water. The soldier on duty at the Israeli military post spoke to the HRWs in Hebrew and made gestures for them to leave. The HRWs told the soldiers they only spoke English and asked him to get the kids to stop attacking them. The soldier did nothing and the children began throwing rocks at the HRWs.

www.liveleak.com...

As usual, the whole idea of who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter coming down to people's own perspectives. Blah blah the Israelis kicked out the Palestinians... blah blah the Israelis have a right to live there... etc.

Way I see it, this bs has been going on for thousands and thousands of years. Short of a full out nuclear war in the Middle East that erases all life in the small Jewish state, does anyone truly believe it's going to stop now? Peace treaties, peace accords, peace prizes, false info, wars over territory, wars over religion, wars over oil, will continue as long as we're alive. As long as there are differing religious people in that region, problems will persist, and as long as we continue supporting Israel and sticking our noses into other people's affairs, the Middle East will continue to hate us. Until the oil wells dry up, anyways. Then maybe we can stop caring about the Middle East so much, unless there is a sudden increase in demand in the sand industry.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by el_madmaster]

Originally posted by zeropointtruth
I think this is very sad...future of our youth...


Jewish Setlers Throw Rocks At Palestinians Trying to go Home and Film Crew

Thats really sad. Strange how the 2 peoples differ. The Palestinians throw rocks at occupiers for their abuse and the settlers throw rocks at Palestinians just for being Palestinians and the HRW or news crews for being there helping the Palestinians. The IDF soldier is just a typical IDF loser. The majority of them are like that when it comes to the occupied people. The idiot thought the HRW were British and told them to go back to England.

Interesting to note that the largest Jewish population in the Middle East, outside of Israel, lives in Iran. Though many chose to leave during the Islamic revolution, the current population is estimated to be 25,000 - 35,000. The Iranian Jewish community has representation in the Iranian Parliment, and is protected under a fatwa (laws) issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini at the end of the Islamic revolution. Evidentally, the capitol of Tehran currently has eleven functioning synagogues.

This group identifies itself as 'Orthodox Jewish'...as opposed to 'Zionist'. Intrestingly, Ahmadinejad has described himself anti-zionist...not anti-Jewish.

The US has been consistent in it's policy towards Iran for decades...consistently antagonistic. We (CIA) aided the overthrow of a democratically elected president, and succesfully installed a 'client' government with the Shah in the 50's. When the Shah was ousted in 1979....we then supported Saddam Hussein in his attack on Iran a year later...and continued to support him throught the war. Then, we subsquently turned on Iraq.

The war hasn't gone well for the US...the removal of Saddam has only served to embolden Iran, as Hussein was the stop gap to expansion of Iranian (Shi'a) influence in the region.

To date, our policies in the ME have been dismal failures. Now it appears that Iran is back in the crosshairs of an administration whose decisions, based solely upon neocon ideologies, is prepared to take us from-bad-to-worse...with Israel in the lead.

I previously posted this elsewhere, but I believe it's worthy of a re-post. Those we would kill: /yvo74d

Thanks for the thought provoking commentary on this thread.

Peace &
Good Fortune
OBE1

Isreal is a terrorist state imo.

And like all other groups mentioned, it uses over the top violence. The only difference is Isreal uses conventional weapons not car bombs etc.

Ok they whole middle east was put in the situation by history, the people who are living there now cannot change the past so its time to work for a future.

The problem is the Muslims have a long memory and don´t like having the Isreali thorn in thier side so this will never end until Isreal or all Islamic states are wiped out.

Sad very sad for the normal people living there.

Originally posted by OBE1
Interesting to note that the largest Jewish population in the Middle East, outside of Israel, lives in Iran. Though many chose to leave during the Islamic revolution, the current population is estimated to be 25,000 - 35,000. The Iranian Jewish community has representation in the Iranian Parliment, and is protected under a fatwa (laws) issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini at the end of the Islamic revolution. Evidentally, the capitol of Tehran currently has eleven functioning synagogues.

This group identifies itself as 'Orthodox Jewish'...as opposed to 'Zionist'. Intrestingly, Ahmadinejad has described himself anti-zionist...not anti-Jewish.

Someone seems to forget that in recent years a group of 13 Jews disappeared and where subsequently found jailed for fraudulent charges of spying for Israel. Additionally more Jews disappeared with no trace. Jews in Iran speak against Israel because imagine what would happen if they spoke against Iran or for Israel.

The US has been consistent in it's policy towards Iran for decades...consistently antagonistic. We (CIA) aided the overthrow of a democratically elected president, and succesfully installed a 'client' government with the Shah in the 50's.

If you wish to be accurate it was British deception that convinced the US that the prime minister of Iran, Mohammed Mossadeq, was sympathetic to the Comunists and he nationalized the oil industry in Iran. The Brits where pretty pissed off.

