unholy christmas

the date's wrong.
the message is wrong.
the traditions are pagan.
it is a time of greed.
a time of jealousy.
the 'spirit of christmas' has been ripped to shreds by commercialism.
people who no longer believe in christ, do believe that to 'deprive' a child of christmas is some kind of a crime. people of other religions indulge in the rituals of christmas.
the original date was set to match saturnalia. saturn is father time or kronos. santa is satan. also known as saturn, father time, kronos. lord of the material world.
the tree and the yule log are pagan traditions related to 'the green man', the fertility god of paganism(i think, if i remember correctly).
much the same as easter overlaps oster.
the vatican is about as unchristian as you can get. they are in direct contradiction to the teachings of christ. the pope is NOT infallible. he is NOT the earthly representative of the lord. not by any stretch.
it makes me sick, watching the world fall prey to such manipulation.
mass mind control, nothing less.

p.s. i believe in a true christ. i think he would agree with me. whah-who dor-ay, wah-who dor-ay.

Yeah, I think Christmas is real commercialized.. But really, I don't care.. It's a fun time for me and most everyone unless they decide to find something wrong and complain. The date is supposedly wrong, the message, eh, nobody really cares.. but it's a good time because you get to hang around family, and it's pretty much a day for kids, they get presents, get out of school.. why spoil the fun for the kids, you know..?

Mind control??? You mean as far as manipulating people to spend money in mass and on things they normally wouldnt?

In any case, perception is reality. I dont think many people perceive the idea of santa clause as satan incarnate. With the exception of you and a few others. I do see your point. To an extent.

The fact is that people enjoy doing it. So let them buy their loved ones gifts. If you look too deep into issues such as these to find the corruption of morals, you will find them, but you might find them when they are really not there.

I'm scared.

I'm scared that you can't understand what "commemoration" means. I'm scared that you are so full of hate and discrimination that you can't consider on your own that it doesn't matter what flipping day of the year is chosen for the believers of the Christian faith to celebrate their Saviour's birth that you would post crap like this.

And I'm scared by the fact that you can't just choose to not believe and leave the rest of us alone.

but that's just it. it's taboo to even suggest there is anything wrong with it. people are seriously deeply programmed regarding christmas.

the retailers get the biggest gifts. kid's though, that i see these days, don't really enjoy it. they don't think santa's been checking to see who's been naughty or nice. they just EXPECT to get what they desire materialistically. and they get it, usually. if a sibling gets a better present, then they feel dejected. the sheen on the holiday of christmas is nothing like the dysfunctional reality.

i like having holidays, but i think the reason is important. i think the reason should be because people need time for themselves and their families. mandatory gift giving(that's what it is now) is not meaningful. it only sets up expectations which are satisfied or not. the holiday is a farce.
we live in a society where people who can afford to buy gifts for each other don't really need them. true christians should be out giving food and shelter to the homeless on christmas if they want to celebrate christ. people will spend tons on a 'joke gift' , though, or on christmas decorations like a dancing, singing animatronic santa. now they only think about what they are going to 'get'.

they should call it greed and gorge day now. if people knew more about how the human race has been programmed, i don't think they would take it so lightly.

Originally posted by billybob
the date's wrong.
the message is wrong.
the traditions are pagan.
it is a time of greed.
a time of jealousy.
the 'spirit of christmas' has been ripped to shreds by commercialism.
people who no longer believe in christ, do believe that to 'deprive' a child of christmas is some kind of a crime. people of other religions indulge in the rituals of christmas.
the original date was set to match saturnalia. saturn is father time or kronos. santa is satan. also known as saturn, father time, kronos. lord of the material world.
the tree and the yule log are pagan traditions related to 'the green man', the fertility god of paganism(i think, if i remember correctly).
much the same as easter overlaps oster.
the vatican is about as unchristian as you can get. they are in direct contradiction to the teachings of christ. the pope is NOT infallible. he is NOT the earthly representative of the lord. not by any stretch.
it makes me sick, watching the world fall prey to such manipulation.
mass mind control, nothing less.

p.s. i believe in a true christ. i think he would agree with me. whah-who dor-ay, wah-who dor-ay.

The question is, so #ing what?

The commercial issues around Christmas are modern...that's a bull# excuse to persecute people for holding a day as commemoration of the gift their religion holds in highest esteem.

Who the hell cares how many of you buy into the commercialization...Santa doesn't have a damned thing to do with what I believe.

I like Christmas because it's a good excuse to spend time with people you rarely see around a hot fire whilst eating, drinking and telling stories whilst giving each other gifts to show you care about them.
It should be made a mandatory weekly thing.

Originally posted by �any
The question is, so #ing what?

the answer is mass programming and mind control.

Originally posted by Valhall
The commercial issues around Christmas are modern...that's a bull# excuse to persecute people for holding a day as commemoration of the gift their religion holds in highest esteem.

