Is religion holding us back?

I think that the people of the old days were only told what they could understand. For example, if you tell a 3 year old child not to talk to strangers, you don't go into the reasons WHY. (molestation, ransom, etc.) You just tell them "Don't do it!"
When the child is old enough to understand....say 10 yrs. old.... THEN you tell what could happen....murder, rape, etc.
So it was with the Bible. People could not conceive of space ships, ETs, telephones, computers, etc. so Jesus and other prophets didn't mention those items.
I am an abductee and ET hybrid. I go to church. I don't feel my beliefs replace the traditional beliefs....they are IN ADDITION TO THE TRADITIONAL BELIEFS.
I don't see any conflict with any traditional beliefs.
Most people agree on the concept of soul. It is only when they discuss prophets and scriptures that causes arguments.

I agree with you MA completely. I especially like the way you went about saying it, or atleast the way I understood it for myself. Without answering "Yes-Religion is Restricting our development" or "No-Religion is Helping us", you more or less singled out the problems that come about when "Philosophy becomes Theology" or more specifically when "Suggestions become Rules". I will be explaining this better as I break apart what MA has said. I'm interested in others opinions as well as MA's thoughts in peticular.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Conflicts between mutually exclusive creation myths and moral codes purported to be passed down from different deities or their prophets must always stand in the way of human evolution, until they are gone.

Moral Codes and/or Lifestyle Choices(aka-Philosophies) are the more interactive side of Human Existance like Evolution is the Automated side. These Philosophies are part of how we Humans live and interact and as long as they are understood to be "Open for Discussion and Correction" if needed they can be very helpful. However, Theologies which take on some Inherant Authority which is NOT "Open for Discussion/Correction" leads to problems. Moral Code/Creation of All Life/Defining God(s)/etc. and thier associated prophets and officials make trouble with thier "Theological Rules" which are better left as "Philisophical Ideas/Suggestions".

People on the planet would be better to care for each other equally, and more importantly, care for the planet, rather than worshipping false gods. And there is no "one true god". How can there be? There is your problem.

Here MA has pointed out a couple EXTREMELY IMPORTANT things which have been overlooked by almost all People, Religious or Otherwise. One is the Worshiping of God(s). The other is Compassion toward ALL Life. (Life including our Living Earth, for those who only consider complex forms of life as Living) Worshiping of God(s), which usually entails sacrifices of various types both material or mental, always leads to actions which go against Compassion toward others. Besides the fact that God(s), with their unimaginable power, have NO need for Worship anyway, would probably want God(s) creations to spend time giving, praising, enjoying, loving, respectings, etc. all God(s) creations don't ya think?!?! Compassion toward all life doesn't require God(s) to point out why it's a good idea. But if God(s) is BELIEVED to be a part of the program, and the God is in fact trying to help us instead of destroy us, the same Compassion toward all life would no doubt still apply!

[Edited on 19-12-2003 by mOjOm]

[Edited on 19-12-2003 by mOjOm]

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
May I ask what religions are holding back scientific research?

Things like stem cell, cloning, and other genetic research being banned on humans. The persistent challenges to Evolution being taught as science in schools. Obviously also the restrictions to education placed on students in more fundamental societies.

As far as instilling morals in humans and code of laws and so forth, I'm not saying that religion didn't have a helping hand in creating civilization as we know it (nor am I saying it would have been impossible without religion). I'm suggesting perhaps that the control that organised religious groups have over society today isn't such a good thing. I'd also argue that the percentage of atheists who are kind and lead moral lives is just as much as the percentage of religious folk who do the same. The fact that people are compassionate and caring towards other people is not due to religion, its a logical step towards civilization.

[Edited on 19-12-2003 by Kano]

Originally posted by jabb

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL

Originally posted by Kano
I'm sure this will draw a hail of attacks upon me. But I was wondering how people felt about this.

