The greatest injustice/conspiracy in the world - Oppression of Women

Sorry Forest Lady..
I dont buy much of that stuff either. Women quit fighting because it is easier to have fun in life than the commitments necessary to fight. Especially when you have such a huge market share directed to you ...why fight it ...enjoy it ..especially when you can work the system socially to play through.

Also..I never said women dont work..I said they dont as a whole buy big ticket items for men in the manner as do men for women...this is not equailty on the part of women. Understand yet. If you want equaity take the risks to get it ..not just automatically expect others to move over and allow one to play through.

Need a example of what I call High Maintenance..Nancy Pelosi wants a bigger jet on the system for her and her entourage. All the other speakers have made do with less than what she expects...she wants more and special considerations....by default. This is textbook of what I am explaining.

I have posted this before Forest Lady. The woman I currently see is an apartment manager..for some 15 years now. She has far more problems handling the women than the men. The men she can handle pretty quickly. The women tend to be much more subtle and crafty in thier social applications than do the men. The women she must tell them point blank wiht no subtilty exactly who is the Queen Bee in that office if they are so dumb socially that they dont get it in lieu of the taken for granted settings on their dials. Some are actually dumb enought to think they can use these social settings on their dials in a professional enviornment to the detriment of her office. They catch on quickly or she fires them. Far more women have been fired than men. The men usually quit. The men are mostly in the maintenance section which she sometimes runs when the maintenance manager is out.

I need to let you know you are speaking to a Heinz 57 here..that racial stuff cuts no mustard with me. It is meaningless. It is however standard issue mantra to gain leverage over others. I would go so far as to say that the same people are behind the scenes are grooming the womens groups as well as other Minoritys to take advantage of the same "Victim Dictum" for the same purposes...defaulting or playing through. I am certain of this as they tend to use the same victim fingerprint in thier operations.
I dont buy into this racial stuff either ..no matter who uses it.

The American Public needs to grow up quickly and learn to think this way..so these groups dont automatically play through as they are so wont to take for granted...based on public ignoranced and intimidation. I am not intimidated by this technique. Please dont waste your time and thoughts applying racial techniques/default settings on me to play through.

I also dont buy into this stuff about women being stronger..or superior in thier health than men. This is typical sophistry. I will remind you of who uses most of the prescription medicines and even non prescription medicines in this country. How many women do you readers know who much keep a plastic bag with thier various medicines in them daily?? Think this through carefully. If not for women much of the prescription pharmacy industry would go bottom up.

As for Childbirth..that is not even a issue anymore...especially with so many ways around this today. Also most of the risk is taken out of it today verses the time warp technique so popular with the femminists. This is apparently the best that most of the womens groups can do.

As I have stated many times ..take sex and sexuality away from the womans movement and what is left...not much. This is why they must spend so much time capitalizing on the sexual roles while denying men their sexuality. It allows them to play through unchallanged. I dont buy into this default either.
Just like these daytime drivel programs for women on the boob tube...take away the sex and sexuality what is left on the program..not much.
Do I need to take a lie detector test on this one!!!!???

I do agree that in some arenas women are in fact stronger than men and are also more sohisticated than most men in the perception arena. No doubt about this. The woman I am seeing has made this clear to me many times in her perception skills. Like radar seeing through the dark of night. She can spot subtiltys which I often and regularly miss.


I just dont buy into this stronger than men in toto. It is rubbish...but good politic to men easily intimidated and with only sports statistics in thier gray matter.

As to preconcieved opinions..I have them and they have been born out many times by women ..not men. I actually dont have much respect for what passes for men today as well as much of womanhood.

I am simply ..as usual, and Dawnstar can attest ..not going to let this default setting of the OP play through unchallanged or unquestioned. This is not the first time I have done this on ATA/BTS.

Some of you show a very lack of tolerance in your attempts to label and stereotype while claiming the same of me or others. Very intresting technique...to stiffle competition or dissent. It is however textbook of the femminist dogma. And by the way ..this is a religion about which I am speaking.
I can tell by your devoutness as well as Dawnstars zealousness.
But to her credit I must state that Dawnstar does not quite use the same textbook approach as do you Forest Lady.

X files makes a good point about wiles and also physical strength not being everything. I will remind the readers that there are out her many machines which today make labor easier and faster. Yet we dont see the labor roles being changed outside of narrow arenas. I mean this male and female both.

