U.S. court upholds same-sex teaching to children

Originally posted by Griff
How sad. I disagree with you but I still respect you. But, I guess being a christian, you can disrespect all you want.

Just like you disrespect every single Christian parent by forcing their children to learn beliefs the parents don't accept. Real good.

Respect is a double edged sword, and it goes both ways. If you want us to respect you right or wrong, then respect our beliefs right or wrong also.

I'll admit there are extremists on both sides that push their views down everyone elses throats. For the most part homosexuals do a heck of alot more pushing and shoving with their agenda.

If they want to push their agenda on our children in public schools, then public schools need to allow Christian religion back into the classroom. It should have never been taken out in the first place.

[edit on 6-3-2007 by Mystery_Lady]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
If all the objectors can think of when they hear of a homosexual relationship is hot man love,
[edit on 6-3-2007 by Rasobasi420]

The homosexuals did that themselves when they divided the homosexuals into two groups: gays and lesbians. Gay=men and lesbians=women

Yes gay would = "hot man love" Where else are they going to do the wild thing except up the but? That is nasty especially with all the feces, germs, and who knows what else.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
in MY opinion...homosexuality is a perverted and deviant lifestyle choice. I do not hate anyone for being homosexual, I do not wish to prevent them from being who they choose to be, but I will not tolerate anyone, government or otherwise, telling me

For having no reiligious orentation, you grasped what are some of the hardest Christian concepts that many Christians haven't grasped themselves. Those that have, yes myself included, have a hard time putting into practice. I'm getting better at it, but sometimes I'm still too judgemental.

Edited to add: In Christian terms, homosexuality is perveted = sin

I do not hate anyone for being a homosexual = loving thy neighbour and enemy

I do not wish to prevent them from being who they choose to be = do not judge

will not tolerate anyone = loving the sinner, but yet not letting their sin have any influence in your life, and thus possibly turning you towards the sin you hate.

If only some of these so called Christians had half the understanding you did. Yet I call myself a Christian when I wore my emotions on my sleeve and attacked others. I'll include my self in the so called Christians.... eventhough I may understand, the practice is even harder.

Yet you in those few lines not only understood it, but practiced it as well with seeming ease. Now I ask myself who is the real Christian?

[edit on 6-3-2007 by Mystery_Lady]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but I've read enough to get the general direction of the thought processes.

Before I enter into the homosexual issue there is an overall issue here that needs to be addressed. The government has no right to over ride personal choices of parents in the raising and development of their children. This is not an open area of education for our public schools. This is the responsibility of the parents to teach their children about moral issues that are sensitive to that families beliefs.

Don't try to argue the point with me that its simple biological functions. There are moral issues attached to sexuality in every aspect and it is not the place of our society to over ride the family and individual rights.
Now this leads us directly to the precise question at hand. Should public schools 'teach' homosexuality in our public schools to our children. And of course the answer is no. No more than they should teach our children about S & M, or swinging or any other sexual preference.

My personal belief is that teaching children about sex at the age of nine or ten equates to sexual molestation, especially when you are teaching them about personal preferences that are to say the least controversial. And to many people are actually perverse. It should not be up to our school system when the appropriate time is to take our children’s innocence from them. This is one reason that teen sex is so rampant in US culture today. Children should not know enough about sex before they reach high school to even know whether or not they are homosexual and honestly that is not a decision they should be formulating during their high school years either. And the public school system is most definitely not the proper platform to be used to formulate (cultivate) such life altering decisions.

This is directly related to personal beliefs, like religion, which we are constantly told is not allowed in our public school systems. I would venture to say that almost all of the people arguing to defend this decision to allow homosexuality to be taught in our schools would also argue to defend the removal of any form of religious belief from our public schools.

What you attribute to being Christian principles and characteristics I attribute to basic common sense and being a reasonable and rational human being. I have never felt that I have the right to tell anyone how to live nor do I have any desire to do so, but at the same time I am entitled to my own views and I am certainly entitled to raise my own children how I see fit to do so without the permission of government officials and homosexual lobbyists alike. I will not be forced to submit to ideals, principles or beliefs that I do not find agreeable or reasonable. Attribute that to being a hard headed American I suppose If it also happens to be Christian then so be it.