Is it possible organised religion has served its purpose, and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

It served it's purpose now it's time to move on. Religion has caused so much grief and hardship in the world. People give up good common sense to follow something they can't see touch, smell, or feel. The world isn't going to end even if Israel gets to build it's temple and Bush goes to it and declares himself God.

That is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

The world is going to end.
Bush is not the antichrist.
The only religions that have caused grief and hardship are false religions.
What has christianity ever done to cause evil in the world?
Absolutely nothing.
# you.

So kind. remember the Crusades? The Inquisition? Fun things like that really help the credibility of religion. salem witch trials?

Who wants to burn a heretic?

The time for organized religion is gone. Believe what you want, but I'll not stand by and watch as organized religion goes on to mess up peoples lives with bigotry and hatred. What it comes down to is black and while, us or them. Ridiculous. The world is shades of grey. Organized religion was all well and good when the better part of the population needed to be kept from bashing their neighbors over the head with a rock and taking their possesions. Now, we don't need it anymore. It's impeding us. Science has to struggle with every step it takes against fundementalists who claim various objectiosn to the march of progress. If your organized religon says that by altering the genetic structure fo a plant so countries won't starve, # them. If it says that being born different, believing somethign different is wrong, # them too.

DE

[Edited on 19-12-2003 by DeusEx]

Originally posted by Kano
Is it possible organised religion has served its purpose, and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

Actually, yes. I saw some figures recently that compared countries with strongly religious societies and those with strongly secular societies and in all cases religious societies lagged behind secular socieities in technology. They also lagged behind them in human rights issues and some tended to be more violent.

This is greatly compounded when there's two religions in the same area with similar populations. Then you don't get progress -- you get genocide.

America's secularity was one reason it's done so well. Turkey's secularity accounts for its economy being much better than other Muslim countries, for its human rights abuses being much smaller than other Muslim communities (though it is a very Muslim country, where most people belong to that faith) and with it having technology available to everyone that's comparable to Western technology.

Kano,
What religion is holding back scientific research?
Not the science religion is holding back, the religion.
Deep

You should be able to worship in any way you see fit. Thats what this country is based on.

Even with that, it is clear that religion is a problem. Like it was said above, good things come out of religion. You can get those good things in other places though. High morals dont have to be tied into religion. Holy wars do. Palestine and Isreal for instance. The war in afghanistan. It all comes down to religion. Terrorism, comes down to religion in most cases. These issues are almost always associated with religion.

Creationalism, vrs Darwinism. A clear problem that religion is imposing on our progress scientifically. People just simply refuse to believe factual information in the name of their religion. That carries over into there daily life too. They cant logically work problems out to the real answers because they are afraid of the implications.

What people need to see they dont. The fact is that religion exists in our culture for a reason. We cant answer everything. So there will always be room for a god. The fact that creationalism is false doesnt rule out god. It just means you have to search for him where you should. If you dont know where you should be looking, well, then you are probably very religious.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
What religion is holding back scientific research?

Well in the case of research in western nations, Christianity. At least for higher end research on genetics, stem cells etc. At a lower level, whatever religion is dominant in the region. For western countries Christianity generally again (as far as opposing aspects of science in schools). In muslim dominated countries Islam would be behind it.

Yep, it is. Good topic.

Religions, and in some case, just old traditions, have always, IMO, holded back the progress, wheter scientificly, socially, mentaly, etc etc...

(not all religions, of course - but I don't wish to name any right now)

Some religions are prisons for the minds. Pre-made system of thoughts...

Here's nice excerpt from an article posted by theBandit, not so long ago...