This all came AFTER the previous pro-western Prime minister, Ali Razmara, was assassinated by Islamic terrorists. The terrorist who perpetrated this attack is currently hailed a hero in Iran.

Its all a matter perception.

When the Shah was ousted in 1979....we then supported Saddam Hussein in his attack on Iran a year later...and continued to support him throught the war. Then, we subsquently turned on Iraq.

Simplistic to say the least. Yes we supported Iraq because he fought our enemy, but he later TURNED on US by attacking, conquering and ransacking Kuwait.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Someone seems to forget that in recent years a group of 13 Jews disappeared and where subsequently found jailed for fraudulent charges of spying for Israel. Additionally more Jews disappeared with no trace. Jews in Iran speak against Israel because imagine what would happen if they spoke against Iran or for Israel.

I repeat; the largest Jewish population in the Middle East, outside of Israel, lives in Iran.

If you wish to be accurate it was British deception that convinced the US that the prime minister of Iran, Mohammed Mossadeq, was sympathetic to the Comunists and he nationalized the oil industry in Iran. The Brits where pretty pissed off.

How altruistic of the US! Let's see, we were 'deceived' by the UK...and our only motive for meddling in the internal political affairs of a sovereign nation was to benefit the British. Got it! lol!

And how about the gall of that Mossadeq!...moving to nationalize HIS country's oil! One word: Venezuela.

This all came AFTER the previous pro-western Prime minister, Ali Razmara, was assassinated by Islamic terrorists. The terrorist who perpetrated this attack is currently hailed a hero in Iran.

Hailed as a hero in his own homeland?..after assasinating a 'client' PM? And after the West had been so kind with Iran!...some people just have no gratitude!

Its all a matter perception.

Ah!...I knew we could find some common ground.

Simplistic to say the least. Yes we supported Iraq because he fought our enemy

Our enemy? Whose enemy?...Israel's?

but he later TURNED on US by attacking, conquering and ransacking Kuwait.

So this is why Bush Jr deposed Hussein, and destroyed the country formerly known as Iraq....Kuwait....glad I finally understand.

The reference in my previous post was related to our removal of Hussein, after having once supported (used) him against Iran. It was unrelated to the first Gulf War.

However, since you brought it up......Kuwait was about oil from all perspectives, including that of Saddam (in the ME it always is). The Iran-Iraq war left Saddam's economy in tatters, and Kuwait was syphoning off (slant-drilling) an estimated $14 billion US in Iraqi oil in the border area. The despotic Emir of Kuwait was not open to negotiations, and he was encouraged not to be.

Five days before the invasion, in a meeting with US ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie...Glaspie told Saddam that "the US takes no position on Iraq's dispute with Kuwait."

It's difficult to prevent war, when your intention is to provoke war. How did the US benefit from this manipulated situation? We got to build more bases...to house more troops. In short, the invasion of Kuwait allowed the US to increase it's influence, and military presence in the region...and with one intention...more leverage over oil production, dustribution, and costs.

Not only Kuwait, but King Fahd invited US troops to Saudi Arabia. Additionally, it was this ongoing presence of 'infidel' troops on Saudi soil that Osama BL cited as justification to attack Americans...anywhere in the world. Nice side benefit huh?

A must read: 'The Grand Chessboard' by Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Peace &
Good Fortune
OBE1

Originally, thousands of years ago, the Jews/Hebrews immigrated from Iran area (wasn't called Iran back then) to the Israel region. They were fleeing persecution.

Originally posted by OBE1
I repeat; the largest Jewish population in the Middle East, outside of Israel, lives in Iran.

No point made. Jews stayed in Iran for various reasons. The Islamic revolution created 4 million refugees. Jews who wish to stay did so out of their choice fact of the matter is that most left.

BTW Turkey has 30,000 Jews - Again what is your point? That the Islamic Iranian regime is good?

And how about the gall of that Mossadeq!...moving to nationalize HIS country's oil! One word: Venezuela.

Another Hugo Chavez fan. I work with a Venezualan who thinks he's a total LOON. Look at where is got Mossadeq and my guess is that Chavez will wilter away into nothingness soon enough. He is stepping on too many toes. This includes his foreign policies.
Anymore pointless points?

Simplistic to say the least. Yes we supported Iraq because he fought our enemy

Our enemy? Whose enemy?...Israel's?

NO! Israel never had an issue with Iran. In the 80s Iran's only true nemesis was the US (the Great Satan). With the onset of initiating hostilities with Israel, Israel got involved.

but he later TURNED on US by attacking, conquering and ransacking Kuwait.

So this is why Bush Jr deposed Hussein, and destroyed the country formerly known as Iraq....Kuwait....glad I finally understand.

Reading comprehension is soooo important!
The first Gulf war was a result of Iraqi aggression. I was referring to the first Gulf war. The second gulf war was something that should have occured back in 1991.

