Chemtrails: Simple way to verify?

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Because Contrails have always been occassionally persistant since the dawn of high flying planes.

I will fully explain it as soon as I get the time.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PisTonZOR]

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Counter-question:
How do you explain the fact that, for these 'chem trails' to be the exotic threats and / or conspiracies that you claim, almost literally everybody on Earth would have to be in on the plot. Let's take a quick look:

1) The engineers at Boeing would have to be part of it. After all, the spray tanks and special spray rigs would have to be designed as part of the aircraft...the spray pumps would have to be part of the plane's electrical and / or hydraulic systems, and the fill / purge manifolds would have to fit in there someplace as well.

2) The maintenence crews would have to be part of it. After all, somebody has to take care of the spray rigs.

3) The service crews would have to be part of it, since *somehow* we have to get the whatever-it-is that we're spraying loaded into the tanks aboard the aircraft.

4) The flight crews would have to be part of it, since it would be hard not to notice the trim of the aircraft shifting as the spray tanks emptied...to say nothing of the whole 'flying back and forth' thing that a pilot would probably catch onto fairly fast.

5) The entire FAA, and every ATC in the US would have to be in on it, since the flight-path antics would show up on radar even to the most minimally-trained and visually impaired scope jockey.

By now, you've got tens if not hundreds of thousands of people making up a conspiracy. That's a *lot* of people to keep a secret for any length of time not measured in nanoseconds. Where are the leaked photos of a 7X7 with a spray rig in the wings? With all those people, and all those airplanes. a little photo evidence beyond the pictures of vapor trails doesn't seem like a lot to ask for.

There's also the question of 'why spray from an airplane at several thousand feet?", but given the character limit on posts, I'll have to save that one for a follow up.

So...you explain how several thousand people spread across the US, working in several different fields, for several different employers can carry out a covert operation, and I'll get right to work explaining why contrails persist, change shape, and occasionally come in assorted colors.

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Who told you contrails can not persist? Chemtrail websites?

Do you get alarmed when you see natural cirrus clouds, or if you see white crystals that persist on mountains too?

I have a mountain cabin, and I have had white crystals persist in the yard for months when it is cold.

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Who told you contrails can not persist? Chemtrail websites?

Do you get alarmed when you see natural cirrus clouds, or if you see white crystals that persist on mountains too?

I have a mountain cabin, and I have had white crystals persist in the yard for months when it is cold.

Just think, if persistent contrails don't exist, then million of dollars a year are wasted in studying their contribution to global warming. I guess they'd be better off spending the money on studying the effect of leprechauns on the spread of AIDS

Lived within 5 miles of a major airport for several years and as many of you have learned from your own experience - jets do not normally produce "chemtrails".

Having watched MANY videos on the subject here is my conclusion :

Chemtrails are a worldwide project which releases reflective material into the upper atmosphere in order to reflect some sunlight BACK into space to help fight global warming.

Someone should take note of when (season) chemtrails appear.

Ask google video about the subject, lots of good stuff.

ps. I still live within 15 miles of a major airport and drive by it all the time - no chemtrails noted !

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo

Someone should take note of when (season) chemtrails appear.

Persistent contrails are more common in the winter, though they can appear at any time.

ps. I still live within 15 miles of a major airport and drive by it all the time - no chemtrails noted !

Well, aircraft flying in and out of the airport are going to at lower levels , so much less likely to produce persistent contrails which generally form above 20,000ft

And if they contain substances aimed at reflecting sunlight away from earth, how come they are causing a net warming?

www.worldclimatereport.com...

(Note the Minnis paper - I can pass on a link to the paper itself if anyone is interested - deals with the effects of persistent contrails - what some call chemtrails - not the more common, short-lived, contrails which obviously don't have time to have an effect on temperature)

Originally posted by Essan
And if they contain substances aimed at reflecting sunlight away from earth, how come they are causing a net warming?

The purpose is to SLOW the increase in temp.

So if the mission is a 100% success you're still going to see an increase in temps - just not as much.

The idea is to create a fake sun shield for the earth - not to stop temp increase all together.

Also - I'm only claiming that this is what they're TRYING to do - not that it worked.

Originally posted by PisTonZOR

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Because Contrails have always been occassionally persistant since the dawn of high flying planes.