FYI I have never had a problem with Christianity and it's teachings per se, I do however take great exception to the zealots who promote it and twist it in order to reap a profit or to enforce their own hidden personal agendas. In short I agree with the ideals and principles to a large degree, I just detest the people that God has working for him here on Earth (Robertson, Swaggart, Baker etc etc etc)

Originally posted by Cajia
If teaching "sex ed" in elementary school is based solely around heterosexual activities, children who do grow up 'to be' or 'as' homosexual (not because of the teachings of their parents, school, or peers; but simply because they have chosen that path for themselves) will not have sufficient education to protect themselves against STD's, physical complications that can be caused by sex such as (in the boys cases) hemorrhoids and anal tearing, or (in the both cases) proper care of adult toys to prevent infection or bacterial growth. Honestly I think that such education should start early but with out specific detail given until they reach high school. However, this doesn't have anything to do with merely mentioning homosexuality in a school environment. As it goes, Homosexuality is a fact of life that has been around as others have said "just as long as heterosexuality" It was actually more accepted long long in the past and it wasn't until Christianity, Catholicism, and other moral based religions showed up that homosexual activity was persecuted as being unnatural or deviant(let me remind you that sexuality in all forms has been around long before any of those religions started), and still there were those that would have it no other way. I think ignorance is passed from parent to child just as any other trait could possibly be. If we are to be happy in this world with each other, we have to be more accepting of each other.

I am not homosexual, in fact I am a wife and mother, and woman, who likes men very much, so I'm not necessarily rooting for homosexuality. I have a son who I would like to see make decisions for himself; and believe very firmly that self discovery can only be attained when you yourself are searching for it, not with the harsh direction of your parents. Weather he becomes heterosexual or homosexual is his choice ultimately. He could be bisexual for all I care and I wouldn't love him any less. I don't understand how any parent could see it any other way.

If you feel that teaching elementary aged children about the hazards of homosexually inflicted anal tearage and hemorrhoids is a good idea in ANY way then I think it is time for you to seek help from a psychiatric professional because you obviously have a severe mental disorder. Not to seem overly harsh here, but come on, what kind of mother are you?

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
Just like you disrespect every single Christian parent by forcing their children to learn beliefs the parents don't accept. Real good.

Actually, I agree with the point that the govenment has no right to legislate over a parent.

Respect is a double edged sword, and it goes both ways. If you want us to respect you right or wrong, then respect our beliefs right or wrong also.

I do respect peoples beliefs. Until those beliefs infringe on someone else that is. And that goes both ways.

I'll admit there are extremists on both sides that push their views down everyone elses throats. For the most part homosexuals do a heck of alot more pushing and shoving with their agenda.

It may seem that way to you because your straight and christian. To me, it's the other way around. Point of view type of thing.

If they want to push their agenda on our children in public schools, then public schools need to allow Christian religion back into the classroom. It should have never been taken out in the first place.

I wouldn't go as far as bringing the whole christian religion into the classroom, but introduce it. Just like everything else. That goes for Islam, Judiasm, hinduism, paganism etc. But to learn everything, the kids would be at school 24/7. They have to choose what to teach. I feel it's ok to introduce kids to a story about a prince marrying a prince. But that's my opinion and if a perent has another opinion, the school should honor the parents. Kids have to get permission slips for field trips. Why couldn't the school just administer permission slips to be taught this sort of thing? When I was in school, they gave out permission slips to see if the parents allowed pattling.

Bottom line. I do agree with you guys about letting the parent decide. I just think personally that denying your children life and all it's diverseness is a shame.

Griff
Why couldn't the school just administer permission slips to be taught this sort of thing?

Not to pick on Griff in particular, but this won't really work. Just because your kid misses school the day they have mano y mano book day does not mean that their not going to hear all about it the next day from their class mates. When they were havng sex education in my daughters 4th grade class we didn't take her out for the day, we took her out for a week. Just hoping that the lunch room banter would die down before she came back the following week. And I told them exactly why I was taking her out for the week and I called the county school board and told them too. we are currently homeschooling our children, although not totaly for these reasons.