Who the hell cares how many of you buy into the commercialization...Santa doesn't have a damned thing to do with what I believe.

ahhh, but i'm not persecuting people. i'm persecuting tradition.
these traditions are actually contrary to christianity(at least for the majority, only concerned with turkeys, gifts and trees). the behaviour of people is dispicable during the prelude to christmas. they clamber over each other. they push and shove. the collective stress level goes out the roof. everyone has a me first attitude. it's antichrist i tells ya!

i agree with dany. i would go further than once a week and make it every day. the freinds and family is great. the imported pagan traditions suck. so hypocritical.



[Edited on 21-12-2003 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
the imported pagan traditions suck. so hypocritical.

Is there anything wrong with the pagan traditions as they were initially intended?

Peace,
BG

[Edited on 21-12-2003 by beergoggles]

Originally posted by beergoggles
Is there anything wrong with the pagan traditions as they were initially intended?

Peace,
BG

[Edited on 21-12-2003 by beergoggles]

no. not to me. what i find disturbing is what this 'festive season' has grown into. pagan is not christian.
pushing and rude behaviour, so common around this time are not christian. the true nature of this holiday is ugly and is neither christian nor pagan. it is just hypocracy. it is so pervasive that it is practically treason to speak out against it. xmas is a religion unto itself(and MANDATORY at that!). even the satanists are mad at me for speaking my mind.

peace to you, BG

[Edited on 21-12-2003 by billybob]

Christmas~

Until the 4th century this Feast was kept on January 6, when the Church also remembered the Baptism of Our Lord in the River Jordan.
It was called the Theophony and was dedicated especially to the manifestation of God in the flesh. ("Theophany" means the "showing forth of God.")

The early Church knew that there was a mystical relationship between the first and the Second Adam, between the one that brought death into the world and the One Who brought life and salvation.

According to very ancient tradition, Christ, the "Second Adam," was born on the same day on which Adam, the first-created one, was born--that is, on the "Sixth Day," which corresponded to the sixth day of the first month (January 6th on the Julian Calendar).

"Today Christ is born in Bethlehem of the Virgin.

Today He who is without a beginning begins,

And the Word is made flesh.

The powers of Heaven rejoice,

The earth and her people are jubilant;

The Wise Men bring gifts to the Lord,

The shepherds marvel at the One who is born;

And we sing without ceasing:
"Glory to God in the Highest, And on earth peace,

(God's) good will toward men". (17)
There is one solitary note, however, which breaks into these hymns of general rejoicing like a forewarning of future lamentations.
The Wise Men -- according to the Christmas Eve stichera -- came toworship the Incarnate God and devotedly offered Him their gifts
-- gold, because He is the King of ages;
frankincense, because He is the God of all men;
but then they also brought Him myrrh,
with which the Jews were accustomed to anoint their dead,
because He was to "lie three days in death."

What shall I say and what proclaim?

"Behold, a Virgin in womb shalt conceive and She shalt give birth a Son, and they will call Him the name Emmanuel, in interpretation: God is with us [S nami Bog / Meth' hemon ho Theos / Nobiscum Deus]" (Mt 1:23).


~Discourse On the Nativity of Christ ~
www.3saints.com...

The real ....Santa Clause!
Saint Nicholas....

Who was Saint Nicholas?
Nicholas was the bishop of the Christian Church in the Asia Minor city of Myra (now Demre, Turkey) in the fourth century AD.
He is beloved throughout the Christian East for his kindness and help, both during his life and afterward. He is called "Wonderworker" (or "Miraculous" or "Miracle-Worker", different translations of the Greek "thavmatourgos") for the miracles which he performed and which he still performs, by God's grace. Many accounts of Saint Nicholas are available, both elsewhere on the World-Wide Web and at this site .
In the Protestant West, which suppressed the invocation of saints, Saint Nicholas became popularly known as Santa Claus .

In accordance with early Christian tradition, saints are remembered in the Orthodox Church on the date of their passing from this life into the next.

Saint Nicholas is thus remembered on December 6. Orthodox Christianity maintains that even though people are dead according to this life, that they are alive in the spiritual realm, and continue to pray for us. Our "prayers to the saints" are actually requests that they pray for us, much as we ask believers who are still alive in the flesh to pray for us.

The remains of St. Nicholas now repose principally in Bari, Italy, having been transported there in 1087 A.D. after Myra fell to Islamic invaders.
A fragrant liquid (myrrh) still exudes from the relics. Miracles are performed even today through the intercessions of St. Nicholas.
Turkey also claims to possess bones of Saint Nicholas.

A word on Saints and their honour.......

"The Saints have become according to grace that which the Lord Christ is according to nature.
That is, they have become gods according to grace: pure and living habitations of God.

For God says: 'I will dwell in them, walk in them, and I will be their God' (II Corinthians 6:16; Leviticus 16:12).

The Holy Scriptures likewise say: 'the souls of the righteous are in God's hand, and death cannot lay hold of them' (Wisdom of Solomon 3:1).