I am not saying like X files that women are as a whole lazy...socially they are just not motivated outside of certain arenas. The same can be said of many men today and I have stated so many times.
And like X files I dont see women as "victims of oppression." I see a whole system in place to make sure they are not oppressed. Very little or nothing for the men. I also see that women are not trying out for traditionally male roles in the work place as a whole. Those who do, dont stay in these occupations for long. The social roles are used often to work their way out of these environs to a more appealing work structure. Are all women like this ..no they are not..but it is more prevalent than ever spoken about in this arena. Find this statistic anywhere..You would be hard pressed to find it at all.

Equality to me means equal risk..not just defaulting through on social roles not perceived or understood by most peoples.

Oh..and one more thing..I disagree entirely with Reapers statement about men being more competitive and brave than women. I disagree entirely with his statement.

Women are very highly competitive in this social structure. Very Highly. It is just done on a level not perceived by most men. This is attributed to the social belief systems in play which are never made light on in boards like this. Different social values and beliefs. Meaning different methods.

As to brave...I dont believe this either. Try messing with a womans children and see what bravery happens. You will find yourself with a rabid tiger by the tail and you cannot let go. Very stupid thing for a man to do.
Ive seen a woman cut a man to ribbons with her tounge and never stop to catch her breath and a man sit there and take it. And this guy deserved every bit of this tounge lashing/cutting. It this arena theyare clearly superior and brave. Dont discount this for a minute. Many women have a razor sharp tounge when they have had enough BS from a man. If you must ever take on a woman like this be very very very sure of your position or you will find yourself bleeding like a stuck pig. I know this personally because it is the woman I am currently seeing who cut one of my coworkers to pieces when he was drinking in a local watering hole in stead of out getting his kids the shoes he needed to be getting them. I totally agree with her on what happened. He deserved every bit of it. I dont like drunk men or women around me. No respect for either.
And I dont have any respect for a man who will drink rather than take care of his house.

Thanks,
Orangetom

and the biggest default in history:

I am man, and this little cottage is my castle, and I am gonna have everything my way in my castle....God said so!!!

Oh boy, here we go again. Some standoff between males and females. My only comment on all of this that i'm suprised how stupid the human race must be if we cant accept women as our equals and the same species, in our modern times.

Reality check, nobody is superior over anybody, nobody has the right to treat women like a lower form. Especially religion needs to doublecheck their ways of belief and accept the fact that women can work just as hard as men can and believe as much as men can do.

Being a man, i do understand how women must think and feel about their daily lives. Think about it, less chance to get a good job, unwanted attention, criticism for the work nobody else wants to do.

Show them a little respect, atleast do that. Men may have had women under their commanding grasp in the past, but i think that humanity has alot more sense when you compare it to a century ago. If you have been given something, you must use it, in return, it only requires a little thought of logics to realise that women are of the same species and should have exactly the same rights as men have.

You cant compare humanity with animals, since we gained the ability to think, feel, speak, and to use common sense.

My apologies for not seeing your post yesterday till I was about to sign of and also shove off to work. I will attempt to reply here this morning.

OT, even the situation as you describe it is geared towards keeping women dependant upon men for their well-being. That being said, if you don't like having to spend money on "your" woman, then don't get one. If you don't like the way she is treating you, then dump her.

You are absolutely correct here and I have exercised both options. Thanks.
To get around the situation you describe about not being dependent on men for thier well being means a certain commitment level..not the appearence of commitment so that you never have to be committed. It means being integrated into something other than the taken for granted social skills of many women...a career in men...so that you dont really have to be committed.
I actually know a few women like this...and it frees them to come to a man for love only. They can if needed take care of themselves and children..too. Do most women think like this ..I think not.
The key operational word here is "Options" Most men I know cannot think this through..to much sports and cheerleaders blocking their thinking.

Sure, men and women are both sometimes victims in relationships, but the system is such that women are still dependent upon men. Your "victimhood" is voluntary; you choose your own relationships and you can end them whenever you like.

Quite correct again and once again I have done so..thanks.

A woman doesn't volunteer for things like getting paid less than men for the same work. If you want to complain that men are the victims in modern times, you are kidding yourself. If you go even further and say that this has always been the case, I have to question whether or not you are lying as well as kidding yourself.