So, you feel it's better to shield your child from reality? OK, that's your perogative. But, at some point they will have to face the real world. It reminds me of an episode of that reality show where they switch mothers for a week. Yeah, I know, I was bored one night. Anyway, the one family was home schooled and the kids were just wierd. They didn't wear shoes and the parents were dead set on them leaving even for college. Anyway, is that what you really want to do? Shield your children from the real world? Go ahead. But when they beat me up some day and are spending thier life in jail, don't blame me.

Originally posted by Griff
So, you feel it's better to shield your child from reality? OK, that's your perogative. But, at some point they will have to face the real world. It reminds me of an episode of that reality show where they switch mothers for a week. Yeah, I know, I was bored one night. Anyway, the one family was home schooled and the kids were just wierd. They didn't wear shoes and the parents were dead set on them leaving even for college. Anyway, is that what you really want to do? Shield your children from the real world? Go ahead. But when they beat me up some day and are spending thier life in jail, don't blame me.

Well my children are homeschooled. They don't go barefoot or wear overalls. They do however dress decent. They will goto college any college they choose. I don't shild my children from reality but I also don't throw it down their throats. I'm enjoying them being kids because thats what they are. They are only kids for a short 16 years of life after that their pretty much knowledge to everything out there. But I don't under any circumstances what some stranger who doesn't know my kid and sees them under 190 days to teach them their religion, or sexual ways in life. That is up to me period no ands, ifs, or buts about it. This is more than a gay issue it's about what is moraly right and wrong.

Wait wait wait. Can no one with "good moral values" see why this is good?

You see, when a child grows up to be an ignorant biggoted homophobe this can have two seperate yet equally devastating consequences.

First of all, a biggot is more likely to get involved in violent crime he wouldn't normally have gotten involved in. Little biggot children become big biggot adults, and adults can consume alcohol. Now, if you don't like someone and you consume alcohol usually that's when shinanigans ensue. Now imagine not liking a whole population of someones. Now imagine not being able to tell who those someones are by their appearance. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Okay, I went a little too far, so lemme take a step or two back. Little biggot children can have detrimental effects on the children around them. Is it "good Christian values" to psychologically and emotionally scar other children. Is that what Jesus would do. Even super tolerant, tree hugging, hippy, liberal kids named River are brutal to other children, so just imagine what happens when you toss a little base-level hatred into that mix.

Okay, forget about that because all of your children emulate Jesus and would never act like children. So let's go to reason number two.

What if, and bear with me here, but WHAT IF...

you child turns out gay? Now before you get all huffy just try to imagine that homosexuality might just be caused by some less-than-usual DNA combination. That would be mean your child could be gay. Now imagine that your child believes that his normal homosexual feelings are inately wrong. I think that child would develop some serious issues.

But your child couldn't be gay because he grew up in a good Christian family, right?

Griff

You're way too defensive and you were the one who asked the question, I merely answered it. The point of my post was that skipping class will not resolve the issue of having your children taught preferences you don't believe in. It's not about shielding your children, it's about instilling the values you believe into your descendants. You obviously have your beliefs and they apparently align toward gay rights. Would you want your children to be taught that homosexuality is a mental illness? And at the first sign of homosexual tendencies you should immediately see a psychiatrist.

That is the same thing as them telling my children this is a penis and this is a vagina and men and women use these to procreate. But even though the two only function properly as opposites to create a baby, you can combine a penis with a penis or a vagina with a vagina just for the pleasure of it, even though it's completely unnatural.

I will be signing off after this but let me just add that my children had straight A's in private school, public school and in home school. They are all headed for college and my son has Algebra 2, advanced grammar, world literature economics and Latin on top of several other classes and five book reports this year as a home school student in 10th grade. Probably wouldn't happen in a public school and I don't have to worry about our belief system being undermined by political public agendas.

