Barack Obama is he a member ?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Who knows anything about Barak? I certainly don't..They (media and democrats) are building this guy up like he is some kind of "savior," and I don't even know what policies this dude is a proponent of...

Obama is a pretty moderate person. When he first got to the Senate his mentor was.....Joe Lieberman. Heh. A lot of his supporters say how he was against Iraq from the beginning but he didn't have to put his name to anything or trust what he was getting was really lies or not like some other people and I follow Obama off and on and haven't seen him try to do anything to get out of Iraq. He recently did start a bill I believe but it was after he declared for his run so it just seems so fake to me. I agree that he's all hype and I think 2004 proved to us though that the front runner isn't necessarily going to be the candidate. In 2003 Howard Dean was the front runner and John Kerry wasn't even a formal candidate and a nobody but yet Kerry ended up beating Dean in various primary's. On edit I have not heard if Obama is a part of any type of organization or not. I'm sure it would be out there by now if he was.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by sweftl337
Yes, he is a member of the Martinist order and also a Mason of another irregular lodge. He's completely bought and in the pockets of the Illuminati.

If that's true, then Barack Obama would be another phony "Rosicrucian"(AMORC/Martinist Order) politician from the Illuminati of the Black Lodge.

Which wouldn't be surprising.

And when I say "Black Lodge", I am NOT referring to Prince Hall Lodges.

Meaning that: There isn't really any reason that a Prince Hall Mason couldn't be a member of the Great White Lodge.

Originally posted by Frank Black
Ok so you are saying that meetings are public?

I really couldn't care less about their "meetings" or "handshakes." They are not a "secret" society. Their beliefs have been written about extensively... Try going to an American Legion meeting without being a member... Try.Please, do... Are they a "secret" society as well?

[edit on 7-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

...besides, if Obama was a member of a "secret society", we'd hardly know about it.
That's the beauty of a secret society...it's a secret.


...what do you mean by "black lodge"?

curious about this black lodge statement myself. Please explain.

*edit*

[edit on 7-3-2007 by Tamahu]

Yeah, I really want to know what that is.
I mean, y'know, without this becoming another attack on the Masons.
Jeepers, no matter how much good the Masons do, there's always someone picking on them, saying how we're just trying to take over the world or something.
But I digress, so...if Obama is a member of a "black lodge", what does that mean exactly?

Here are some definitions:

The Other Side of the Illuminati


The terms "White Lodge" and "Black Lodge" are terms that have appeared in Esoteric writings within the last hundred years or so.

Said terms are utilized to describe the actual battle that has existed between the Dark Side and the Sons of Light ever since the fall of Adam and Eve.

Beware of the "New Age" channelling groups from the Black Lodge who claim to be of the Universal White Lodge...

Interesting.
But still, that doesn't clear up the question.
Is he, or is he not?
(a member of a secret society)

And if so, which one?
And what proof do we have?

Perhaps sweftl337 can answer some of those questions...

Originally posted by sweftl337
Yes, he is a member of the Martinist order and also a Mason of another irregular lodge. He's completely bought and in the pockets of the Illuminati.

Heh, good point.
So how about it sweftl337, you seem to (operative term) be in the know.
Where's this info siphoning in from?
Illuminati disinformation machine?
Channeled from inter-dimensional space aliens from the future?
The satellite-only broadcast channel 3.2 that can only be listened to and heard while wearing your grandmother's bloomers and a tin-foil hat?
(I'm not picking on you, I promise. I'm just a smart-ass by nature.)

OK let me rephrase::
Freemasonry is not a secret society but a society with secrets. Dark ones at that........

[edit on 3/8/2007 by Frank Black]

Originally posted by Frank Black
OK let me rephrase::
Freemasonry is not a secret society but a society with secrets. Dark ones at that........

Really?

Name some. Cite some references too, please. Not just blanket statements and "I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend..."