"Freedom of thinking leads to ever new and increasingly powerful technology. It is a well-known fact that tradition was always a roadblock to the advancement of any science, understanding of the universe, and technology, and that especially religion was always an obstacle to science itself. "Purity of tradition" and the belief in the infallibility of books that are thought to be Divinely inspired usually leads to rejection of innovative ideas and quite often to the organized killing of persons who advance such innovative ideas! Tradition cannot live on "as is" when innovation shows new ways that prove to be more useful. Worse yet, if such innovation threatens to free the thinking of people from the dominance of non-creative leeches of the status quo. That's the reason why these traditionalists who typically lack creativity are almost always in the forefront of hostility towards progress. Naturally they hate anything that could threaten their undeserved positions of power! If you want to develop your magickal skills to a maximum, you will do well to get rid of the straitjacket that traditions and the butchers of human freedom have imposed on you!"

Imzadi,

what do the aliens say about religion and god or have you addressed this here already (I haven't seen it if you have)?

Well in the case of research in western nations, Christianity. At least for higher end research on genetics, stem cells etc. At a lower level, whatever religion is dominant in the region. For western countries Christianity generally again (as far as opposing aspects of science in schools). In muslim dominated countries Islam would be behind it.

Kano,

So in retrospect, its not religion that is holding us back, but "certain religions" that are holding us back, am I right, or am I wrong?

Deep

religion is nonsense really

if there's a God and a Creator...the God created everything! But people seperate the message according to their skin colour

like there's a different God according to where youre born and where you come from and what you look like,,like there are a few Gods creating for the different groups of people..Theres only one God, one Creator, for all the people on earth..that was the original idea!!!

ahh..one God, one planet, one earth, one people

ONE LOVE!!!

if there's a God and a Creator...the God created everything! But people seperate the message according to their skin colour

Skin colour,
can you elaborate some more proof on this claim?

like there's a different God according to where youre born and where you come from and what you look like,,like there are a few Gods creating for the different groups of people..Theres only one God, one Creator, for all the people on earth..that was the original idea!!!

But I agree with this.
This is what my religion beleives, all are one in the eyes of God, no matter, caste, creed, colour, sex.

We are all his creations, this whole universe is his creation.

Deep

Not �religions� but predominantly those with fixed doctrine formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by churches.
This proclamation is only reason of church existence and omnipotence of their god. That doctrine will be defended for any price. Do you remember Inquisition? Do you remember what means word �heresy�?

1 a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

It means that every progress should be avoided if is in contrary to church teachings.

Example:Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith a.k.a. Holy Inquisition (if you are Roman Catholic check here)

II.1. The Old Testament people of Israel were the prototype of the peoples of God-the New Testament Church of Christ.
The redemptive feat of Christ the Savior brought the Church into being as the new humanity, the spiritual posterity of the forefather Abraham.
By His Blood Christ �has redeemed us to God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation� (Re . 5:9).
The Church by her very nature is universal and therefore supranational.
In the Church �there is no distinction between Jew and Greek� (Rom. 10:12).
Just as God is not the God of the Jews alone but also of the Gentiles (Rom. 3:29), so the Church does not divide people on either national or class grounds: in her �there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all� (Col. 3:11).

Being universal by nature, the Church is at the same time an organism, one body (I Cor. 12:12).

She is the one community of the children of God, �a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people... which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God� (1 Pet. 2:9- 10).

The unity of these new people is secured not by its ethnic, cultural or linguistic community, but by their common faith in Christ and Baptism.
The new people of God �have no continuing city here, but seek one to come� (Heb. 13:14).
The spiritual homeland-of all Christians is not earthly Jerusalem, but the Jerusalem �which is above� (Gal. 4:26).

The Gospel of Christ is preached not in the sacred language understandable to one people, but in all tongues (Acts. 2:3-11).

The Gospel is not preached for one chosen people to preserve the true faith, but so that �at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father, (Phil. 2:10-11).


Religion is not holding anyone back!
If anything, It is MAN that decides what is good or bad for fullfilement of his own self gratification..
helen...

The fairy tales of Religion is holding Mankind back.

Example: I'm too afraid to think on my own, God might not love me if i did that

or

God said i can't question him because that would include using my brain, and thats against my religion

or

If i dare think outside what my church believes, i'll be damned to hell ...

