Doubletree Hotel Video

I did not see anyone post this ( i dont think i did at least ) its the video from the Doubetree hotel across from the pentagon..





(edit to embed video)

[edit on 15-2-2007 by SkepticOverlord]

Well, just like the other two videos surrounding the pentagon, I viewed this one with a great desire to see an airplane.
Just like the other two videos, I am left still wanting to see an airplane.

Why cant I see this damn airplane?

Can somebody help me here?
Where is the airplane?

You did see an airplane, remember? Oh wait, look behind you. Is that the television? Hey now, is that American Idol?

Oh man, I can't wait to see Simon's face when someone doesn't sing very well.

Doesn't a beer sound good about now? If you have a beer at least Paula Abdul won't be alone, waka waka. Paula's so crazy.
So what's on after American Idol?

Wait a sec, what were we talking about? Eh, it doesn't matter anyway

[edit on 2/14/2007 by Sunsetspawn]

I saw the Tail Fin section of an airplane...going very fast and very low.

The location of the camera prevents the whole plane from being shown, but logic would follow: If a plane disappears in Washington (flt 77) on 9/11/2001, and you see a video of an object with a large tail-fin going extremely fast, directly into the Pentagon..... Then Flt 77 was flown into the Pentagon.

I realize this isn't as much fun as concocting a complex plan.

I *truly* feel this whole 9/11 conspiracy industry has stemmed from people's (Americans) need to cope.

Let me explain:

If we can go back and rewatch the horrible events that unfolded many times over, not as shocked victims anymore--but now as "Investigative analysts" empowered with the quest for "truth" --it has a therapeudic effect, a desensitization.

The 9/11 conspiracy theory works as a bridge to get people involved in understanding, and attempting to cope. (I know there are people out there that just say .."heck, 9/11 never affected me; So this whole learning to cope thing doesn't apply to me" but deep down...it did/still does)

This is a good thing!

After the initial *9/11 conspiracy RUSH* of "OMG!! I just became ENLIGHTENED" one hopes that reason, logic, and critical analysis drives ones fact finding mission. EVEN if the analysis goes against what one wants the outcome to be.

Those individuals that present fallacy as fact are irresponsible citizens IMO, and are dangerous to people that lack critical thinking skills.

Originally posted by GwionX
I saw the Tail Fin section of an airplane...going very fast and very low.

Where?

The location of the camera prevents the whole plane from being shown, but logic would follow: If a plane disappears in Washington (flt 77) on 9/11/2001, and you see a video of an object with a large tail-fin going extremely fast, directly into the Pentagon..... Then Flt 77 was flown into the Pentagon.

Flight 77 disappeared over Kentucky on 9/11. A plane appeared on radar 50 miles outside of Washington on 9/11 that did not identify itself, nor was it identified by ATC as Flight 77.

You see, the great thing about logic is that it relies on factual information, not assumptions. What's missing from the 9/11 investigation are hard facts. E.g., a glimpse of a tail fin or a flash of smoke does not equal a plane, let alone Flight 77.

Under normal circumstances I would agree with your assumptions. When billions, if not trillions of dollars are involved, and when the U.S. has already shown itself capable of faking hijackings in order to start a war (Northwoods) I think the evidence must meet a higher standard than just assumptions.

Those individuals that present fallacy as fact are irresponsible citizens IMO, and are dangerous to people that lack critical thinking skills.

Sounds like you're describing the 9/11 Commission, FEMA, the NIST, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice.

Imo, the ones controlling other people's lives, other people's money, and WMD's are more dangerous than people on the internet posting their opinions.

I realize this isn't as much fun as concocting a complex plan.

Originally posted by GwionX
I realize this isn't as much fun as concocting a complex plan.

Why not try answering some tough questions re 9/11?

Who at the FAA caused the fighters to be scrambled away from the incoming hijacked airliners?

P.S. I realize this isn't a much fun (or comforting) as believing everything the government tells you.

[edit on 14-2-2007 by nick7261]

I don't believe everthing the government tells me...however my experience has been when the government #s up, it isn't because they are diabolical..it is because they are incompetent.