You see it seems that the only facts that are being posted here of late are by the . . . uhm . . . Freemasons and those who are opposed to Freemasonry really can't give factual evidence WHY. They rely on wild speculation and outright slander then they resort to ad hominem attacks and VERY Un-Christian posts.

Those are getting REALLY old. Indeed, they are.

As your replies are getting really old Appak. Lets talk about the Hiram Abiff ritual. Were a member is put acting out being put to death. Then rises from the grave. A mockery of Jesus after he rises from the grave 3 days later. And lets talk about that password you get after the Hiram Abiff ritual and it's meaning. Opps we can't have a honest debate because you are sworn to keep it hush hush.

According to that line of thinking^^^, one could say that the Death and Resurrection of Jesus, is a mockery of the Death and Resurrection of Ausar.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
As your replies are getting really old Appak.

Don't read them then. Do like that other really astute "scholar" on the list. Put me on "ignore" because you don't like what I say.

I couldn't possibly care less...not even if I actually put some effort into it.

Lets talk about the Hiram Abiff ritual.

We call that "The LEGEND of the Temple" (note the word "Legend")

Were a member

One can only suppose you mean "Where" and not "Were" but anyway...

is put acting out being put to death. Then rises from the grave. A mockery of Jesus after he rises from the grave 3 days later.

Hmmm. You say "...a member is acting out being put to death" then "rises from the grave"

Read what is ACTUALLY said in the LEGEND.

Hiram's BODY is raised from it's make-shift grave and taken to the Temple for (quote from the ritual here....get ready...) "a more decent interment"

Hmmm...HIRAM, unlike Jesus, was STILL DEAD ! ! ! ! He NEVER "rose from the dead" You can't even read exposures of the ritual, can you?

They RE-BURIED his dead BODY for crying out loud.

And lets talk about that password you get after the Hiram Abiff ritual and it's meaning. Opps we can't have a honest debate because you are sworn to keep it hush hush.

Actually the password of a Master Mason is given LONG before the Legend of the Temple. And as far as 'the' word. Here's something for you to chew on.

The "Word" of a Master Mason that *I* received when I was initiated is VASTLY different from "the Word" that Trinityman received. (He, having been made a Mason in Great Britain, where "the" Masonic ritual is VERY different from the various "Rituals" here in the States)

On top of that, if there's anyone on the list who's from a Lodge in Ireland, "the Word" HE received is different from the words that T-man and I received.

You see....Andy...."the" Ritual of Freemasonry differs (sometimes vastly) from region to region. In the U.S. it varies from STATE to STATE! WOW! There's NOT a "Word" There is not "a Ritual" There are "Words" there are "Rituals"

Think you know 'em all? You don't. But even if you did..so what? Doesn't hurt us at all and doesn't benefit you at all.

I know the passwords of the Knights of Pythias AND of the Order of the Amaranth. Won't even get me a cup of coffee.

Your posts are really sad Andy because you have no real clue what you're talking about. And you display this more and more as you continue your spread of hatred. Too bad for you.

But you're funny. I do like you. Honestly. This site would be pretty boring if guys like you didn't cruise in from time to time to keep things interesting.


[edit on 8-3-2007 by Appak]

Originally posted by Tamahu
According to that line of thinking^^^, one could say that the Death and Resurrection of Jesus, is a mockery of the Death and Resurrection of Ausar.

Oh c'mon Tamahu! Andy knows what he's been told to think...don't confuse him with actual facts.

He may not sleep well tonight!

I don't want to ignore you. I like to read the spin. Barack Obama sound all right on the t.v. but if he is indeed a member I won't vote for him. The reason is below. And it doesn't sound like I'am far off. I just hopw Barack Obama isn't a member

www.emfj.org...

