Is religion holding us back?

I'm sure this will draw a hail of attacks upon me. But I was wondering how people felt about this.

Is it possible organised religion has served its purpose, and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

It seems quite often that organised religion manages to find some way of interfering with cultural and scientific progress. Now I'm not degrading the good aspects of organised religions, the goodwill and so forth, but surely its possible to continue to be nice, and thankful to whatever creator you believe in, without these establishments causing such problems.

A few examples of the type of thing I mean are:

Obviously, faith-inspired violence. God says xxxx must die. Obviously Muslim terrorists, bombs at abortion clinics, all fall into this category.

Another one, is the brake that religion sometimes applies to scientific endeavours. A topical example of this is the idea of including creationism in science classes, or the banning of evolution.
Wasn't there also a state in the US that tried (succeeded?) to pass a law to the effect that the value of Pi was 3. Because of some reason or another related to the bible.
If we go further back we find Galileo being forced by the Inquisition to renounce his heliocentric copernican views and agree that the Earth was the center of the Universe.

I'm curious as to others views on this, and the idea that perhaps a less formal view of religion should be the future for mankind. Let everyone praise their own god in their own way.

I don't care if people don't agree with the bible, but I do get angry when they try to get rid of it completely, lately it seems everyone is determined to banish the bible from America. America means freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

I thought that we already had a system where eveyone could praise who they wanted in their own way?

The problem as I see it is the attack on Christianity around the world particularily in Western Countries.

If someone wants to opt out of organized religion they can do it in first world countries and not fear retribution.

What we really need to do is bring this system to the REST OF THE WORLD.

Funny but in all the debate around here about Iraq, none of the left of centre crowd picked up on this issue and the importance of the Americans influence in Iraq for allowing religious tolerance?

Originally posted by Kano

I'm curious as to others views on this, and the idea that perhaps a less formal view of religion should be the future for mankind. Let everyone praise their own god in their own way.

You're not going to get beat up by me. I have a spiritual belief. I don't have an organized religion. I think more people have been slaughtered, starved, oppressed, left in the darkness of ignorance, and in general pissed on by organized religion than any other driving force in the history of mankind....with the exception of the almight dollar (which is usually the root driving force behind the organized religion forces).

BUT, you're not insinuating that if I am my neighbors want to have an organization known as a church, mosque, synagogue, or domino hall in which we come for fellowship and common belief sharing that we shouldn't be able to, are you?

See the sticky wicket of this? If we could just turn the Vatican into a great big museum and library, and then shut the doors of every protestant denomination headquarters, and do away with fatwahs...we'd have her made wouldn't we?

You say that religion should be less formal because of the things it produces (even though there are also good aspects to it). That those things happen, isn't that a reason to say that humans really believe that something happened, instead of saying that it should be less formal because it does some wrong things?

By saying that it should be less formal you say that they should take religion more lightly... what however if what happened musn't be taken lightly... and that it made such an impact back then... that people even now believe it is true...

Isn't it better to look at the reason why people believe it instead of saying it should be less formal because it isn't always just as easy.

What if the message is more important then the disadvantages... and that therefore people still believe... and hundreds of thousands pages were written...

Originally posted by Kano
I'm sure this will draw a hail of attacks upon me. But I was wondering how people felt about this.

Is it possible organised religion has served its purpose, and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

It served it's purpose now it's time to move on. Religion has caused so much grief and hardship in the world. People give up good common sense to follow something they can't see touch, smell, or feel. The world isn't going to end even if Israel gets to build it's temple and Bush goes to it and declares himself God.

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL

Originally posted by Kano
I'm sure this will draw a hail of attacks upon me. But I was wondering how people felt about this.

Is it possible organised religion has served its purpose, and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

It served it's purpose now it's time to move on. Religion has caused so much grief and hardship in the world. People give up good common sense to follow something they can't see touch, smell, or feel. The world isn't going to end even if Israel gets to build it's temple and Bush goes to it and declares himself God.

That is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

The world is going to end.
Bush is not the antichrist.
The only religions that have caused grief and hardship are false religions.
What has christianity ever done to cause evil in the world?
Absolutely nothing.
# you.

Crusades, abortion clinic bombings, any of this mean anything to you jabb?

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy
America means freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

i very much agree with you!

but what about the good that comes from religion? religion sometimes brings people together. if follwed correctly teaches tollerance.
i have a friend who is muslim and he informed me that these terrorist's are not true musslims because real muslims wouldnt harm someone else. this applies to anybody who uses force to enforce their own religion.

Yes, religion holds us back on many fronts. From a global stand point is is a major obsticle in the way of world peace (Isreal, Islamic Jihad etc..). On the medical front it is constantly impeding research that could lead to breakthroughs and save lives (Stem cell research, Cloning etc...). It also limits peoples ability to reason. How many times have you heard some justify something because it's "God's" way? Alot I bet.

The only religions that have caused grief and hardship are false religions.

