Real Talk about White Privilege

Originally posted by truthseeka

I have seen the above situtations happen to all people of all races, both genders, and of all socioeconomic statuses. There are a lot of officers that will go overboard on the searches, most of the time if you complain to the city council, or similar governing body they will recoup the damages.

I see you didn't read my sources (not that I'm surprised, though). If you did, you would have seen that measures taken to eliminate racial profiling FAILED; the practice still occurs. Not to mention that high ranking political officials are known to cover up this problem.

And of course, as long as police departments TEACH officers to do this, NO laws will fix this problem.

I have never seen any academy in Virginia teach us to racially profile. All I can suggest is that you get the badge number and name of the officers that broke the law and send them to the Department of Justice, it will take longer but you can bypass the local department if you need to.

Originally posted by ceci2006
No. I am not. Frankly, I don't see why discussing race-relations on this board equates to that.

Just seems like race is all that you have been discussing here for a while now, that's all.

However, March Madness has started. Bobby Knight is about to go down.

Update: Texas Tech has lost.

I seriously have no idea what the hell that is supposed to mean.

It is rather sad that younger generations, such as myself (27), are subject to the same hypocritical arguments that my parents had to deal with. I am what finacially would be just barely in the lower class, but I have several great black friends, some hispanic friends, and a couple asian friends. We all speak to each other as americans.

There is a hidden hypocrocy tied in with this white priveledge, and it goes back to the first few posts in this thread.....Example:

A woman was assaulted in New York a few days ago, 101 years old, she was punched in the face 3 times while a black male in his 30s rifled through her purse. When she tried to grab for it, he landed a fourth knockout punch. Not bad for an old lady, or maybe he was a wuss. I'm sure most of you guys who watch the news at all know of this already, however, here is the interesting part....

Have you heard a single word from Al Sharpton, or Jessie Jackson, or any other black leader in this country? NO. BUT, if the roles were reversed, there would be marches from New York to Detroit, black people calling for a boycott of everything, and a general crappy, scripted apology by all the scared white politicians in the white house. It was a very sick thing to do to someone of that age, or anyone of that matter, reguardless of the age, however, it's the same stigma with the roles reversed. Racial profiling I believe is very evident if you just look, and It won't change any time soon, unless we teach our children what they are doing now, and make the change.

The fact that you can get a job just because of your skin color rather than your qualifications is ridiculous. Just had to mention that.....

My 2 cents

King.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin


Just seems like race is all that you have been discussing here for a while now, that's all.

And how does that affect you in any way?

I seriously have no idea what the hell that is supposed to mean.

I was just agreeing with you that there are more important things to talk about. And yes, being a basketball fan, I agree that March Madness ranks up there with other issues to discuss.

But I like to talk about race because it is an aspect of society. And, it is such a shame that for a subject that I like to talk about, I get intimidated by others about it.

-------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, Truthseeka. I will not try to derail the thread again. I will stay on topic and on point with the subject matter.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
And how does that affect you in any way?

Well, since I am a reader of this site, the very same one that you claim to be bringing the issues of racial preference or privelege to, how can you suggest that it does not affect me in any way?

I was just agreeing with you that there are more important things to talk about. And yes, being a basketball fan, I agree that March Madness ranks up there with other issues to discuss.

Oh, sports, I mean, pan et circensis huh? Good luck with that.

But I like to talk about race because it is an aspect of society. And, it is such a shame that for a subject that I like to talk about, I get intimidated by others about it.

I have noticed a pattern, whenever someone directly questions you, or disagrees with you, then you automatically equate it to intimidation and harrassment. Interesting really.

I'm sorry, Truthseeka. I will not try to derail the thread again. I will stay on topic and on point with the subject matter.

Ditto, and since you never answered me truth, I will ask you again: What is the point of this thread exactly?

[edit on 15-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Come on now, King...that's a bit much.

I saw the crime on TV yesterday. To say that black people would be mad across the nation because of the acts of one criminal is ludicrous. It is ridiculous for you to make such an assumption, IMO.

If you pay attention, you will see that most black uproar about crimes against black people are committed by POLICE, not criminals.

I'd like to add that this was a disgusting crime that was committed. Where I'm from, you RESPECT the old school. But of course, you want to have this criminal represent black America in its entirety, or vice versa, I should say. White privilege strikes again.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Well, since I am a reader of this site, the very same one that you claim to be bringing the issues of racial preference or privelege to, how can you say that it does not affect me in any way?