Yeah someone at the FAA skrewed the pooch on 9/11 they got the numbers 11 and the numbers 77 mixed up... (visulize a radar screen with a person who has never had experience with several hi-jacked aircraft in-flight before; and attempting to understand what is going on---Put yourself in that seat for 45 minutes on 9/11/2001...How would you have fared when plugged for critical immediate information?) I am sure no one wanted to believe that many planes were out of the pilots control on the same day.

America was attacked by a very real group of muslim extremists on 9/11 ..I DON"T believe this because the U.S. Government says so. The plan worked due to its simplicity, not its complexity.

Originally posted by GwionX

Yeah someone at the FAA skrewed the pooch on 9/11 they got the numbers 11 and the numbers 77 mixed up... (visulize a radar screen with a person who has never had experience with several hi-jacked aircraft in-flight before;

Bzzzzz -wrong answer!

Nobody got the numbers of Flight 77 and Flight 11 screwed up. The fact that you even came up with such an odd explanation shows that you might want to do a little bit more homework on this subject.

The FAA called NORAD and told them that Flight 11 did NOT hit WTC1 and was heading SW from New York towards Washington D.C. According the the 9/11 Commission Report, NORAD wasn't even notified that Flight 77 was a hijacking until after it crashed.

There is nobody (except you) who is claiming that an ATC got the numbers 11 and 77 confused.

The 9/11 Commission, after spending $15 million "investigating" how 9/11 happened, couldn't even answer the most basic, and most important question: How did Flight 77 avoid U.S. air defense for 30+ minutes after it was hijacked and hit the Pentagon?

Their answer, that an unidentified source at the FAA reported a "phantom" Flight 11 heading towards Washington is absurd. How could anybody have seen Flight 11 heading towards Washington when it was already off the radar? Plus, the transponders were turned off, so there was no flight numbers showing on the radar screens for any of the hijacked flights, so getting the numbers 11 and 77 confused isn't a feasible explanation.

So do you honestly believe that not only did the government totally screw up the air defense of Washington D.C. on 9/11, but that the 9/11 Commission totally screwed up the investigation too? The 9/11 Commission really couldn't figure out who it was at the FAA who caused the fighters to be scrambled away from the hijacked airplanes?

C'mon, even the incompetent government, after 3 years and $15 million dollars, could find out who it was at the FAA who called NORAD, don't you think?

You can see small cars traveling on the freeway that the plane had to fly over, but for some reason you dont see the huge effin jumbo jet flyin' over the freeway?????

Bzzzzz -wrong answer!

Nobody got the numbers of Flight 77 and Flight 11 screwed up. The fact that you even came up with such an odd explanation shows that you might want to do a little bit more homework on this subject.

The FAA called NORAD and told them that Flight 11 did NOT hit WTC1 and was heading SW from New York towards Washington D.C. According the the 9/11 Commission Report, NORAD wasn't even notified that Flight 77 was a hijacking until after it crashed.

There is nobody (except you) who is claiming that an ATC got the numbers 11 and 77 confused.

Transponders or not...it is a simple feasible explaination..and a *prime example* of how one hand of our government isn't knowing what the other is doing. i.e uncoordinated incompetence.

In a pre-9/11 world, uncoordinated incompetence was the pathos du jour.

Their answer, that an unidentified source at the FAA reported a "phantom" Flight 11 heading towards Washington is absurd. How could anybody have seen Flight 11 heading towards Washington when it was already off the radar?

Easy, they didn't see flight 11..they saw an off-course flight 77 and make an incorrect assumption it was in-fact the same plane..which we all know it was not. The scrambled jets were out of position but still close enough to the Pentagon to get a visual... This tells me that the moment flight 77 reappeared on radar FAA made the incorrect call, unintentionally diverting the F-16's flightpath. Incompetence..not villany.



[edit on 14-2-2007 by GwionX]

Originally posted by sp00n1
You can see small cars traveling on the freeway that the plane had to fly over, but for some reason you dont see the huge effin jumbo jet flyin' over the freeway?????