So what's the true religion then? It can't be Christianity or Islam or Judism or Hindu. What's that leave? Buddahism and the Heavens Gate cult?

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy
America means freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

i very much agree with you!

Actually, not to sound nit-picky or anything, but Freedom OF Religion would also include Freedom FROM Religion at the same time. Meaning the same equallity of Religious Freedom would be for those who choose NO Religion as well as those who choose Religion regardless of which one they choose.

I know that may have been the intended meaning but I just thought I'd throw that in there to help clearify. Just saying "Freedom of Religion" could be misunderstood to mean that your free to choose which ever religion you want as long as you do infact choose one. You should also be allowed to Not Choose any of them as well for True Freedom.

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy
I don't care if people don't agree with the bible, but I do get angry when they try to get rid of it completely, lately it seems everyone is determined to banish the bible from America.

I agree that no one should try to "get rid" of the bible, but I totally disagree with the statement:

America means freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

Religion or a lack therof is a right.
Everyone should be able to worship in their own way or take their chances and not worship at all.

Geez, jabb. Tells us how you REALLY feel. Relax.

Peace,
BG

Indeed, stem cells and genetic research seems to be another are where religious groups seem to be holding back what could be the source of many great breakthroughs and the possible cures to our great illnesses.

Q: Does Roddenberry's "utopian" vision bother anyone?

The mythos of Star Trek is pro-science, pro-art, OVERTLY anti-religion, and mostly anti any form of God worship (as far as the Federation goes).

(And anti-capitalist, but let's leave that out for now)

It's humanism to the extreme, is it not? Does anyone that actually aspires to THAT vision of a non-apocolyptic future...believe there is ROOM for a GOD myth/belief/faith in the future as well?

Or basically, does the show not bother you on some level? Assuming the Secular War on Religion (we keep hearing about) is real... the mythos of Star Trek is one where SECULARISTS win!!!

Ban Star Trek? Where's the O'Reilly boycott wesite?

Religion doesn't need to be done away with, it just needs to be taken out of the government and any other position of power, when that power is over others of varying beliefs.

Personal faith is not a bad thing and it brings peace and hope to many different people throughout the world. We all have faith in something that others may not understand. Faith in something greater than us, even if it can't be proven, is what inspires many people to try and share the love that they feel with others less fortunate.

There will always be extremists and fanatics. The anti-abortion fanatics that killed the doctors and bombed the clinics, do not represent the majority of pro-life supporters. The extremist Muslims that support terrorism, do not represent the majority of Muslims. The atheists that bombed the Christian churches in the south, do not represent the majority of atheists. The Witch covens that sacrifice humans, do not represent all Witches, etc., etc. We need to be careful not to stereotype anyone who follow a particular religion, by the actions of someone else claiming that same religion.
No matter how much one wants to blame religion for the crimes committed against humanity, it is people that are personally accountable for their actions not their religion. This is what "free will" is supposed to be about. Even if a church pastor tells his congregation that abortion is murder, so it is OK with God if they kill the doctors that perform them, it is their decision to believe and act on his declaration. Each of us are responsible for the choices we make and the lives we choose to lead.
If people hadn't chosen to obey church's orders to begin the Spanish Inquisition, it never would have happened. If the people of Salem hadn't followed their self-serving religious leaders, they wouldn't have burned innocent women at the stake, for being witches.

Religion is dangerous when those in power of a town, state, or country, use it to control or oppress anyone who doesn't follow the same religious beliefs. Religion has NO place in government of any kind. If a government is to be successful it must be objective. It cannot allow religious beliefs to sway it's decisions. I would not want a Christian government any more than an Atheist government. A government must remain unbiased if people are to receive equal representation within it.

Conflicts between mutually exclusive creation myths and moral codes purported to be passed passed down from different deities or their prophets must always stand in the way of human evolution, until they are gone.

People on the planet would be better to care for each other equally, and more importantly, care for the planet, rather than worshipping false gods. And there is no "one true god". How can there be? There is your problem.

Hi Kano.....
Quote/Is it possible organised religion has served its purpose, and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

Organized religion?
When you say ''organized'' it's seems like it is a bad thing, but not only in the way it is wriiten and said, but the fact that many other people seem to be on that same level......
Why is ''organization'' a BAD thing?
We have organization in our lives everyday...from the moment we are born till death arrives!
We need organization in order to survive......to survive as a whole unit based on truth and to function as a whole group.....without a system based on truth and functioning as a whole everything will collapse......the world will destroy itself in no time!

Imagine if there was code of ethics .....no laws ,what would happen to mankind?

When ''Organized religion'', as many seem to put it abruptly, it seems that no one wants to have a part of it!
Why?
Is it because it is to much for them to understand?
Or is it because their life is so good that any idea based on the truth will take away their comfortable life as they know it!

Organization began ...quote/
The hierarchy was established by the Lord Jesus Christ. He �gave some, apostles; and some,
prophets; and some, evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints,

for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ; till we all come in the unity of
the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the
stature of the fullness of Christ� (Eph. 4:11-13).