It might. And I extend my apologizes if it has affected you adversely.

I have noticed a pattern, whenever someone directly questions you, or disagrees with you, then you automatically equate it to intimidation and harrassment. Interesting really.

Fascinating, of course. But in the scheme of things, I couldn't care less what you personally think about my posting style. Instead, I would like to stay on topic now without further adieu.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Ditto, and since you never answered me truth, I will ask you again: What is the point of this thread exactly?

[edit on 15-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Damn, why do people keep asking me this? I could have SWORN I've answered this at least 3 times already. Ah, well...

I want to shine light on the phenomenon of white privilege. There you go.

Well, IMO, I think the way it would be portrayed by the white media is what would cause most of the controversy. How about the news reports, "suspect is a male in his 30's", umm, wow, white reporters soo afraid of saying it was a black male, they could have at least given a description or something, granted, it's kinda redundant with the video footage, but they do it for everything else. All i'm saying is that when such a grevious act is commited, it would be different. Look at the whole Michael Richards episode, that started it up again, and he's not a cop. He was stating his "subconcious or concious" opinion in a comedy club. Whether we like it or not, it is still free speech, I don't like it, and neither do 90% of the rest of us, however, the situation is serious enough, that given the tables were turned, things would be different.

All M.R. did was spout racial slurs, and the black community is calling for a "social ban" on the N-word. Do you really think that it wouldn't happen that way?

There is just as much White priviledge as there is Black priviledge in this country.

By the way, that guy should have his sack sawed off with a rusty butterknife for doing that to an elderly woman.

Sick.

Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
There is just as much White priviledge as there is Black priviledge in this country.

By the way, that guy should have his sack sawed off with a rusty butterknife for doing that to an elderly woman.

Sick.

You're still comparing black apples with white oranges.

Notice that, with Michael Richards, there was NO DEBATING whether race was involved. With this crime, there is NO undeniable evidence that race motivated the attack. Hell, even John Walsh and Anderson Cooper discussed a possible AGE motivation, NOT race.

And, I guess you're right about black privilege. This explains why blacks make SO much more money than whites working the same jobs, live in gated communities, are not racially profiled when driving expensive cars, and are SO highly represented in the political arena, management positions in jobs, the media, and in politics.

Please.

Originally posted by ceci2006
But I like to talk about race because it is an aspect of society. And, it is such a shame that for a subject that I like to talk about, I get intimidated by others about it.

You can tell yourself that you're just' "talking about race" and you might even believe that and you can tell others that, but your agenda is clear. You can pay lip service to bettering racial relations, but darlin', you're doing just the opposite. You're ruining any chance of getting many people to see where you're coming from.

There are plenty of us who do "LIKE to talk about race" but you cannot participate in a discussion where people disagree with you without seeing it as some sort of an attack and you feel you need to either ignore dissenters (like you're ignoring me - which is fine) or you get REALLY nasty and get in trouble with the board. You don't know how to "be OK" about someone disagreeing with you.

I am genuinely interested in racial relations and that's a good reason to talk about it. But in thread after thread of yours, you belittle, attack, accuse and hate on "white people" as if we're totally to blame for the state of racial relations in the country today. You take NO (That's zero) responsibility or accountability for your part in the suck situation we find racial relations today.

The only way you can have a decent "discussion" about race is with those who agree with you 100%. You have a great discussion with your sources (who can't talk back) and with truthseeka, who has the same attitude about race and hates and blames white people as much as you do.

I agree that there are much more important issues we face today, but I have a personal interest in racial relations, so I totally understand race threads and your desire to "shine a light". But you cannot MAKE people see by attacking them and being nasty if they don't want to see. All the sources in the WORLD will not convince one who does not wish to see. You CANNOT open others' eyes.

And this isn't about "us" and "them", as much as you seem to want to make it that. We're all over the board on this issue.

Originally posted by ceci2006
There is a well known saying that "ignorance breeds contempt".

I never heard of that one, but I have heard "Familiarity Breeds Contempt". So if ignorance and familiarity both breed contempt, we're all contemptuous!

No one here feels contempt for what you've presented here. (Well, maybe a couple - but who cares about them?) But you're again, attacking and accusing those who don't agree with you 100%. In your little stroke-fest with truthseeka, you're lashing out at everyone who disagrees to any degree and labeling us as ignorant, contemptuous, intimidating, and whatever else you can throw in the mix.