I will fully explain it as soon as I get the time.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PisTonZOR]

I and many other people have watched the sky and jets their entire lives and have never seen anything like this.

Explain that.

The normal trails jets leave don't last nearly as long as chemtrails do - science backs this up regardless of what you might believe.

So if you'd care to share some science with us as to how frozen water vapor manages to hang out for hours on end , be my guest.

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo
Lived within 5 miles of a major airport for several years and as many of you have learned from your own experience - jets do not normally produce "chemtrails".

Having watched MANY videos on the subject here is my conclusion :

Chemtrails are a worldwide project which releases reflective material into the upper atmosphere in order to reflect some sunlight BACK into space to help fight global warming.

Someone should take note of when (season) chemtrails appear.

Ask google video about the subject, lots of good stuff.

ps. I still live within 15 miles of a major airport and drive by it all the time - no chemtrails noted !

You said it yourself noobie, you live within 5 miles of an airport.. at that distance they are only going to be a thousand feet or so off the ground, they have to be considerably higher to produce CONTRAILS.

All these chemtrail sites take the info they can use for a good ol' conspiracy theory and then throw the scientific reasons in the bin!

I have learnt enough in the last 24hrs about contrails to be able to comfortably able to sit here and know they are nothing more than a 'natural' phenomena from a man made source.

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo

Originally posted by PisTonZOR

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Because Contrails have always been occassionally persistant since the dawn of high flying planes.

I will fully explain it as soon as I get the time.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PisTonZOR]

I and many other people have watched the sky and jets their entire lives and have never seen anything like this.

Explain that.

The normal trails jets leave don't last nearly as long as chemtrails do - science backs this up regardless of what you might believe.

So if you'd care to share some science with us as to how frozen water vapor manages to hang out for hours on end , be my guest.

Fine example of circular logic. Because in your opinion chemtrails last longer, that means chemtrails exist?

There is no "normal" when it comes to the atmosphere, but averages. Do you get alarmed every time the high and low temperatures stray from the average or when it rains more than "normal"?

There is no such thing as frozen water vapor. vapors are a gas, something frozen is a solid.

Its your assumption that goes against conventional thinking, so tell us how long ice crystals should last in very cold and rarified air, if the condensed water freezes before evaporating?

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo

Originally posted by PisTonZOR

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
Wow, I see how you all mock the Chemitrails. They are very real. How do you explain the fact of the Chemtrails being persistent, and not dissapating like Contrails do? There is a great resource over here at Chemtrail Data Page

Because Contrails have always been occassionally persistant since the dawn of high flying planes.

I will fully explain it as soon as I get the time.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PisTonZOR]

I and many other people have watched the sky and jets their entire lives and have never seen anything like this.

Explain that.

The normal trails jets leave don't last nearly as long as chemtrails do - science backs this up regardless of what you might believe.

So if you'd care to share some science with us as to how frozen water vapor manages to hang out for hours on end , be my guest.

Fine example of circular logic. Because in your opinion chemtrails last longer, that means chemtrails exist?

There is no "normal" when it comes to the atmosphere, but averages. Do you get alarmed every time the high and low temperatures stray from the average or when it rains more than "normal"?

There is no such thing as frozen water vapor. vapors are a gas, something frozen is a solid.

Its your assumption that goes against conventional thinking, so tell us how long ice crystals should last in very cold and rarified air, if the condensed water freezes before evaporating?

Don't be rude to me and I wont be rude to you.

I did not draw a conclusion from my experience, rather I asked a question based on my experience and that of countless others.

Therefor your attempts to label my thinking as "circular" do not hold up because no conclusion was ever drawn. And as all good boys and girls know - accusing someone of circular logic requires that they've drawn some sort of conclusion.

No such thing as frozen water vapor ? Really ? Like , really really ?

Bother asking google first ? Of course you didn't.

Try this in a google search "frozen water vapor" site:.edu

You'll be happy to find that google is aware of at least 52 pages from COLLEGES that use the EXACT term "frozen water vapor". Wow, they must have got that term wrong also.

Bother asking wikipedia ? Of course you didn't.

From the *very first paragraph* of the wikipedia article on contrails.

