Chemtrails: Simple way to verify?

Well work this one out then....

I live in SW France and have just observed something I thought was strange

We are having particularly dry and hot weather for this time of year, and for the first time in months there was a storm passing overhead.

I first observed a number of high altitude planes on route heading north from Bordeaux airport with what I would call "normal" trails that dissappeared after a few minutes, I see them all the time.

Then I observed a military plane (flight path SW from "chateaubernard" military air base 10k away) travelling at a slightly lower altitude with no trails at all.

After 5 minutes, I observed planes at a similar altitude to the first ones flying in front of the storm that left trails that lingered and spread out completely.

The storm passed over, rumbling as it went but there was no rainfall.

My point is: how can three types of plane leave three different types of trail in the same area at the same time.

I will be observing plane trails from now on in this area and will try to record things for future analysis.

p.s. my nose has been itching today??? Could be spring pollen but who knows

Because they were at different altitudes. The window where contrails are formed is actually quite small. IIRC it's just a few thousand feet. Higher or lower and there isn't enough moisture in the air for a contrail to form.

As for persistent contrails being recent, I've read reports from B-17 crews in WWII talking about how they "blocked out the sky" with contrails that lingered all day, and they joked about how they "changed the weather over Europe" by leaving clouds from their contrails.

Here's a decent page about contrails for you to read up on.

Originally posted by nerbot
My point is: how can three types of plane leave three different types of trail in the same area at the same time.

Looking out my window right now, i see two planes flying in parallel, spraying.. random synchronicity, seeing as i've been looking out for them today and seen none, but as soon as i look at this thread, then look outside they are there...anyways;

Ive seen planes flying at the same altitude, in the same airspace, at very close intervals, and some planes leave contrails which dissipate whilst the plane is still in visual range, and others leave trails which linger for hours..

Just realised that the direction the planes are flying (in Leeds, UK) is towards the military installation known as Echelon, the communication interception base North of Leeds.

Anyone know of any actual military bases in that direction, or how to find them on Google Earth?

And you can tell they're at the same altitude how? You CAN'T tell they're at the same altitude from looking up at them from the ground. They could easily be several thousand feet apart.

So, if you can tell they're at the same altitude you shouldn't have any trouble telling me exactly what altitude this plane is flying at from this picture.




Edit to add this image:

What altitude are these two at? The same? One higher?






[edit on 4/28/2007 by Zaphod58]

Your questioning my visual skills, what do you expect me to say in return other than 'i know what i saw'. My home is very close to Heathrow airport, i have lived under the flightpath of many routes for years, including the concord when it was still in use..

I know what i saw.

Yes, because you cant look up and know their altitudes. Its like when people here say they saw an unmarked plane leaving chemtrails. Its impossible to look at a plane 6-8 miles high and probably offset laterally too, and be able to tell it is missing its any markings at all, like registation markings.

There are also lots of busy North Atlantic Tracks going from or overflying the UK towards North America. Do you know which direction flights from the UK to the US will be going?

Just realised that the direction the planes are flying (in Leeds, UK) is towards the military installation known as Echelon, the communication interception base North of Leeds.

Anyone know of any actual military bases in that direction, or how to find them on Google Earth?

How do you know its not flying in that direction on its way overseas?

[edit on 28-4-2007 by firepilot]

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Your questioning my visual skills, what do you expect me to say in return other than 'i know what i saw'. My home is very close to Heathrow airport, i have lived under the flightpath of many routes for years, including the concord when it was still in use..

I know what i saw.

I'm questioning your ability to look up at two planes flying over 30,000 feet high and say "Oh look! They're at the same altitude!" when no one else can do it without the use of transponder data from the planes. I've been around planes literally most of my life and I can't do it. I can't even tell how close they're flying when they're crossing at miles apart. The only way you can tell they're at the same altitude is to either be in the Center looking at the radar scope, or using some kind of online tracking software that gives you altitudes as it's flying.

They could also use flightaware.com or other flight tracking programs, but chemtrail believers usually avoid doing things like that.

I actually have known of some chemmies who decided to start trying to learn about different facets of aviation such as aircraft, how air traffic control works, how planes go from A to B, meteorology, but they usually quickly drop their chemtrails belief and move on.

Because they were at different altitudes. The window where contrails are formed is actually quite small. IIRC it's just a few thousand feet. Higher or lower and there isn't enough moisture in the air for a contrail to form.

Q: how many thousand feet?

OK...so the military plane I first mentioned was at a lower altitude, fair enough, but the group of planes I noticed all came from Bordeaux airport which is not that far away (40k or so). They would all climb to their cruising altitude at similar rates, would they not?, and would be at very similar heights at the point I saw them.
I will continue to observe things up there and will not be put off.

People just want to know more truth.

Thinking you know more about this than anyone else does not make you right

Prove us wrong

40 km is roughly 25 miles. Figuring an average of 2500 feet per minute climb rate, and a 275 kts climb, it would take a 747-400 roughly 65 miles to reach 35,000 feet. That's an AVERAGE climb, but by no means a standard climb. Newer planes have more powerful engines, and higher climb rates than the 744. I don't have exact figures right off the top of my head, or in front of me, but I know that there are civilian planes out there that can reach 35,000 faster than the 14 minutes that a 744 can.

There is also another condition that occurs during humid days that APPEARS to be a contrail, but isn't. It occurs at any altitude, and is caused by the extra moisture in the air.

So why is it that EVERY chemtrail thread, it's up to the person saying they DON'T exist, to prove they don't? The person that makes the extraordinary claim has the burden of proof on THEM to prove what they say is true.

And btw, where did I say I was an expert? I'm simply pointing out that you can't tell altitudes from the ground, and that the planes were flying at different altitudes, which is why some didn't have contrails and some did. So don't start putting up faces at me.

[edit on 4/28/2007 by Zaphod58]

The best way to verify chemtrails is to use time lapse photography. I use a cheap sony camera and run the video into an ATI w/MMC. Time lapse captures so much more detail such as spraying perpindicular to wind direction, from blue to grey-sky to cloud, grid patterns, etc.

No, the best way would be to have physical proof, which there is not any of. No photos of any modified airplanes in the air or parked at an airport.

You think it suspicious if some jet 7 miles above you has a flight path perpendicular to your winds on the ground?

How does a grid somehow mean spraying?