You guys may be shining a light on white privilege, but in your "enthusiasm" to get others to see your point, you're not giving anyone a chance to look at it and see for themselves. You're (metaphorically) grabbing people by the neck and holding their face to the information while screaming insults at them and forcing them to read and understand and agree with you or ELSE!

This is not race boot camp. And the more you act like it is, the smaller your "audience" becomes.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

I'm not attacking you, I'm agreeing with you on a sub-level. There is absolutly everything you mentioned, it just goes back to the point I made in my first post, that we as a people have to change this screwed up way of thinking with our children, not by aruging about how jerked around we are. It's not just black and white either, it's all races, they each have their own equal share of problems and hardships, just as whites do, some more than others, but that doesn't mean the should bitch about it, but rise above it and prove they are truly better than they are given credit for. It's just like the bully in school, ignore him, or kick his butt, either way, he will eventually give up, and share lunch with you.

No harm intended.

Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
It's not just black and white either, it's all races, they each have their own equal share of problems and hardships, just as whites do, some more than others, but that doesn't mean the should bitch about it, but rise above it and prove they are truly better than they are given credit for. It's just like the bully in school, ignore him, or kick his butt, either way, he will eventually give up, and share lunch with you.

Growing up I had to deal with and over come the problem of being of spanish decent and you dont see me complaining about it.

Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
I'm not attacking you, I'm agreeing with you on a sub-level. There is absolutly everything you mentioned, it just goes back to the point I made in my first post, that we as a people have to change this screwed up way of thinking with our children, not by aruging about how jerked around we are. It's not just black and white either, it's all races, they each have their own equal share of problems and hardships, just as whites do, some more than others, but that doesn't mean the should bitch about it, but rise above it and prove they are truly better than they are given credit for. It's just like the bully in school, ignore him, or kick his butt, either way, he will eventually give up, and share lunch with you.

No harm intended.

I didn't say you attacked me, and if it came across that I did, my bad for that.

I'm also not saying that the existence of white privilege means that ALL non-whites are doomed to failure. Clearly, this is not the case.

What I AM saying is that it is not right for one group of people to be given unearned advantages throughout American society. Fact is, non-whites who work hard will reap benefits from this. HOWEVER, they will NOT be rewarded proportionately to their efforts due to white privilege. In fact, despite all this hard work, whites will still have access to more resources in society than they do.

The comparison of salaries for black and white men I sourced is a prime example. At the other end of this, whites who haven't necessarily worked as hard as non-whites, due to being on the good end of WP, will come out in a better position with less effort. This is not to say these people didn't have to put in work, but they undoubtedly do not have to put in as much work as non-whites, due to white privilege.

Originally posted by truthseeka

This goes back to those other sources I mentioned on the turnpike issue. Same old racist New Jersey police. At least some of the victims got justice for receiving the short end of the white privilege stick.

This is very sad to me. It goes back to the adage that if you as anyone of color about being "racially profiled", that most of us have either gotten this sort of treatement by the police or know someone who has.

I agree that some of the victims did get justice, and I am glad for that.

But, it is kind of unsettling that even with these examples, that there are many more that don't get covered in the news that have to endure this type of action every day of the year for nothing.

"Bad apples," huh? We see a state trooper have the nuts to come forward and admit that his superiors were ordering the racial profiling. From his words, we see that officers who racially profile do get promotions and do not get harassed. Funny how this is similar to the Iraq prison abuse scandal. The people doing the torturing were, you guessed it, "bad apples;" never mind that there were torture memos STRAIGHT from the White House.

Do you know what bugs me about this? It seems that you get rewarded for being part of institutional racism. White privilege works itself in by setting up the perceptions from racial profiling. The sad thing about this is that it doesn't take anything for some of the cops to believe this fact about people of color. And equated with the "not seeing racism" and "not seeing white privilege" aspect to it, it would even convey the fact that they are silently doing their part to keep this system in tact. What is of import here is that their actions of pulling over people of color only seems to reinforce the "scare tactics" about crime in suburbia: that persons of color (as perpetrators) are out to get you. And their actions in pulling people of color over seems to also convey the fact that the "police are doing their job"--especially when trying to round up anyone with brown skin that seems like a threat to society.