Yeah, I saw what looks like a semi-truck/trailer combo go by, but NO PLANE.
How could a 757 have a lower profile then cars?
Where is that damn plane!

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by sp00n1
You can see small cars traveling on the freeway that the plane had to fly over, but for some reason you dont see the huge effin jumbo jet flyin' over the freeway?????

Yeah, I saw what looks like a semi-truck/trailer combo go by, but NO PLANE.
How could a 757 have a lower profile then cars?
Where is that damn plane!

Ok I took the liberty to help ya'll out here. The cars and Trucks are in the FOREGROUND on an OVERPASS. The plane comes in far BEHIND the vehicles Look at this image with my geographical indicators..then watch the video again...you will then understand how big that tail fin is..and how fast it was going.

Originally posted by GwionX

Transponders or not...it is a simple feasible explaination..and a *prime example* of how one hand of our government isn't knowing what the other is doing. i.e uncoordinated incompetence.

In a pre-9/11 world, uncoordinated incompetence was the pathos du jour.

Do I really need to link you to the 9/11 report where it shows that your simple feasible explaination is total nonsense?

9/11 Commission Report, Page 26
Military Notification and Response. NORAD heard nothing about the search for American 77. Instead, the NEADS air defenders heard renewed reports about a plane that no longer existed:American 11.

At 9:21, NEADS received a report from the FAA:

FAA: Military,Boston Center.I just had a report that American 11 is still in the air, and it’s on its way towards—heading towards Washington.

NEADS: Okay. American 11 is still in the air?

FAA:Yes.

NEADS: On its way towards Washington?

FAA: That was another—it was evidently another aircraft that hit the
tower.That’s the latest report we have.

NEADS: Okay.

FAA: I’m going to try to confirm an ID for you, but I would assume
he’s somewhere over, uh, either New Jersey or somewhere further
south.

NEADS: Okay. So American 11 isn’t the hijack at all then, right?

FAA: No, he is a hijack.

NEADS: He—American 11 is a hijack?

FAA: Yes.

NEADS: And he’s heading into Washington?

FAA: Yes.This could be a third aircraft.

The mention of a “third aircraft”was not a reference to American 77.

www.gpoaccess.gov...


The person on the phone from the FAA told NEADS that there was a report that Flight 11 was over New Jersey, or somewhere further south, and was heading towards Washington D.C.

There is no chance, zero, nada, nill, zilch chance that the FAA was referring to Flight 77 in this conversation. The FAA even confirmed that it was another plane that hit WTC1, not Flight 11.

After reading the above transcript, can you honestly say that the FAA mistakenly was referring to Flight 77 in this conversation with NEADS? Flight 77 was near the Ohio/Kentucky border, nowhere near New Jersey.

Easy, they didn't see flight 11..they saw an off-course flight 77 and make an incorrect assumption it was in-fact the same plane..which we all know it was not. The scrambled jets were out of position but still close enough to the Pentagon to get a visual... This tells me that the moment flight 77 reappeared on radar FAA made the incorrect call, unintentionally diverting the F-16's flightpath. Incompetence..not villany.

You really need to do your homework before you start posting theories that have nothing to do with the known facts.

1) Nobody saw the "off-course" Flight 77. It disappeared from radar over Kentucky.

2) The scrambled jets were not close enough to get a visual. It was the C-130H National Guard plane that got the visual.

3) The incompetence is not only in what caused the fighters to be diverted away from the hijacked planes, but in the total lack of investigation done by the 9/11 Commission.

How is it that the 9/11 Commission couldn't identify who it was at the FAA that gave the false report re Flight 11?

Look, what I can tell you from that transcript is -- The FAA was obviously confused.

Why is it such a stretch that the identity of flight 11 and flight 77 were also confused?

Jersey or more South. Where does this come from? It comes from a person thinking flight 11 is still in the air heading toward Washington from the New york area...the statement: "or somewhere further South." Indicates they don't know exactly where it is...But some ATC recalls seeing 11 or 77 further south.

It was actually Flight 77 heading for Washington. Obviously, hindsight is 20/20.

The person that made the call is probabally grief stricken...Why add insult to injury by releasing his or her name so CT's can badger them.