For death is rather the sleep of Saints than their death. Further: 'Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His Saints' (Psalm 119:6).

What, then, is more precious than to be in the hand of God?
For God is life and light, and those who are in God's hand are in life and light.
Further, that God dwells even in their bodies in a spiritual manner the all-divine Apostle attests:

'Know ye not that your bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you?' (I Corinthians 3:16).

And, 'the Lord is Spirit' (II Corinthians 3:17).
Thus, the evangelical truth: 'If anyone destroy the temple of God, him will God destroy�for the temple of God is holy, and ye are that temple' (I Corinthians 3:17).

www.stjohndc.org...

Ok, Today Christmas seems so commercialized that the true meaning of Christ has been lost among who gives what or who gets what for Christ- mas

helen....

There are three festivals of YHWH who is Salvation or Jezjuah ('YesHuWaH means Salvation in Hebrew) discribed in the Law of Moses. None of these is in winter time. Hanukkah is a later addition in Post Babylonian tradition which Jezjuah fought all his life. The three festivals of Jezjuah are Passover, Mid-Summer and Harvest. Hanukkah isn't good, it is "Jewish Christmas" and has nothing to do with God or Jezjuah for that matter. It's a pagan holliday inspired by Roman mythology and astrology. It's a festival of Satan or the Beast in other words. Jezjuah was born around Passover. Christmas/Hanukkah is when the two divine witnesses are killed. People celebrate their deaths by feasting and giving eachother presents. Take my advise: If you love God, then don't celebrate Christmas which is the death of the two witnesses, celebrate instead Passover as the Birth of Jezjuah (not his death, that is Satanic).

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by billybob
the date's wrong.
the message is wrong.
the traditions are pagan.
it is a time of greed.
a time of jealousy.
the 'spirit of christmas' has been ripped to shreds by commercialism.
people who no longer believe in christ, do believe that to 'deprive' a child of christmas is some kind of a crime. people of other religions indulge in the rituals of christmas.
the original date was set to match saturnalia. saturn is father time or kronos. santa is satan. also known as saturn, father time, kronos. lord of the material world.
the tree and the yule log are pagan traditions related to 'the green man', the fertility god of paganism(i think, if i remember correctly).
much the same as easter overlaps oster.
the vatican is about as unchristian as you can get. they are in direct contradiction to the teachings of christ. the pope is NOT infallible. he is NOT the earthly representative of the lord. not by any stretch.
it makes me sick, watching the world fall prey to such manipulation.
mass mind control, nothing less.

p.s. i believe in a true christ. i think he would agree with me. whah-who dor-ay, wah-who dor-ay.

I agree in general but xmas is time to get really really really drunk!
You're rite about it being a time of greed and jealousy
its all a scam a con and a hoax.

Keep in mind though that the Holidays/Christmas is the only period of the year when many stores actually make a profit.

Originally posted by Helioform
Keep in mind though that the Holidays/Christmas is the only period of the year when many stores actually make a profit.

Yeah from poor suckers who like to spend hard earned cash and blow it all in a day!~

I got no Problem with Christman, unless I dont get any gifts.
Seapeople,
Everytime I read your posts, I hear carthman saying them in his voice.
Deep

billybob

You are on a roll. Look at what you bring out.

There is a separate and distinct programming going on through Christian churches as opposed to mass merchandising retail culture. Sometimes I imagine that many people feel a conflict between them over what we ought to be thinking at Christmas.

Hasn't Christmas become an enforced family time, when you strip back all the religious and commercial trimmings?

The quality of the experience in many ways is governed by the quality of the family dynamic. Joy and happiness can exist in families reunited by this tradition every year. Especially in seeing the growing of children. Or, where family members treat each other like sh*t all year, then it may end up being a day of prolonged guilt or the seeking of absolution. What's your family like?

Christmas can be a difficult period too, for those alone or ostracized from family for whatever reason.

The spirit of Christmas may have most to do with how you perceive someone you don't like, or don't even know, on the day. And after.

Good post, billybob!

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by Valhall
The commercial issues around Christmas are modern...that's a bull# excuse to persecute people for holding a day as commemoration of the gift their religion holds in highest esteem.

Who the hell cares how many of you buy into the commercialization...Santa doesn't have a damned thing to do with what I believe.

ahhh, but i'm not persecuting people. i'm persecuting tradition.
these traditions are actually contrary to christianity(at least for the majority, only concerned with turkeys, gifts and trees). the behaviour of people is dispicable during the prelude to christmas. they clamber over each other. they push and shove. the collective stress level goes out the roof. everyone has a me first attitude. it's antichrist i tells ya!

i agree with dany. i would go further than once a week and make it every day. the freinds and family is great. the imported pagan traditions suck. so hypocritical.



[Edited on 21-12-2003 by billybob]

The imported Pagan traditions are more #ing important than the #ing Christian ones, I found that comment highly #ing insulting.