The reference in my previous post was related to our removal of Hussein, after having once supported (used) him against Iran. It was unrelated to the first Gulf War.

Thanks for clearing that up. The fact that the US supported him does not mean that they shold support him later on as well. If he becomes dangerous he should be dealt with.

However, since you brought it up...

...Kuwait was about oil from all perspectives, including that of Saddam (in the ME it always is). The Iran-Iraq war left Saddam's economy in tatters, and Kuwait was syphoning off (slant-drilling) an estimated $14 billion US in Iraqi oil in the border area. The despotic Emir of Kuwait was not open to negotiations, and he was encouraged not to be.

Five days before the invasion, in a meeting with US ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie...Glaspie told Saddam that "the US takes no position on Iraq's dispute with Kuwait."

It's difficult to prevent war, when your intention is to provoke war. How did the US benefit from this manipulated situation? We got to build more bases...to house more troops. In short, the invasion of Kuwait allowed the US to increase it's influence, and military presence in the region...and with one intention...more leverage over oil production, dustribution, and costs.

Not only Kuwait, but King Fahd invited US troops to Saudi Arabia. Additionally, it was this ongoing presence of 'infidel' troops on Saudi soil that Osama BL cited as justification to attack Americans...anywhere in the world. Nice side benefit huh?

Ahh! Conspiracies - I forget. The fact that Sadaam Hussein was a rabid pitbull played no part in it right? The fact that he had a WMD program in 1991 had no part in the matter? The fact that he warred with all his neighbors was no problem?
I think that the lesson learned from WWII is that foreign policy needs to be proactive and not passive or responsive. If a threat is identified then it needs to be handled diplomatically (at first) and then when all else fails militarily before the threat becomes too big.

BTW, that is what is happening today with Iran.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Ahh! Conspiracies - I forget. The fact that Sadaam Hussein was a rabid pitbull played no part in it right? The fact that he had a WMD program in 1991 had no part in the matter? The fact that he warred with all his neighbors was no problem?
I think that the lesson learned from WWII is that foreign policy needs to be proactive and not passive or responsive. If a threat is identified then it needs to be handled diplomatically (at first) and then when all else fails militarily before the threat becomes too big.

BTW, that is what is happening today with Iran.

JudahMaccabbi, I have come across a number of your posts during last few days. You give the impression of a person who has two mouths and one ear!


I am going to attempt to present to you the other side of the coin. A lot of moral and logical and psycological analysis you provide of "certain people" you present are quite valid and surprisingly you are able to describe all the wrong traits and attitudes that one should not have, however, are completely oblivious to the fact that you are suffering from the same attitude and behaviour you are writing against!



Here is 7 clips of video proving again Saddam was not the only guilty party. He had partners who helped him. Ironically, some people still believe they are fond of democracy in the region.Democracy at the expense of genocide at developing countries.Who cares?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please watch by clicking this link.


www.informationclearinghouse.info...


Why was Saddam executed so quickly I wonder?




[edit on 11-3-2007 by zurvan]

double post!


[edit on 11-3-2007 by zurvan]

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
Originally, thousands of years ago, the Jews/Hebrews immigrated from Iran area (wasn't called Iran back then) to the Israel region. They were fleeing persecution.

Thank you for this new version of history.

I think if you could now wipe the history then you can get away with it.

Iran has been called Iran for thousand of years. You are right in recent history Iran has had a different name in the "west" but for Iranians Iran is a multi millenia name!!!

Iran was a jewish settlement from thousands of years back. It was Cyrus the Persian king who freed the Jewish from Babelonians and gave them support to rebuild Jurusalem! would you care to provide any evidence of your claim that Jewish were ever prosecuted by Persian Kings( government system) in the previous millenia. Mind you I am not talking about the current government!

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
When the Shah was ousted in 1979....we then supported Saddam Hussein in his attack on Iran a year later...and continued to support him throught the war. Then, we subsquently turned on Iraq.

you should rephrase the quoted sentence to:
we put Saddam in power by helping him to stage a coup.
When the Shah was ousted in 1979....we then

1) gave him plans and the green light on attacking Iran
2)Supported Saddam in his attack on Iran a year later... and contnued to support him thought the war by giving him Intelligence(Sattelite, etc), Weapons (incl WMDs), stood by while his forces massacred civilians namely Kurds.

after the war with Iran we told him that we will stay out of Kuwait dispute. but didn't, however, we just kicked him out of Kuwait and watched him kill thousands of his people in a bid to stay in power.

Then we stuck sanctions on Iraqi people as we knew that the sanctions did not affect Saddam. Killing thousands of civilians in process. ( see the video link above) Then, we subsquently turned on Iraq!

Much more accurate don't you think?

[edit on 11-3-2007 by zurvan]

[edit on 11-3-2007 by zurvan]

[edit on 11-3-2007 by zurvan]