The Lord Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry chose from among His followers twelve
disciples � the Apostles (those �sent forth�) � giving to them special spiritual gifts and a special
authority.
Appearing to them after His Resurrection, He said to them,
�As My Father hath
sent Me, even so send I you.
And when He had said this,
He breathed on them, and with unto
them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit.
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and
whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained� (John 20:21-23).
This He did in order that they may do as He had done!



Presbyters (priests).

Presbyters (literally �elders�) were both in Apostolic times and in all subsequent times �

and are today � the second degree of the hierarchy. The Apostles Paul and Barnabas, as the
book of Acts relates, going through Lystra, Antioch and Iconium, ordained presbyters in each

Church (Acts 14:23). For the resolution of the question about circumcision, an embassy was sent
to Jerusalem, to the Apostles and the presbyters at Jerusalem. (Acts 15:2).
At the Council of the
Apostles, the presbyters occupy a place together with the Apostles (Acts 15:6).

From the above you will notice that there has always been succesors and a heirachy in need for the teachings of Jesus Christ ......
In the Apostolic writings the two names of �bishop� and �presbyter� are not always distinguished.

Thus, according to the book of Acts the Apostle Paul called to himself in Miletus the

�presbyters of the Church� from Ephesus (Acts 20:17), and instructing them he said, �Take heed
therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops

(overseers), to feed the Church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood� (Acts20:28)

�The elders (presbyters) which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness

of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed feed the
flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly;

not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; neither as being lords over God�s heritage, but being
examples to the flock� (1 Peter 5:1-3)

�Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God-
whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation (life)� (Hebrews 13:7).

�Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your
souls, as that they must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief for that is
unprofitable for you� (Hebrews 13:17).

Whether one believes or accepts it or not,
organization is needed for a society to function!

Has religion....QUOTE// ''served it's purpose'', and is now more of a hindrance to humankind?

Why would one even ask such a question!
To what does one mean by ''served it's purpose'' mean?
An end to what one can know ?
A final that has reached it's limit?
An end to a resolution?

Or is it because we have become so determined that we are gods and are able to distinguish and think ourselves capable of knowing everything ,
that we pay no attention to what will befall us and lead man to his own destruction !

Hinderence....why would religion be a hinderence?

Religion is the WRONG word used to describe Christianity!!!
Christianity is about God who took flesh and became man.........
Christ Jesus, though He was in the form of God,did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.(Philippians 2:6-11)

bELOW IS TAKEN FROM
//// www.stvladimirs.ca...


Perhaps you ask,
Why?
Those who are experienced answer,
external hindrance and opposition meet only the person who has not yielded his own will to God: and for God an obstacle is unthinkable.

A truly unselfish act is not mine, but God's.
It cannot be obstructed.
Only for my own plans, my own wishes-to study,
to work,
to rest,
eat, or do a service to my fellowman--can some external circumstance "get in the way," and then I am grieved.

But for the person who has found the narrow way that leads to life,
that is to God,
there is only one conceivable hindrance,
and that is his own,
sinful will.
If he now wishes to do something but is not permitted to carry it out,
how can he grieve?
For the rest he is not making any plans (James 4:13-16).

But this is another of the saints' secrets.

Do not be deceived.
A Christian ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked (I John 2:6) who did not seek his own will (John 5:30),
but, was born on straw,
fasted forty days,
watched in prayer long nights through,
healed the sick,
drove out evil spirits,
had no place to lay his head,
and who finally let himself be spat upon,
scourged and crucified.

Think how far you are from that.
Ask yourself continually anew: Have I watched in prayer a single night?
Have I fasted a single day?
Have I driven out a single evil spirit?
Have I unresistingly let myself be insulted and beaten? Have I truly crucified the flesh (Galatians 5:24), and not sought my own will?

Keep all this freshly in mind.

For what is denying oneself?
He who truly denies himself does not ask, Am I happy? or, Shall I be satisfied?
All such questions fall away from you if you truly deny yourself, for by so doing you have also given up your will for either earthly or heavenly happiness.

This obstinate will to personal happiness is the cause of unrest and division in your soul. Give it up and work against it: the rest will be given you without effort.

Taken from
Chapter Seven: ON THE TRANSFER OF LOVE FROM THE SELF TO CHRIST

helen.......

I respect each ones thought and opinions,as for me I'm a believer in Christ,I've always had that.He is always with us,If anything this has been good,it begs..what do we believe? Where does our faith stand?I'm thankful for His strength-peace unto you all.

May I ask what religions are holding back scientific research?

Relgion goes beyond reason and can not be defined by words, only through thoughts and actions if its followers.

Religion is the biggest influence in society, in more bad ways than good.

Clashes between religion occur on a day to day bases.

But this all does not matter anyways,
2012


I think a more rational view has to be taken on religious tolerance,
I think in some ways religion holds back our own thought and our ability to move on,
Just look at the number of people on this forum who qoute the bible just to answer simple everyday questions

Deep