Sorry Providence..women where I work get paid the same as men. I am in shipbuilding where we build submarines and aircraft carriers. This does not apply to me and I am not intrested in this mantra. Also I am not accountable for every woman this happens to way back to Adam and Eve. Also when a woman works on the job I am working I expect the same work that I get from a man. No default to play through unaccountable. I will stick a woman in a tight awkward hole as quickly as a man and have done so to get a job done.
Men are the victims of their own stupidity and insecuritys here in this and I have said so many times. They work for their own inequality and second class status with the moneys for which they take risks.

All these points you are trying to make does not explain who is paying for these goods and services in the stores around us if women make less moneys than men. This is the same tired olde mantra for which most men back up 500 paces to let the women play through unchallanged on this line.

Providence the key to this issue which is never brought up either by the womens groups or the natural stupidity of the men is ...who has the discretionary control over how the moneys are spent in this country...the men or the woman. The only issue posted in the victim doctrine/dogma is who earns less...never who has the discretion over how it is spent. This is alot of power and control. It is not victimization..no matter how you try to cut it. Someone certainly has a huge discretionary power over how it is spent at a 7 to 1 floor space and merchandize availability. Who controls the moneys ...not who earns them is key... and never brought up in posts like this. But we know this is true because so many buisnesses and advertisers know this trend. They count on this for their livings.

It is not the men ...they are way to stupid on this one.

Are you going to debate with me that women who earn as much as men or more than men are going to give a 7 to 1 discretion twords the men with thier career earnings? I doubt it..they are way smarter than this. Only a man can be this naturally dumb. The womens movements are not arguing for this much equality are they??

I will remind you that one of the dumbest stupidist videos I have ever seen was of two apes ...the male climbed down out of a very high tree where he gathered some eucaluptus branches. A female came along and wanted these succulent morsels..she got on her back and offered herself to the male. When he was done she took the branchs and walked off leaving the male with a stupid look on his face. What a dumb stupid male.

Just read the Bible: men could divorce a woman any time they wanted (the reverse was not true), women depended on men for the entirety of their wealth, a woman's testimony meant nothing in court, if a woman was not a virgin at the time of her marriage she would be executed (the reverse was not true), men were allowed to have multiple wives (the reverse was not true), men could keep concubines (the reverse was not true), women had no legal say in who they married, female slaves could be legally kept even when males slaves were required to be released, women were not allowed to become priests, women were sent into forced exile while they were on their period, the birth of a female child required more ritual cleansing than the birth of a male child, female children were literally considered worth less than male, women captives could legally be forced into marriage, and don't even get me started on the morally bankrupt rape laws.

I am not talking about time warp philosophy. I am talking today right now..women have it so fantastically good in this country they must spoil it by placebo debates.
Dont try to stick me back in a time warp for the purposes of your debate. you didnt live back then and neither did I.
I get this same stuff from people at work trying to debate slavery with me. I made this point about slavery to Forest Lady.

This debate is a placebo. None of you are countering the points I am making about 7to 1 ratios of goods and services or who purchases the automobiles for whom or any other points. Just more of the same mantras while telling me there is something wrong with my views for not wanting to go along with the status quo..no matter how much it isnt true.

You like someone else on this board are debating politics..not what is actually happening out here. Part of the politics is time warp techniques. What is called sticking events back somewhere in time and conducting ones self as if this is still going on. It just isnt so..especially in Western nations.

However ..once again..most men cannot think this through. They are so groomed/socialized to seek female approval just like that ape I described that they sit mute in stupidity. What a dumb bunch of men.
A female ape of equality would go up in the high branchs and get her own eucaliptus branch...even bring some down for the male. Oh..and this also demonstrates that evolution isnt happening. Little new happening here..LOL LOL LOL!!!!

Do I need to take a lie detector test on this one??? LOL LOL LOL!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

Mod Edit: BB Code.


[edit on 20/2/2007 by Mirthful Me]

and the biggest default in history:

I am man, and this little cottage is my castle, and I am gonna have everything my way in my castle....God said so!!!

Sorry Dawnstar...Dont go along with drama queens either. Male or Female.
Ive been around both types. It doesnt wash with me ..from either side.
Histronics either.


Mammoth,
I accept women as my equals...I expect alot from women just as any man I know. This is equality. If they cannot deliver and are high maintenance ...bye bye. Since by the standard mantra is that women are doing all that men are doing and doing it better than men...I can now expect more from women than I ever could. I just dont care for certain defaults to play through. I dont put up with certain defaults from men either.
I also dont approve of the social roles being used to promote inequality while preaching "victimization" to play through unchallanged. This is not equality.
What I also dont believe in is Male Expendability and Disposability.