The candidate represents Hiram Abif in ritual
The candidate is caused to represent a character named Hiram Abif. Even though there is no historical evidence to back up any part of the "drama" that is about to unfold, it is explained to the candidate, or initiate, that Grand Master Hiram Abif was the Grand Architect at the building of King Solomon’s Temple. Supposedly, Hiram knows some sort of a secret which, by its mere possession, a person would be allowed to pass himself off as a Master Mason, or journeyman builder, if you will, thus allowing him to travel and work in foreign countries, and to receive Masters’ wages.

It had been promised to the workmen on the temple that upon its completion, those who were found worthy would receive the secrets, but three of the Fellow Crafts got a little over anxious and entered into a pact of extorting the secrets which Hiram supposedly held. So, one day Hiram is confronted by these ruffians, demanding the secrets from him. He refuses their demands, and they kill him.

Death
It is at this point that the candidate, portraying Hiram Abif, experiences part I of the symbolism of baptism - Death.

At midnight, or low-twelve, under the cover of darkness, they remove his body from the temple grounds and take it to the brow of a hill where a grave had already been dug for the purpose, and bury him.

Burial
It is at this point that the candidate, portraying Hiram Abif, experiences part II of the symbolism of baptism - Burial.

The ruffians attempt to flee the country, but they are discovered by three Fellow Crafts who had been sent out in search of them. They are returned to the temple and brought before King Solomon, who is portrayed by the Worshipful Master. They confess their guilt, and are summarily executed.

A new search is launched to find the remains of Hiram Abif. These same three Fellow Crafts return to the brow of the hill where they had come across the ruffians, and there they discover what appears to be a newly made grave. They dig down and find a body. Owing to the high state of decomposition, the body cannot easily be recognized, but the Fellow Crafts remove the jewel from around its neck and carry it back to King Solomon, who identifies it as being the jewel of Grand Master Hiram Abif.

King Solomon then leads a procession to the gravesite, presumably for the purpose of removing the body from the grave and returning it to the temple for more decent interment. Further, he advises the workmen that even though the Master’s Word, which it had been promised they would eventually receive, has now been lost, he will devise a substitute word that will do just fine until the real word is found again.

In a lecture that the candidate is to hear later on, after the conclusion of the Hiramic Legend, he is told that the body of Hiram was indeed removed from the temporary grave and returned to the temple, where it was buried in due form. But that is not what transpires at the gravesite.

Rather, King Solomon orders the Senior Grand Warden (Hiram, king of Tyre) to raise the body by the grip of an Entered Apprentice. The Senior Grand Warden applies that grip to the cadaver, but owing to the high state of decomposition, the skin slips from the flesh, and the body cannot be raised. King Solomon then orders him to apply the grip of a Fellow Craft. He does so - first, with the Pass Grip of a Fellow Craft, and then with the Real Grip of a Fellow Craft - and for the same reasons as before, neither of those grips is strong enough. King Solomon asks, "What shall we do?". And the Senior Grand Warden suggests, "Let us pray.".

The Chaplain then leads all those present in a prayer which concludes with,

"Yet, O Lord, have compassion on the children of Thy creation; administer them comfort in time of trouble, and save them with an everlasting salvation."
(Nevada ritual, p. 137)

Resurrection
After praying for the salvation of the fallen martyr, King Solomon states how timely the prayer is, and declares that the body will be raised. After determining a substitute word to replace that which was supposedly lost upon the death of Grand Master Hiram Abif, King Solomon informs the craftsmen that the substitute word will be the first word uttered after the body is raised. The Worshipful Master, who up to this time has been portraying King Solomon, then reaches down and grasps the hand of the candidate, who up to this time has supposedly been portraying Hiram Abif, with the real grip of a Master Mason, or lion’s paw. And by the real grip of a Master Mason, the candidate is raised

"from a dead level to a living perpendicular".
(Officers’ Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation - Nevada, p. 96) (Note: This is not the terminology that is used during the legend, but I bring this phrase to your attention because you will see it a little later on.)