" Contrails or vapour trails are condensation trails and artificial cirrus clouds made by the exhaust of aircraft engines or wingtip vortices which precipitate a stream of tiny ice crystals in moist, frigid upper air. Contrary to appearances, they are not air pollution as such, though might be considered visual pollution. "

Oh my god. Tiny ice crystals. Wow I bet a bunch of tiny ice crystals floating around in the air could almost be described as "frozen water vapor" since solids to the laymen = fall due to gravity and contrails / chemtrails don't appear to "fall" rather they dissipate like a GAS.

Oh my god look here, there is a slurry of .gov sites which also use the term "frozen water vapor". GASP ! They even use it to describe SNOW of all things (NASA, Educational sites)

Oh dear lord, here is the clincher : the EPA themselves has called contrails "frozen water vapor".

" Jet aircraft engines operating at high altitudes emit tiny particles that serve as
condensation nuclei. High-altitude water vapor collects on these particles, crystallizes, and forms streaks of frozen water vapor otherwise known as contrails. "

- The EPA , Emission Standards and Test Procedures for Aircraft and Aircraft Engines, 2005

I feel like SUCH a fool

[edit on 16-3-2007 by NoobieDoobieDo]

[edit on 16-3-2007 by NoobieDoobieDo]

Once the vapor condenses and freezes, it is no longer a vapor. It is crystalline at that point. Look up the definition of a vapor.

If you dont think airborne ice crystals can persist, then do you believe cirrus is just a hoax too? What about snow?

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo

The normal trails jets leave don't last nearly as long as chemtrails do - science backs this up regardless of what you might believe

Er, I think you'll find science backs the existence of persistent contrails And persistent contrails are what you are seeing. Whether chemtrails exist is another matter - but if so, no-one has ever seen them (and why should they?)

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo
Lived within 5 miles of a major airport for several years and as many of you have learned from your own experience - jets do not normally produce "chemtrails".

Having watched MANY videos on the subject here is my conclusion :

Chemtrails are a worldwide project which releases reflective material into the upper atmosphere in order to reflect some sunlight BACK into space to help fight global warming.

I'll freely admit to beind somewhat skeptical about chem-trails, and this touches on another reason why (see my post above for some of the practical objections). If the purpose of this massive project (and to create alll the things that are passed off as 'chem trails', it would have to be a massive project) is to prevent or slow global warming, then it's way too low. By the time external (presumably solar) energy has penetrated town to the 40,000 foot level, it's already done most of the damage that it's going to do, in terms of warming the atmosphere. Shielding the bottom eight miles or so is far too little, and far too late. The trails are also oddly scattered...if we're trying to change the atmosphere of the whole planet, then the trails should be more or less evenly distributed over the entire surface of the Earth...instead, they seem to form a patchy quilt over parts of the US. Seems to be very inadequate coverage to me.

Not to mention either, that atmospheric aerosols have been steadily decreasing, not increasing

Originally posted by firepilot
Not to mention either, that atmospheric aerosols have been steadily decreasing, not increasing

i am sorry but that statement is plain WRONG, global totals for atmospheric aerosols have actually increased.

at the moment we are spending millions of dollars on researching this very thing .

please see this site for details:

www.phys.unsw.edu.au...

and this is the Main group researching this issue:

www.asp.bnl.gov...


snoopyuk

Actually no I am not wrong. Your link does not even assert increasing aerosols.

Recent NASA study shows has been steadily decreasing.

www.nasa.gov...

Whatever they are, I took a few shots of some this morning......the pattern of this lot was what caught my eye.



The larger ones run almost due west, smaller ones fairly north/south. We are 60 miles NNW of Atlanta, and contantly have overhead traffic, tho not always such 'artistic' trails.

Originally posted by firepilot
Once the vapor condenses and freezes, it is no longer a vapor. It is crystalline at that point. Look up the definition of a vapor.

If you dont think airborne ice crystals can persist, then do you believe cirrus is just a hoax too? What about snow?

Google .

"frozen water vapor" site:.gov

"frozen water vapor" site:.edu

snow "frozen water vapor" site:.edu

You still are not understanding. Once it is an ice or liquid, it is NO LONGER a vapor.

A vapor is gas. Are you saying that snowflakes are a gas? Or that mist, fog or clouds are water in gas form?

Look outside at a clear sky. You are seeing water in vapor form. Vapor gets misused often, but it does not change the fact that a vapor means water is a gaseous state, not liquid or ice.

Ice is liquid water that froze, but that does not mean it is still liquid.

Contrails are not water in vapor form.