More holes are poked in the "bad apple" explanation here. Also, we see a pro athlete, CLEARLY a member of the upper class, STILL subjected to the ugly side of white privilege. On trumped up charges to boot.:shk:

So much for class, huh? I think that racial profiling, it is safe to say, goes across the board when it has to do with people of color. But then again, DWB also is symptomatic when you go into a store as well. A friend of mine told me that the store she worked in out east had a covert policy for the clerks to doggedly watch any persons of color who had entered the premises. So, it's a policy that continues to be practiced at a covert level no matter how anyone tries to bury it under the rug.

And again, we see white privilege in action. These men had guns pulled on them, were cuffed, then searched on trumped up charges, no, make that LIES. Not only had the crimes not even occurred in the CITY, but they did NOT fit the descriptions of the robbers.

These are also things that people of color have experienced, or know of someone who has. And, no matter how this might appear to someone who renders race "invisible", these aspects occur in the lives of their fellow everyday citizens. Most often, they go without any aspects of restitution. All the department has to say for themselves is that "they made a mistake".

Lot of stuff here. Once again, we see that class has no bearing on the ugly side of white privilege for blacks. This is at least the 3rd example I have provided of similar accounts in this thread.

With the sources you have posted, the argument about class goes out of the water. It does not matter how empathetic people from the dominant culture are or the fact that they know that white privilege exists. It matters that the aspects of white privilege happen on a daily basis with utter frequency. And, most often than not, it goes unnoticed due to a lack of conscience because it is more apropo to chalk this up as just "another day on the job"

I just think that this demonstrates the disparity in treatment that happens in law enforcement--either when it has to do within the department or when it happens to citizens on the street. What is most important is that these things are out there to let people know that they occur so that no one can say that this is something that they "cannot see". :shk:

Excellent sources, once again. I certainly hope that others will not ignore this.



[edit on 15-3-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by truthseeka

I'm also not saying that the existence of white privilege means that ALL non-whites are doomed to failure. Clearly, this is not the case.

I agree with this. The disparities of treatment and access in society should be discussed. That is of import here.

What I AM saying is that it is not right for one group of people to be given unearned advantages throughout American society. Fact is, non-whites who work hard will reap benefits from this. HOWEVER, they will NOT be rewarded proportionately to their efforts due to white privilege. In fact, despite all this hard work, whites will still have access to more resources in society than they do.

The sources discuss and examine this in whole. And with that being said, it is harder to deny that it does not happen when there are a number of people who keep track, analyze and study of the disparities of treatment in society.

The comparison of salaries for black and white men I sourced is a prime example. At the other end of this, whites who haven't necessarily worked as hard as non-whites, due to being on the good end of WP, will come out in a better position with less effort. This is not to say these people didn't have to put in work, but they undoubtedly do not have to put in as much work as non-whites, due to white privilege.

I'd also like to say that it has to do with perception as well. With these sources, it is harder to make the impression that people of color are doing less work. Although, it is a luxury from a WP standpoint to say so (in order to build up superiority in some).

[edit on 15-3-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
This is very sad to me. It goes back to the adage that if you as anyone of color about being "racially profiled", that most of us have either gotten this sort of treatement by the police or no someone who has.

I agree that some of the victims did get justice, and I am glad for that.

But, it is kind of unsettling that even with these examples, that there are many more that don't get covered in the news that have to endure this type of action every day of the year for nothing.

Damn right. Notice that, of 70% of the black people that were racially profiled, 67% of them had NO DRUGS on them. But hey, it was worth it to get that 3% that did have them; this STILL justifies racial profiling. Give me a bucking freak.

Do you know what bugs me about this? It seems that you get rewarded for being part of institutional racism. White privilege works itself in by setting up the perceptions from racial profiling.

This is a CRUCIAL point that you raised. White privilege sets up the perceptions, racial profiling acts on said perceptions and reinforces white privilege. Rinse, wash, repeat.

The sad thing about this is that it doesn't take anything for some of the cops to believe this fact about people of color. And equated with the "not seeing racism" and "not seeing white privilge" aspect to it, it would even convey the fact that they are silently doing their part to keep this system in tact.

Indeed. After all, they are ONLY following orders...OOPS, I thought they were bad apples.

What is of import here is that their actions of pulling over people of color only seems to reinforce the "scare tactics" about crime in suburbia: that persons of color (as perpetrators) are out to get you. And their actions in pulling people of color over seems to also convey the fact that the "police are doing their job"--especially when trying to round up anyone with brown skin that seems like a threat to society.