The only reason this video was released is because it doesn't show the aircraft.

If there wasn't a cover up, they would release ALL the frames from the Pentagon security camera. Or the 4+ other videos from other places. They wont though, because it shows the jet, which is what the government is trying to hide.

Originally posted by GwionX
Look, what I can tell you from that transcript is -- The FAA was obviously confused.

How can you assume the FAA was "confused?" What if somebody within the FAA wanted to make sure that Flight 77 and Flight 93 were not intercepted? What if, God forbid, there are al-Qaeda operatives working within the FAA?

Why is it such a stretch that the identity of flight 11 and flight 77 were also confused?

A stretch doesn't even begin to describe the theory that the FAA confused Flight 11 and Flight 77. Read the freakin' transcripts before you ask questions like this!!

Here's why it's a stretch...

1) Here's a big reason... Flight 11 hit WTC1 at 8:46 am! Everybody in the country except the guy from the FAA on the phone with NEADS knew this by 9:21 am.

2) The FAA never advised NEADS that Flight 77 was even hijacked. The FAA first advised NEADS at 9:34 that Flight 77 was missing.

3) If the FAA would have mixed up Flight 11 and Flight 77, they would have seen that Flight 77 was WEST of Washington D.C. when they told NEADS that Flight 11 was NE of Washington D.C.

Why is it such a stretch for you to actually look at the facts? Flight 77 was near West Virginia when the FAA told NEADS that Flight 11 was over New Jersey.

Jersey or more South. Where does this come from?

Gee, I don't know. I think it was the 9/11 Commission's job to find this out.

It comes from a person thinking flight 11 is still in the air heading toward Washington from the New york area...the statement: "or somewhere further South." Indicates they don't know exactly where it is...But some ATC recalls seeing 11 or 77 further south.

Nope, no ATC saw Flight 11 or Flight 77 anywhere. Flight 11 was already crashed, and Flight 77 was off radar over Kentucky or West Virginia. The transponders, which broadcast the flight numbers, were turned off. No ATC saw Flight 11 or Flight 77 anywhere at 9:21 am on 9/11.

It was actually Flight 77 heading for Washington. Obviously, hindsight is 20/20.

There's zero chance it was Flight 77 that the FAA was referring to. What about this don't you get? Flight 77 was off radar near Kentucky. The FAA thought Flight 77 was missing and had crashed.

The person that made the call is probabally grief stricken...Why add insult to injury by releasing his or her name so CT's can badger them.

Why identify the person at the FAA who told NEADS that Flight 11 did not crash into the WTC1, thereby causing the United States military headquarters to be attacked? Are you serious?

How about these reasons...

1) Maybe this person at the FAA was complicit in the attacks

2) Maybe once this person was identified, other witnesses might come forward to testify that they saw this person hanging out with Mohammed Atta at a strip club in Boston.

3) Maybe this person is still working at the FAA and could sabotage U.S. Air Defense again.

4) Maybe because the entire purpose of the 9/11 Commission was to identify what went wrong on 9/11 and how to prevent it from happening again, and knowing why Mr. FAA came up with the story that Flight 11 didn't hit the WTC could help prevent such "mistakes" in the future.

5) Maybe because it's the 9/11 Commission's job to work for the other 300 million people in the U.S. and not to look out for the feelings of some "grief stricken" incompetent and/or complicit FAA employee.

6) Maybe because identifying how the misinformation came out of the FAA is just the right thing to do.

Do me a favor, go to the link below and just read this chapter before posting any more unsubstantiated theories about Flight 11 and Flight 77 getting mixed up. I promise you'll understand why it's a "stretch" to think that the FAA mixed up Flight 11 and Flight 77 if you read this.

www.gpoaccess.gov...

How can you assume the FAA was "confused?"

How can you *not* is the question. The transcript shows confusion.

How many times in history have four planes been hijacked at or near the same time , at or near the same location?

Here's why it's a stretch...

1) Here's a big reason... Flight 11 hit WTC1 at 8:46 am! Everybody in the country except the guy from the FAA on the phone with NEADS knew this by 9:21 am.