Your problem is that you have to fight mainly to justify your own choices in your mind. Your arguing to convince yourself that you are OK with the bad choices you've made in your own life. I personally don't want my children to have to go through that, myself.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
FYI I have never had a problem with Christianity and it's teachings per se, I do however take great exception to the zealots who promote it and twist it in order to reap a profit or to enforce their own hidden personal agendas. In short I agree with the ideals and principles to a large degree, I just detest the people that God has working for him here on Earth (Robertson, Swaggart, Baker etc etc etc)

Just remember one thing, they only claim to be doing God's work. Whether they actually are or not, only God can say. Jesus called the religious leaders of his time snakes and vipers, and promoted those who wouldn't have a chance in 10 lifetimes to become a religious leader to be his disciples. I even find it hard to find a decent church let alone a good one that teaches the truths of the Bible.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
I think it's more a matter of showing children that it's normal and trying to stop some of the ongoing stereotypes. Maybe from your point of view it is an attack ... but that would be your duty as a parent to instill your Christian beliefs to your child and explain to them why you think that it was wrong.

As far as "satinist and new age practices" ... Satanism is a religion and as such should be afforded the same protections as any other religion.

Sorry, but homosexual lifestyle is not normal. It is also a sin just like adultry and sex before marriage is a sin.

From your point of view it is not normal and a sin. From my point of view it's nothing to be concerned about. As far as sex before marriage, personally I think people should live together before getting married. There's no better way to find out if your compatible as a couple then to live under the same roof and share domestic chorse.

While I may not agree with your view of homosexuality I feel your entitled to your opinion and to raise your children with your belief system. Such is the diversity of this world.

Originally posted by carslake
Yeah man all good. Yep I get it I understand your point. Now would it be okay to show a 7 year old massive head trauma caused by a high calibre/powered firearm? With the intention of showing them the misfortune in war?

At 7 little did I know but all I wanted to do was ride my bike, play football, throw sticks in the pond and play fight with my friends. There kids for cryin out loud let them do kids things. Before I became a father I'd raise holy hell and act irresponsible, but when my first child was born I was immediately struck by the responsibilty that was given to me. My life was not my own anymore I want to control and protect my children against lifes misfortunes until they can protect themselves and make well informed decisions of their own.

I resent any Government taking away from me the right to introduce such a thing into their lifes your talking about sex it's not a throw away thing although it is to some people. Do you know what this feels like, to be a father, my life has been damn hard real hard and I may be accused of being too controlling, but I'll never allow other people to make decisions for them not when I know best.

The point is they're not talking about sex. The story is of a prince who turns down several princesses until he falls in love with a prince. They seal the deal with a kiss and the story ends. Sounds like every other typical fairy tale read to our children save for the fact it involves 2 men instead of a man and woman.

If this story is dealing with sex then so are stories such as the Frog Prince and any other kids story that talks about kissing and falling in love "happily ever after".

I think the bigger issue here, the real reason the parents sued, is that some parents feel uncomfortable having to address their children and answer certain questions that they may have. If little Johnny comes home and has a question regarding this story and why two boys were kissing the parents would rather have the book thrown out than deal with the ackward questions.

No matter where you stand on the issues it is the responsibility of a parent to honestly and simply address the questions directed at them by their children. They're looking to you for guidance and that is your opportunity to instill your beliefs and values into them.

Sunsetspawn lets talk about intolerance here. Exactly who is being intolerant of whom?

I did say homosexuality is a sin. But I also, commented to BlackOps719 that he is being more Christian than I am especially in regards to tolerance.

See what you and so many others do is come out and bash Christians and others that believe that homosexuality is wrong. You call us intolerant and bigoted, and are so sure our children are going to be in bigoted gangs beating up on everyone else with whom they don't agree with.

Yet you simply want to over look some of the best principles and practices the Bible teaches and what BlackOps719, not even a Christian, so elegantly put into words about of tolerance. You over look the fact that we can teach our kids about morals, values, right and wrong, and about sin and sinners, and yet still instill in them not to hate those who go against what we believe. That includes not beating them up, not to sneer at them or bad mouth that person in any way.

But what do you do? You come in slamming us into the wal, pounding on us, and smearing our faces into what you believe is absolute truth that our children will be intolerant bigots that will physically and emotionally hurt their peers.

Now I wonder if you are perpuating your hate of Christins on to your children and/or grandchildren? What is going to happen when you and others like you instill a deep hate of Christianity and make the a Christianophobe?

First of all, a biggot is more liekly to get involved in violent crime he wouldn't normally have gotten involved with. Little biggot children become big biggot adults, and adults can consuem alcohol..... Need I go on with this, or do you get the point?