As the candidate is "raised", he and the Worshipful Master assume the position known as the five points of fellowship; and while in that position, which is foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back, and cheek to cheek, or mouth to ear, the Worshipful Master whispers the words, "Mah-Ha-Bone" into the ear of the candidate, "Mah-Ha-Bone" being what is called the substitute for the Master’s Word.

And it is at this point, know as "raising", that the candidate symbolically experiences the third and final stage of the symbolism of baptism - Resurrection.

With the exception of explaining to the candidate what the word, "Mah-Ha-Bone" means - "What, the Builder"; and instructing him in the proper use of the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress, this pretty much concludes the second section of the degree.

You know doubt have noticed by now that there is no re-interment. No body is returned to the temple for the purpose of burying it in due form, because at this point, there is no body. The purpose of the Hiramic Legend is NOT the re-enactment of some nonsensical fairy tale with a moral attached to it, much like an Aesop’s Fable. The REAL intended purpose of the entire staged production, this "allegory illustrated by symbols", is just exactly what is symbolized - the death, burial, and resurrection of the candidate, that symbolism being exactly the same as is done by immersion in the baptismal font of a Christian church.

The candidate, "representing" Hiram Abif, has not been initiated into a fraternity. Rather, the candidate, representing no one but himself, has been baptized into "the religious faith of Freemasonry". (Remember that phrase. You will be encountering it again.)

Why do those who profess to be Christians not realize what it is that is happening to them at the time? The explanation is quite simple:

Allegory - "a long and complicated story with an underlying meaning different from the surface meaning of the story itself."

Generally, I would say that if an individual has had no discernment up to this point that he is involved in a religion, after undergoing the first degree, the second degree, and the first portion of the third degree, the chances are better than not that it isn’t going to happen during the "raising", or resurrection.

But even if a Christian does realize what it is that is happening, think of his circumstances at the time. Here he is, lying on the floor, surrounded by all these men. At this point, his blindfold has already been removed, and what is he confronted with? Maybe Mr. Johnson, his boss at work, is standing there. Maybe his very best friend is looking down at him. Maybe he is looking at his dad, his grand-dad, his uncle, his brother, standing over him. It would take a tremendous amount of courage on his part to pick himself up off the floor, say to those present, "Hold on, I now realize what is happening here, and because I am a Christian, I will have no part in it"; and then just walk out of the lodge room, leave the premises, and never look back - never come back again. Chances are better than not, you will not see or hear of something like that happening.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I don't want to ignore you. I like to read the spin. Barack Obama sound all right on the t.v. but if he is indeed a member I won't vote for him. The reason is below. And it doesn't sound like I'am far off. I just hopw Barack Obama isn't a member

I hope he isn't either. Honestly. And I would NOT vote for him one way or another. But it has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

As for the remainder of your post, I guess quoting from ritual isn't good enough for you Andy. You've made up (and closed) your mind. You know what you think and I can't change it. Neither can any of us who are ACTUALLY Masons and would ACTUALLY know the truth about Freemasonry. Hiram (who NEVER existed except in Masonic legend) was murdered, buried, raised from the grave (in a state of putrification which YOUR post noted) and taken to the Temple for RE-Burial. The ceremony doesn't SHOW a re-burial because it doesn't have diddly to do with the symbolism being taught which you and other NON-Masons cannot understand because you're . . . well . . . you're NOT Masons.

I'm thankful for that by the way Andy. And I DO NOT mean that in a derogatory way at all. As I said, you've made up your mind and won't be swayed and we don't really mind...and we don't want you to join anyway.

Have fun with your closed-minded view of something you do not comprehend. You are far from alone. (Note my signature line. That really says it all)

PTL!


[edit on 8-3-2007 by Appak]

I'am not angry with any of you masons. I wouldn't hit the ignore button on any of you. I want to hear what you have to day. Anyway before we get into trouble for changing the subject just a shay. Barack seems all right and has a few good ideas he may be all right.