Perhaps the FAA controller was watching freakin' TV like the rest of us ..and THAT led to the confusion...because he wouldn't have been dealing with a very unusual situation at work now would he! Of course if he had been watching TV he would have been up to speed on the crashes.

2) The FAA never advised NEADS that Flight 77 was even hijacked. The FAA first advised NEADS at 9:34 that Flight 77 was missing.

The controller mistakenly thought 77 was infact 11 (wishful thinking, but wrong!)

3) If the FAA would have mixed up Flight 11 and Flight 77, they would have seen that Flight 77 was WEST of Washington D.C. when they told NEADS that Flight 11 was NE of Washington D.C.

The Controller didn't know where either plane was. just "further South" remember at this point there was only one plane left --flight 77. She thought 11 was still in the air...we know it crashed ..the controller didn't, and assumed the radar signature was 11..it was 77..it was further south...AND west as well..had it been comming from Boston it would have been further East...what you read in that transcript is the FAA's best guess estimate of the whereabouts of the plane incorrectly assumed to be flight 11. GET IT?

Why is it such a stretch for you to actually look at the facts? Flight 77 was near West Virginia when the FAA told NEADS that Flight 11 was over New Jersey

Yeah hindsight is 20/20 ...at that time they didn't know where either plane was...and really there was only one still in the sky. NOW we all know it wasn't flight 11..but take youself back to 9/11/2001 as an air traffic controller.. and imagine what you would see on your screen with blips being identified..then not...planes being on radar then vanishing... this *we now* know is due some crashing and some flying off-course at low altitude, but in the tower, that day, they were just trying to make sense of it. Then you get a unidentified blip heading to Washington. Make the call Nick...Make the call now Nick!! I am sure you would have relayed that it was a hijacked flight 77 ...now wouldn't you.

You see, it all stems from confusion...and agencies within our goverment not having the ability to instantly communicate accurate information...

What if you had got the situation wrong, Nick...after being questioned extensively for days, submitted your voluntary resignation, and had to begin a new carrer as a poorly paid receptionist..would you want to also be publicized as the bonehead that skrewd-up and let Osama attack Washington?

[edit on 15-2-2007 by GwionX]

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
You did see an airplane, remember? Oh wait, look behind you. Is that the television? Hey now, is that American Idol?

Oh man, I can't wait to see Simon's face when someone doesn't sing very well.

Doesn't a beer sound good about now? If you have a beer at least Paula Abdul won't be alone, waka waka. Paula's so crazy.
So what's on after American Idol?

Wait a sec, what were we talking about? Eh, it doesn't matter anyway

can I use that as my signature?

[edit on 15-2-2007 by hoppy]

[edit on 15-2-2007 by hoppy]

Originally posted by GwionX
How can you *not* is the question. The transcript shows confusion.

How many times in history have four planes been hijacked at or near the same time , at or near the same location?

Ok, pay close attention. Apparently you didn't read the 9/11 Commission report like I asked you to...

1) At 8:46 am Flight 11 hit WTC1. At this point Flight 11 went off radar. It wasn't there to be seen.

2) At sometime after 9:00 am, Flight 77 went off radar somewhere near Kentucky. According to the FAA, it was lost, and possibly had already crashed.

3) The FAA called NEADS at 9:21 claiming the Flight 11 had not hit WTC1 and was near New Jersey, heading south towards Washington.

There could not have been "confusion" since neither Flight 11 or Flight 77 was on any radar at the time, according to the FAA. If Flight 77 was near Flight 11, I could understand using the word "confusion" to describe the situation. This goes well beyond confustion. NEADS even asked the FAA to confirm the false information, which the FAA did.

Perhaps the FAA controller was watching freakin' TV like the rest of us ..and THAT led to the confusion...because he wouldn't have been dealing with a very unusual situation at work now would he! Of course if he had been watching TV he would have been up to speed on the crashes.

Now you're making less sense than before..

The controller mistakenly thought 77 was infact 11 (wishful thinking, but wrong!)