I didnt start this thread. I just dont go along with the strategys used to play through without debate or stiffle dissent from what so many think is the normal status quo/entitlement.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 20/2/2007 by Mirthful Me]

I find it interesting that your entire thought process is limited to women of America.

My post is about women of the world, including, but not limited to, the country that you take such manly comfort in.

You are blinded by your own arrogance, and overall have your own agenda, obviously.

You won't listen to reasoning other than your own. We have several women who have posted about their lives, yet you totally disregard it because it isn't what you believe. They are women. I believe they know a little more about the subject than you do.

That line joking about evolution has nothing to do with anything in this topic by the way, but as often as those who are on the losing end of an argument do, you resorted to distraction tactics.

Every one of your posts is the same, regurgitated, one-sided point of view. You do not allow others to express their opinions without stating that you totally disagree.

If you feel that we are all wrong, and that you are correct, then do me a favor and keep your sexist views out of my thread. I have sat by long enough watching you try and derail it or turn it into an argument.

Obviously, you have some education, as you like to throw out large words throughout your excessively long posts. I, for one, however remain unimpressed at your ability to argue your point. Alot of what you type is sheer ego-boosting babble in my opinion. You have stated your point, on several occasions, and it is obvious that most everyone else that has chosen to post in this thread is in disagreeance.

I hated to resort to this, but your posts called for it.

Please, if you cannot prove your point besides using only your severely one-sided opinions, refrain from polluting my thread.

Thanks,
Azazelus

I completely agree with the thread title. Women are the most beautiful and fulfilling aspect of creation. I love them all! Truly i do. In fact, I think I will start my own cult. Women only, with me as their King? Ahhhahah, Just Kidding about the last part. Long live woman!


Regards

I find it interesting that your entire thought process is limited to women of America.

My post is about women of the world, including, but not limited to, the country that you take such manly comfort in.

You do know that I was born in Tripoli, Libya correct??

What are you going to tell me about the women of this world??

My mother worked much harder raising the four of us and taking care of my father too than do most of the women today..also much harder than many of the men today. My grandmother even harder..

You do know that sometime in the 1990s Hillary and Chelsa went to a womans conference in Lahore, India to represent womens issues. THe women of that country were shocked at what western women thought were important issues. They could not believe what was coming out of Hillarys mouth and the other Western women at the conference. It had little application to the current problems of Indian women. They were astonished but had to be civil for the conference.

What was that about the women of this world??

You won't listen to reasoning other than your own. We have several women who have posted about their lives, yet you totally disregard it because it isn't what you believe. They are women. I believe they know a little more about the subject than you do.

That line joking about evolution has nothing to do with anything in this topic by the way, but as often as those who are on the losing end of an argument do, you resorted to distraction tactics.

Every one of your posts is the same, regurgitated, one-sided point of view. You do not allow others to express their opinions without stating that you totally disagree.

I do listen to reasoning other than my own.. I cannot imagine what you are thinking here. Perhapsed you are not thinking. Would it make you feel better if I agreed with all across the board. You know ..like having a makeover instead. A lie detector test on this one too??

Once again neither you or the other posters here are showing me where I am incorrect on my posts..just claiming arrogance etc etc.
On the contrary..What I am getting is what you claim ...regurgitated without debating on my positions to show me where I am incorrect.

I believe the point about evolution was in support of my position about men or males looking for female approval. Trying out by male expendability and disposabilty and all round stupidity of the male. Seemed to go over your head.

If you feel that we are all wrong, and that you are correct, then do me a favor and keep your sexist views out of my thread. I have sat by long enough watching you try and derail it or turn it into an argument.

Obviously, you have some education, as you like to throw out large words throughout your excessively long posts. I, for one, however remain unimpressed at your ability to argue your point. Alot of what you type is sheer ego-boosting babble in my opinion. You have stated your point, on several occasions, and it is obvious that most everyone else that has chosen to post in this thread is in disagreeance.

I hated to resort to this, but your posts called for it.

Please, if you cannot prove your point besides using only your severely one-sided opinions, refrain from polluting my thread.

Do I need to let you default through without dissent or debate?? Is this the purpose of ATS/BTS to have only one side on any issue?? If someone disagrees with you stiffle them and label then names..sexist..etc etc.
Also I did not say you are all wrong. In places I agreed with some of the posters here..for example the point about Naomi Wolf and the "Myth of Beauty." Seemed to go over your head again.