Of course. Never mind that 70% of violent crimes against whites are committed by whites (Fed's own numbers). Never mind that the suburbs are usually quite far away from the hoods (despite what the white kids who are "gangsta" would have you think ).

So much for class, huh? I think that racial profiling, it is safe to say, goes across the board when it has to do with people of color. But then again, DWB also is symptomatic when you go into a store as well. A friend of mine told me that the store she worked in out east had a covert policy for the clerks to doggedly watch any persons of color who had entered the premisis. So, it's a policy that continues to be practiced at a covert level no matter how anyone tries to bury it under the rug.

Yeah. On the DWB page for Wikipedia, they mention SWB (shopping while black ). It's funny cuz it's true.

These are also things that people of color have experienced, or know of someone who has. And, no matter how this might appear to someone who renders race "invisible", these aspects occur in the lives of their fellow everyday citizens. Most often, they go without any aspects of restitution. All the department has to say for themselves is that "they made a mistake".

But hey, instances like this STILL don't prove that race is important in American society.

I just think that this demonstrates the disparity in treatment that happens in law enforcement--either when it has to do within the department or when it happens to citizens on the street. What is most important is that these things are out there to let people know that they occur so that no one can say that this is something that they "cannot see".

:shk:

Hey, you don't see a thing when you have your eyes wide shut.

Excellent sources, once again. I certainly hope that others will not ignore this.

Care to take any wagers?

Of course. Never mind that 70% of violent crimes against whites are committed by whites (Fed's own numbers). Never mind that the suburbs are usually quite far away from the hoods (despite what the white kids who are "gangsta" would have you think

Fed's own numbers eh? Remember Truth you opened this can of worms.

www.ourcivilisation.com...

In the past 20 years, violent crime has increased more than four times faster than the population. Young blacks (under 18) are more violent than previous generations and are 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than young whites.

Most victims of race crime—about 90 per cent—are white, according to the survey "Highlights from 20 Years of Surveying Crime Victims", published in 1993.

Almost 1 million white Americans were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by black Americans in 1992, compared with about 132,000 blacks who were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by whites, according to the same survey.

Blacks thus committed 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent racial crimes of whites.

50 times the number of violent crime...50 times

When all the crime figures are calculated, it appears that black Americans have committed at least 170 million crimes against white Americans in the past 30 years. It is the great defining disaster of American life and American ideals since World War II.

Numbers can be twisted any way one chooses. Information from statistics and surveys can be manipulated also.
Fed's own numbers Truth.

You know, shooter, there's a funny thing about your source. The site you mentioned has stuff like this:

America's Euro- white historical race identity and its unique tradition of self- reliant freedoms, which created our national strength, are now being torn out at the roots: America is rapidly plunging into central-control statism and a mainly non-white nation.

Most whites yearn to live with their own kind and culture in white neighbourhoods and schools. They dare not say so openly for fear of being branded "racist," thus jeopardizing careers in a punishing regulatory web where even renting only to tenants of one's choice violates anti-discrimination "fair housing" laws.

So do all questions about the racial make-up of a neighbourhood when house-hunting (mere mention of such is taboo, so many whites just do "drive by" surveying secretively, and often, before buying).

Increasingly even the suburbs of many cities are now non-white...

As whites are driven away into ever more remote suburbs,...

These will probably play out in the 21st century as one, or some combination of, the following four scenarios (the first simply abandoning any serious effort for any solution at all):
1 Unresisting acquiescence to non-white dominance
2 Whites' takeback of their country
3 Secession of states from the U.S.
4 Racial separatism within the current U.S. Republic.

The nation's founders struggled with this multiracial dilemma two centuries ago, warning often that "this nation cannot exist both black and white."

The Euro-white race, with its unparalleled achievements of mind and innovation throughout history,...

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

:shk::shk::shk:


[edit on 15-3-2007 by truthseeka]

I never said I agreed with any of the info from the website Truth. I find it to be disgusting just as you do.

However, you in no way made any replies as to the newspaper article in question. Do you deny those numbers?

Bring all the hatemongering info you like; on the net there is hatemongering info for all. Seems hatemongering is the only equal oppurtunity in our society.

[edit on 15/3/2007 by shooterbrody]