You know what "tolerance" is over rated. Yep, we will never be tolerant of each others ideas. You will be against Christians and our values, and I will always be agains homosexual practice. But that doesn't mean we coudln't be civilized and courtious towards each other if we ever met. Oooops, problem. You distain "good Christian values", so I take it you would never practice them. There fore we would never could act civilized and courtious towards me or any other Christian. Neither could you be tolerant towards them, since tolerance is in essance a "good Christian value." I guess you would make me fight wouldn't you, just like a bully and bigot.

If any of mine were to come up to me and say they were gay, I would have to sit them down and have a serious talk with them. I would ask if they were pressured into the choice. It is a choice. I would talk about what the Bible says. I would remind them it is a sin in God's eyes. I would also remind them it is a sin to have sex outside of marriage. I would ask them where they are with God. Then I would do some serious praying. Later on I would probablly nail them with the no biologocial grandchildren guilt trip on them, and missing out on being a parent. In no way would I condon them adopting a child, since most homosexual relationships are short term lucky to last 6 months.

Mystery_Lady

Thankyou for putting words down that says it all. You took the words right out of my mouth.

First of all I'm not a guy I'm a 39 year old lady. So what its 2007. Big deal the year doesn't make something right or wrong. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong. So with your theory your saying its ok to murder too. I mean thats been going on since the dawn of time and hey since its 2007 its fine to murder now.

Well it's 2007 so you can stop your religious BS. The bible is a work of FICTION. Face it. No sex before marriage is complete non-sense, non-realistic by today's values.

I've got nothing against home-schooling, except if it's too teach BS about religion and indoctrinated people like you seems to be. Do you think school should teach the danger of AIDS, the use of condom or preach abstinence which is totally ridiculous?

Originally posted by Vitchilo

First of all I'm not a guy I'm a 39 year old lady. So what its 2007. Big deal the year doesn't make something right or wrong. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong. So with your theory your saying its ok to murder too. I mean thats been going on since the dawn of time and hey since its 2007 its fine to murder now.

Well it's 2007 so you can stop your religious BS. The bible is a work of FICTION. Face it. No sex before marriage is complete non-sense, non-realistic by today's values.

I've got nothing against home-schooling, except if it's too teach BS about religion and indoctrinated people like you seems to be. Do you think school should teach the danger of AIDS, the use of condom or preach abstinence which is totally ridiculous?

I was wonder where you went. You just disappeared and stopped talking.

Well you should face that there are people with moral values, not everyone jumps into bed with someone else just cause they are dating. I know I didn't. I had more than my share of dates. They were fun and exciting but thats what they were. Just dates, not lets see who can get their clothes off the fastest. I had several friends whom waited till marriage as well. I'm sure I won't be the last either. Again though this is not the subject at hand. Today's values has not changed. People has always and always will be the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Sex and of all types goes back to the beginning of time. Its just a matter of respect for one self of how you act upon it.

To me the Bible is real. Not fiction!

However, this is about weather its right or wrong to talk to our babies age 7, 8, and 9 years old about sex. I say no. We should not they are not ready. Let a child be a child. They grow up to fast as it is. I'm homeschooling because I travel alot and they go with me. Its not too cram something down their throat. My kids are very well rounded and good thinkers. They are not blind to the world and they know right from wrong. I think schools should teach book learning and let the parents teach about personal life.

Vitchilo
I've got nothing against home-schooling, except if it's too teach BS about religion and indoctrinated people like you seems to be.

First off, you should try to refrain from calling other peoples beliefs BS. If you want to talk about indoctrination, look at how our government has indoctrinated people like you into thinking that there is no God and the Bible is false and you can do anything you like and feel ‘OK’ with that because moral values are false, too. Everyone talks about how Christians don’t have any tolerance for other peoples beliefs, but it seems to me that Christianity and moral values in general are what is not being tolerated. Obviously homosexuality has gotten it’s tolerance since we’re going to start teaching every ones children how to be one. This kind of indoctrination in our public schools is generally why people homeschool their children, because the schools are overstepping their bounds with education.





[edit on 7-3-2007 by lonewolf37]