As to Education I have little formal education. I also cannot surmise why you would think so...or that I am trying to impress you or others. I merely state my positions or beliefs about what I know. This is not acceptable on ATS/BTS??
Am I using foul language here..threats..etc etc. Please tell me if this is the case..I must be missing something here??

Am I to understand that dissent in debate is unacceptable on ATS/BTS??

THere is no attempt to derail this thread..only a dissenting opinion. Mayhapsed I used the wrong term here..I believe you stated "polluting" your thread. Once again is this censorship?? Debate or dissent on this issue is not healthy? Am I understanding this correctly?? Debate or dissent is polluting?? Can you clarify the position on ATS/BTS for me on this??

Thanks,
Orangetom

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 20/2/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by reaper2
hope i don't sound like a sexist but i think part of the reason men and women are not equal is because men are more driven, competetive, more brave and confident, and physicaly stronger. And i believe this gives man the edge over women in society wrongly or rightly it's just nature.

Women are more wiley than you think and physical strength isnt everything. As far as being driven, well women have a biological function/need that most choose to address and hence, dont have time to create devilishly clever economic schemes, etc. Even though some do anyway.

I will NEVER say women are lazy. That is just so far from the truth its funny. My mother works in a factory, has raised 3 kids, and always manages to keep a spotless house. It's truly amazing. As for women my age, well they sure as hell arent lazy either. Ive seen them raise a kid, go to school, work and put up with a nutjob boyfriend/husband.

I guess I was raised differently. I dont see women as victims of opression.

great post by the way.

My friend i must agree with you women are far from lazy for the above reasons, i was not saying women are lazy.

What i should have said is men are more aggressive in general and this does cause women to be subdued generally

Now what would make me think yours is a sexist comment, surely not the fact that you boldly state that "men and women are not equal". Not only is it erroneous, it's also way, way offtopic. We are not discussing the "equality" of men and women, nor is the topic meant to induce a rash of sexist, women-are-inferior posts.

I am not saying men are better than women to the contrary men have been responsible for many if not all the ills of the world to date just that they are evidently not the same as women is all im saying. and it is not erraneous its a fact men and women differ in both physicaly and mental attitudes, its not that men are in anyway smarter but the sexes do approach situation differently.

Aggressive behaviour does tend to explain people who like to dominate.. namely MEN.

If anything take comfort women don't tend to me murderes, psychos, rapist etc. etc. etc.

As for women not preaching in the church well take it or leave it the bible is clear women should not speak in the church so if you don't like it dont read the bible and don't go to church, as the church is clear men and women are not to be treated equally and bible has stated from the begginig that Eve was a help for Adam almost like an arter thought.

peace

Reaper

men rule because women cant co-operate. sure one woman in a room full of men will likely be the shinning star, but add one more woman and all hell breaks loose. the only connection women have one another is their hatered towards men. women are just as viciouse and unforgiving as man, but at least we can still call eachother brothers without claiming NO WOMEN

Originally posted by reaper2

great post by the way.

My friend i must agree with you women are far from lazy for the above reasons, i was not saying women are lazy.

What i should have said is men are more aggressive in general and this does cause women to be subdued generally

I am not saying men are better than women to the contrary men have been responsible for many if not all the ills of the world to date just that they are evidently not the same as women is all im saying. and it is not erraneous its a fact men and women differ in both physicaly and mental attitudes, its not that men are in anyway smarter but the sexes do approach situation differently.

Aggressive behaviour does tend to explain people who like to dominate.. namely MEN.

If anything take comfort women don't tend to me murderes, psychos, rapist etc. etc. etc.

As for women not preaching in the church well take it or leave it the bible is clear women should not speak in the church so if you don't like it dont read the bible and don't go to church, as the church is clear men and women are not to be treated equally and bible has stated from the begginig that Eve was a help for Adam almost like an arter thought.

peace

Reaper

hey thanks, I do agree that men are physically stronger and more agressive. The fights between the boys in my high school often shocked and I think scared the girls as they were often bloody and merciless.

In ancient times the easiest job for a man was that of a warrior. The training came easier, the men were stronger, and I think fighting comes very naturally to some men. I mean, it was either that or hard work.