What don't you get about this? Flight 77 was nowhere near New Jersey, nor was it anywhere east of Washington. It was a couple hundred miles due west of Washington at the time when the FAA -NOT A ATC, told NEADS that Flight 11 was heading towards D.C. I think you're confusing the FAA with ATC. They're not the same.

The Controller didn't know where either plane was. just "further South" remember at this point there was only one plane left --flight 77. She thought 11 was still in the air...we know it crashed ..the controller didn't, and assumed the radar signature was 11..it was 77..it was further south...AND west as well..had it been comming from Boston it would have been further East...what you read in that transcript is the FAA's best guess estimate of the whereabouts of the plane incorrectly assumed to be flight 11. GET IT?

Now you're just making stuff up. First, it wasn't a controller, it was the FAA who contacted NEADS. Second, the person who spoke with NEADS specifically said there was a "report" that Flight 11 didn't hit WTC1. The question is, where did this report come from? Who started the rumor that Flight 11 didn't hit WTC1?

And you're 100% wrong about the FAA "guestimating" that the flight in question was Flight 77. The FAA "guestimated" that Flight 77 had crashed somewhere near the border of Kentucky and West Virginia. I believe that the West Virginia state police even were sent looking for the crash site. And it was the Boston center of the FAA that called NEADS with the false report. To the best of my knowledge, Boston center had no idea Flight 77 was even missing at 9:21 am.

Yeah hindsight is 20/20 ...at that time they didn't know where either plane was...

Again, you're totally making stuff up. The FAA knew that Flight 11 hit WTC1 at 8:46 am. They watched it fly into the building and disappear from radar. They watched Flight 11 from the time it was on the runway in Boston until the time it hit WTC1. They knew it was hijacked. This is the plane the famous, "We have some planes" transmission initiated from. In fact, it was Flight 11 that had everybody's attention at the FAA from the moment it was hijacked. There's no reasonable explanation why the FAA would think that Flight 11 hadn't disappeared from radar at 8:46.

NOW we all know it wasn't flight 11..but take youself back to 9/11/2001 as an air traffic controller.. and imagine what you would see on your screen with blips being identified..

No, the FAA knew then that Flight 11 hit WTC1 at exactly 8:46 am.

planes being on radar then vanishing... this *we now* know is due some crashing and some flying off-course at low altitude, but in the tower, that day, they were just trying to make sense of it.

What tower are you talking about? Flight 77 was in totally different air space being tracked by totally different controllers that Flight 11. Flight 11 never left radar until it hit WTC1. Further, they saw Flight 175 come in on radar, and visually, and hit tower 2 at 9:02 am. So by 9:21 am, the FAA and every controller near NYC knew that Flight 11 and Flight 175 had hit the towers.

Try reading the transcripts and doing some research.

Then you get a unidentified blip heading to Washington. Make the call Nick...Make the call now Nick!! I am sure you would have relayed that it was a hijacked flight 77 ...now wouldn't you.

At 9:21 am there was no unidentified blip heading towards Washington according to the FAA, the 9/11 Commission, and NEADS. If there was, they would have scrambled the planes towards the blip.

This is where you're logic totally falls apart.

If the controller saw an unidentified blip, the controller would have seen it somewhere near Kentucky, and wouldn't have mistakenly said it was near New Jersey using a "guesstimate." See, if there was actually an unidentified blip on the radar screen, the FAA would have known precisely where this blip was.

In fact, the point you're trying to make actually makes your scenario even more ludicrous. If a controller saw a blip and called NEADS, the only purpose for contacting NEADS would be to make sure NEADS scrambled planes to intercept the "blip." So why then wouldn't the controller confirm the location of the "blip" rather than send fighters off in the wrong direction?

But even then, the point is moot, because there wasn't a blip, and it wasn't a controller who called NEADS. It was the FAA.

What if you had got the situation wrong, after being questioned for days, submitted your voluntary resignation, would you want to also be publicized as the bonehead that skrewd-up and let Osama attack Washington?

You can't seriously be suggesting the the 9/11 Commission decided to participate in a cover-up of the reason fighters didn't intercept Flight 77 just to protect the feelings of some screw-up at the FAA, can you?