So yes, i would agree with the fact that Religion is holding us back. [note] I said Religion, not God. I don't believe God likes religion any more than i do, and personally i despise it.

Thats all

Hi Saphire....
What fairy tales are those?

the words of the Apostle: "I...beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
with all lowliness and meekness,
with long-suffering,
forbearing one another in love;
endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body,
and one Spirit,
even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord,
one faith,
one baptism,
one God and Father of all,
who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. IV:6).

As St. Paul said, "...stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Like the early Christians, religious practices are based on Old Testament sources, fulfilled in Christ.
These include: synagogue worship; ceremonial meals (like the Last Supper); and the ritual of the Temple. Early Christian worship,
as described in Revelation chapters 4 & 5, includes vestments, incense, bowing down in prayer, etc.

Icon and idol are both Greek words - with very different meanings. An idol is literally an image of God that is "dreamed up" by human beings.
By contrast, the Bible calls Christ Himself the "icon" or "image" of God seven times (example, Colossians 1:15).


The teachings of the Church are derived from two sources: Holy Scripture, and Sacred Tradition,
within which the Scriptures came to be,
and within which they are interpreted.

As written in the Gospel of St. John, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world could not contain the books that should be written" (21:20).
Much teaching transmitted orally by the Apostles has come down to us in Sacred Tradition.

A Liturgy is a service done by a liturgist (leitourgos) - in other words, a priest who leads his people in formal, "liturgical" worship.
In New Testament Greek, Christ and St. Paul are each referred to as a "leitourgos" (Hebrews 8:1-2 & Romans 15:16). Our Liturgy is the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.


Ever since New Testament times, most of our priests have had the choice to marry (See Titus 1:5-6).
Priest is just a shortened form of the Greek word "Presbyter," meaning "Elder.
" We call them "father"
as a natural term of respect for an elder in the Christian family (See 1 Corinthians 4:15-16).

www.goannunciation.org...



which is the "pillar and the ground of truth" (I Timothy 3:15), has fully and without any adulteration retained the doctrine taught by Christ the Savior to His disciples."

Man made or .....founded by Jesus Christ Himself?
helen...

Originally posted by helen670
Hi Saphire....
What fairy tales are those?

the words of the Apostle: "I...beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
with all lowliness and meekness,
with long-suffering,
forbearing one another in love;
endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body,
and one Spirit,
even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord,
one faith,
one baptism,
one God and Father of all,
who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. IV:6).

Man made or .....founded by Jesus Christ Himself?
helen...

Helen, i think it would be the old wives tales Jesus told us to avoid to begin with, which are many of the silly doctrines churches use to make their congregations feel guilt ridden with the need to give more money to appease God with.

I've been there, done that, and yes i've studied it as well. I decided ages ago that rather than never question anything i was told, to question everything i was told. And guess what? I learned something, Religious people really are 'fallible' and God is much cooler and more real to me than i've been previously led to believe. I've never been judged by God, only Man does that. As for the credibility of the Bible, i'd give it a 50% success rate. If you honestly believe it's all true then you really should be wearing a napkin over your head, and never ever cut your hair, its unbecoming of a woman, and dont wear jewelry, you may come across as a prostitute. Oh yes, and don't get a job because you have children and thats just feminist.

Ok thats all

There is more evidence for the existance of UFO's than there is for the existance of God.
God has never been caught on radar, seen by passengers of an airliner, multiple witness' of cities and so on.
Religion must evolve to survive. Any species that fails to adapt in a dynamic environment will inevitably render itself extinct.

Originally posted by DSR
There is more evidence for the existance of UFO's than there is for the existance of God.
God has never been caught on radar, seen by passengers of an airliner, multiple witness' of cities and so on.
Religion must evolve to survive. Any species that fails to adapt in a dynamic environment will inevitably render itself extinct.

DSR but we are 'gods'. The mind is a powerful thing which science still hasn't yet fully been able to explain.