Men do have a tendency to be outspoken and bold, not only in actions but in conversation. I cant count how many times I have seen guys say things to women that their mothers would smack them for. And women lap it up, they blush and enjoy the attention. Women complain they are treated as sexual onjects, but some women encourage this. I see women wearing these VERY tight jeans and bend over in front of a guy she knows is either going to check her out, or pinch or her rear. So women know how the game works too, they arent innocent little creatures in all of this.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Men do have a tendency to be outspoken and bold, not only in actions but in conversation. I cant count how many times I have seen guys say things to women that their mothers would smack them for. And women lap it up, they blush and enjoy the attention. Women complain they are treated as sexual onjects, but some women encourage this. I see women wearing these VERY tight jeans and bend over in front of a guy she knows is either going to check her out, or pinch or her rear. So women know how the game works too, they arent innocent little creatures in all of this.

That is because women have been conditioned to believe that their sexiness and beauty are all that matter to men/the world and since we are taught to OBEY and to please others, we try to fit the mold. And since men are taught to expect that women will always be beautiful and sexy, they buy into it. But the kind of behavior you're describing above isn't something which is inherent in women, it is something that is socially imposed on us through media, books, advertising, etc. We are expected to be compliant, to not make waves and to not have opinions. When we break that mold, we are vilely insulted, verbally raped and in general humiliated to the extent that it is easier for most women to simply comply and do what they're told. Some of us pay a great price for being outspoken, more than most men can ever imagine. We shrink up inside ourselves, become intimidated and do whatever we can to avoid that kind of extreme humiliation. There are still many places in the world where it is not only condoned, but expected that a man will hit his wife and children, to "beat them into submission". Even here in the U.S.A. more women are beaten by their partners than are not.

And it's extremely frustrating because no matter how much we try to talk with our men, they just don't see what it is we're talking about, because they do't want to learn and change their behaviors regarding this situation. And why should they? They are in charge, running govts, corporations, etc. and who wants to give up a position of power? Instead of open-mindedness we are met with sullen silence, withdrawal of affection, humiliation and more verbal abuse. So why should women keep on trying to educate when it gets us nowhere except beat up, either psychologically or physically.
Now I"m not saying all men are this way, but there are still too many that think this way and won't listen. Many men have no idea how much they are hurting their wives, daughters and mothers when they act as misogynists, dismissing us as just being emotional, irrational or "on her period". It also makes us love these kind of men less and to lose respect for them.

This may surprise some folks, but there are many women who's lives do NOT orbit around a man. Throughout all my life, I never wanted to give up my independence, because I just couldn't see living my life with someone who was rude, insensitive, disrespectful of women's opininions, and all the other things so many men feel they must do. There are many, many women like me, who have careers, friends, lives, they travel, they do all sorts of things and they are quite happily single. I know lots of them. We just don't care to be abused any more. by a man who is supposed to love us but denigrates and humiliates us instead. It's called self-respect.

Originally posted by forestlady

That is because women have been conditioned to believe that their sexiness and beauty are all that matter to men/the world and since we are taught to OBEY and to please others, we try to fit the mold. And since men are taught to expect that women will always be beautiful and sexy, they buy into it.

This may surprise some folks, but there are many women who's lives do NOT orbit around a man. We just don't care to be abused any more. by a man who is supposed to love us but denigrates and humiliates us instead. It's called self-respect.

Firstly women are beutiful and sexy to us men and always will be it a natural instinct to find woment attractive, and thank God.

Second to that a women can be in a happy relationship and her life not orbit around her man, rather they both orbit around each other like binary star.. how beatiful

A man should love his women and respect her, she should come first and last in his life, and anyman who mistreats his women is not deserving of her. it sounds like you have had a bad experienc but i ask please not to hold all men responsible as many of us are Good and worthy of any womens attention.

By the way my boss is a women and she ROCKS

Nough Respect

Reaper

What needs to be done is read and study the role of women through historical context, instead of personal views...

There was mention of the goddess religions, the Bible calls them the mystery religions. We call them the cults of Isis, Semeramis, the three Marys, etc, etc...many different names and labels. Basically they were geared towards Nature observances, Sex played large role in rituals, women had roles of leadership shared with men.

The shift away from this structure began with Greece....Diana was a Goddess of Nature previous to Greek civilization. In Greece she became a hunter, armed with a bow and arrow. This is the pattern of "spiritual Assimilation" from this point on, The virgin Mary being the most recognizable example. The Bible has very little reference regarding Mary....yet there exists massive widespread belief in the "queen of heaven", which is the term for A female Religious Icon that preceed Jesus by thousands of years.
The new religion that replaces the Old, takes previous Icons and beliefs, twists and adapts them to replace the Old it must destroy.

In this process women have been pushed farther and farther down. Where women once shared ruling power in culture, they were stripped of authority, even hunted and burned alive ( the witch hunts of the middle ages).
The historical record depicts a slow downward spiral in the general context for the role of women.


Today we have various underlying mixed influences in the world...women do in fact represent the largest voting block, and the largest segment of purchasing power in the world.
So why the continued problems?...women need to organized and convert the voting block and purchasing power into a platform for change. When women organize, change will occur.

Would like to address the comment regarding Hillary and Chelsea in India. The trip to India was to promote various programs, one of which is called Micro-credit. To date this is the only proven method to change impoverished regions into a higher economic class. It is geared towards women, the test trials did not work when men were involved. It truly works, and is the best method to reduce poverty, promote independance and establish a middle class where non existed.
I worked on the program and helped develop the Model used in India. There are thousands of Familys in India enjoying higher standard of living because of the visit and promotion of these programs that Hillary Clinton took upon herself.

Enjoyed reading the varying viewpoints on this thread

Originally posted by tom goose
men rule because women cant co-operate. sure one woman in a room full of men will likely be the shinning star, but add one more woman and all hell breaks loose. the only connection women have one another is their hatered towards men. women are just as viciouse and unforgiving as man, but at least we can still call eachother brothers without claiming NO WOMEN

TomGoose,
I dont believe men rule...at all. I do agree with your rationale about one woman in a crowd of men and then put in another.

But being responbsible and ruling are not the same thing as being optional and getting access to goods and services at great risk..to someone else than ones self.

I do know that women can be quite viscious and unforgiving especially to each other in competition.

X files fan..as to men being warriors..this is highly overated..to me it is just more male expendability and disposability often for very stupid reasons since when the wars are over the real generals move in and take over ..set up shop...General Motors, General Foods, General Electric and all the other generals. The beneficiarys of this are women and children and soon enough they dont even remember or are taught what the wars are or have been are about. Really dumb of men.

As for men being bold in conversation...I will remind you that only impresses a certain kind of woman..the others not at all. Most can see through much of this no problem. Remember my post above about womans radar.

Women dont like to see blood spilt..I dont blame them for this ..some men can be really dumb here. It does however mean that women also dont like or are drawn to certain risk.

But on the other hand many women..not all are innocent creatures in this as you aptly post. There are women who do not play the games you post. I can respect women like this. They are few and far between and a valuable commodity in the marketplace...pretty rare to me.

Gotta shove off ,

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom

oh well, orange, I don't buy your bit either.

I would assume that anyone that you have to go out and spend of fortune for, or bend over backwards for to get their affection just doesn't care enough about you to begin with? obviously, the idea of creating babies with such a person should be discounted very quickly? wouldn't it be better if we could just get into the mindset where hey you do what you want, I'll do what I want, and well, if we find that live with the decisions that each other are making, well, we might think about the baby making bit? maybe, after a long discussion of just how we are gonna handle the baby if it comes?

unfortunely, young people are just kind of foolish in some ways and the babies are made before they mature enough to realize this. and well, once the babies are in the picture, it kind of throws your nice little world out the window. throw a few babies into the world of the average american family and you aren't squabbling about who should be doing this or that, or who is buying the big ticket items for whom.....chances are good, that there's no money to buy much in the big ticket items, only plastic credit cards anyways...and well, in marriage the debt legally becomes the responsibility of both partners! so they both are buying it.

the problems come in when they just aren't willing to reach out and help the other one out when life knocks them down. they decide to keep on going as though it's not their problem. they aren't willing to bend over backwards for the one they've chosen to spend their life with. so, the man, fails to earn enough to pay for this nice family he helped to create, and well, he doesn't want extend a hand to his wife by taking charge of the kids while she works, or she just won't have it and well the consequences are either he's killing himself working two jobs or they aren't meeting their financial needs. or the baby's sick and keeping one up all night, and we all know that it's mom's job to do this, so dad is getting a good night's rest, mom, since dad has failed to provide for the family, is running to work half dead from lack of sleep. or, the stay at home mom is sick and needs medical care....but dad decided that the family plan was just too expensive so she goes without.
the solution to all this squabbling used to be that dad made the decision, and well, everyone just had to live with it....regardless of the consequences...
now, they've done a few things to take some of this "god given" authority from the dad.....if the women doesn't like the decisions, she can always opt to remove herself and her kids from her home and into a nice state funded shelter till some nice government employee picks up her folder and processes her claim for a bunch of government subsidized housing. meanwhile, dad just might find himself in a position where his paycheck is being hacked up so badly by childsupport that he can't even afford a roof over his head in the slummiest of neighborhoods! ya, this works out just well and dandy, doesn't it...
words are just words, action is action...they proclaimed equality for women, but then they threw them a nice bribe instead. and of course, many were content to just take the bribe and be happy. if they couldn't live with their husband as lord, there was always the government subsidized mess to substitute!
you want to know why men buy the most big ticket items, it's because they are making and controlling the most money!
you want to know why women are always handed custody of the children, it's because they are still serving the function of the primary caregiver of the children!
you want to know why men still repair the cars....well, ask my husband what his reaction would be if I tried to fix his car!! he'd probably have a heart attact running out the door to take the hammer out of my hands.

why don't I learn to fix cars?? I DON'T HAVE TIME TO LEARN THAT WHICH MY HUSBAND ALREADY KNOWS! and in all sanity...it doesn't make sense to. it's impractical. not any more than me thinking that he's gonna learn to screenprint, or cook some of the meals I make, ect...

but well, I got off track and started rambling, and it's now time for me to leave for work...
we each have the final say in what we do in our lives....of course we also have to face the consequences of the decisions we make.
once kids come into the picture, doesn't matter if you are a man or a women, if you don't do some give and take, work real hard to figure it out, the consequences of not getting along with the person you created those children with is gonna be rather unpleasant...
better to do what you can to make it work.

by the way, the original topic, about the religions, umm...it's a valid point. and well, consider the political power these groups are trying to grasp. it's worth discussion, since they chose to take those decisions from you as well as me!



[edit on 21-2-2007 by dawnstar]

Would like to address the comment regarding Hillary and Chelsea in India. The trip to India was to promote various programs, one of which is called Micro-credit. To date this is the only proven method to change impoverished regions into a higher economic class. It is geared towards women, the test trials did not work when men were involved. It truly works, and is the best method to reduce poverty, promote independance and establish a middle class where non existed.
I worked on the program and helped develop the Model used in India. There are thousands of Familys in India enjoying higher standard of living because of the visit and promotion of these programs that Hillary Clinton took upon herself.

El Fuego,

Thanks for this part of your post. Very intresting. I did not know this facet of what came out of this. Only that in the original meeting in Lahore, India the local women were appalled at what passed for women and womens values by what the Western women were saying. It had little or no significance to the daily problems of the non Western women in the meeting.

I would like to know why the test trials did not work where men were concerned. I find this very intresting. I suspect that it has to do with the customs of that country. Why it worked here in the West and did not work there. By this I mean the feudal system and customs many of which survice to this day.
This intrests me greatly.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 21-2-2007 by orangetom1999]

Hello Orangetom.

Micro Credit are various programs, the one i worked with is basically this;
There are four non related women selected from the village or city and given 100 or more ( USD ) each. This money is to purchase goods, manufacturing equipment, suppplies, whatever the woman believes she can use to resell, or finish raw goods and sell at a profit.
NO other group is given money in that village until all 4 women repay the original 100 each was given. This creates pressure on repayment of capital, and peer incentive to help each group achieve its goals.
This has worked very well, and surpassed expectations set by the foundations and people managing this system.

It does not work well with men because money was mis spent, many times used to purchase alcohol or illicit activities.

Originally posted by el fuego

Hello Orangetom.

Micro Credit are various programs, the one i worked with is basically this;
There are four non related women selected from the village or city and given 100 or more ( USD ) each. This money is to purchase goods, manufacturing equipment, suppplies, whatever the woman believes she can use to resell, or finish raw goods and sell at a profit.
NO other group is given money in that village until all 4 women repay the original 100 each was given. This creates pressure on repayment of capital, and peer incentive to help each group achieve its goals.
This has worked very well, and surpassed expectations set by the foundations and people managing this system.

It does not work well with men because money was mis spent, many times used to purchase alcohol or illicit activities.

Ahh...Thanks for this view and explanation. By my previous posts I dont agree with this conduct among men or women for that matter. I disapprove of it greatly. I see now. Reminds me of some of the storys coming out from New Orleans since the Hurricane.

Are there any other nations where these types of programs are in effect??
How about here in the West??

Thanks,
Orangetom

Can you please create another topic to discuss this issue, as you are totally steering my thread off topic.

Thank you.