My O'hare UFO FOIA request

No kiddin'? I'm actually about 30 min. or so myself....northwest, near Canton. Hit me up if you DO need access to a DAT player, I'd be glad to help.

p.s...I could dub DAT to cd as well.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by eyes2see]

No, southwest in Fayette County. I'm gonna try to call her back on Thursday. I'm still not sure what to say. But I have time to figure it out. I'm not the best speaker on the phone. I get anxiety sometimes.

For anyone wondering how to file a FOIA request, here is exactly how to go about it.
www.osec.doc.gov...

The fee, although steep, seems par for the course.

Originally posted by classified material
I just tried calling the phone number they gave me if I had any questions or concerns. I got a ladies answering machine saying she was out of the office and would return on Thursday Feb. 15. So I'll try her back on Thursday.

In the mean time, could you folks help me out with suggestions as to what exactly I should say to her? I'd really appreciate it. Of course if I get my hands on this 1 hour of audio tape having to do with the O'hare UFO sighting I'll post it on ATS.

So, Classified, how did it go?

Did you get a response, or did they come up with another excuse/tactic?

Thanks!

I tried calling the lady back today in fact but got her answering machine. She said to leave my name and number and she would get back to me ASAP. So I did. Just waiting for her to call me back now...

I'll tell her I know the head of a web site with over 1,000,000 members and that person is going to be involved in a Discovery Channel program dealing with the alleged UFO sighting over O'hare airport. Maybe then they'll give me the tape for free.

I'd say "I Represent a web site with over 1 million readers".

Far more impressive than saying "I know the owner.."

Kinda like saying "I represent the President of the United States" is far more impressive than saying "I know the President of the United States..."

It gives you more authority. Especially if the Authority in question (Springer) is willing to back you up!

Don't worry about the anxiety. As part of my day to day gov't job, I live on the phone; lots of people have the same anxiety. I don't know why, but it's very common; you are not alone.

Knowing what you want to say, the most important facts you want to get across, seems to help alot. Focus on those.

Knowing how to say something can be helped by having it written down; then all you have to do is read what you've written (OK, That might be a bit difficult if you write like a doctor!)

Feel free to use any or all of the "script" I posted on the first page of this thread if you think it might help.

Almost all gov't employees are over-worked and under-paid, just like you; no need to fear them. Best strategy is to make their job as easy as possible...tends to win them over and make them more likly to help you in ways they wouldn't normally.

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Regardless togetic, 30 dollars is still a ridiculous amount of money to copy a tape! At most they should charge 3.

It's not the cost of the tape that would be a problem.

A human being has to first find the tape, then spend TIME copying it and also spend TIME filling out the required paperwork. It might cost an employee one hour of time to complete the procedure, in which case paying $30 is not unreasonable. Electricians, Plumbers and most other Tradesmen charge far more per hour to complete small jobs.

Most people on the planet do not work free of charge, especially those in government agencies. You're paying for the TIME it takes to copy the tape - labour charges.

In this case, time is money.

Any luck? This is like the "to be continued" shows on TV.

Kudos for having the fortitude to file the FOIA request.

If past experience holds true; government employees usually ignore the first message or two to screen the nuisance calls. You may have to leave multiple messages before you get a response.

One more thought. Tell them that a forum with hundreds of thousands of followers is waiting for a report on your response and that many of us are U.S. voters.

I really doubt that they're not going to give this to you for free. The policy says

Documents shall be furnished without charge, or at reduced charges if disclosure of the information is in the public interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations or activities of the government, and is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester. 15 CFR § 4.11 (k)

I don't that they'll think this request meets that requirement. But $30 is nothing, I'm sure someone will pay and obtain the recording.

If they still refuse, maybe starting some kind of petition here would be helpful in future requests. Can they say its not in public interest if there's a million or so petition signatures??

thats so ridiculous they charge money. wow we have freedom of information but it isnt free..... in the uk you can just email them and they will email you back the information

look the fee IS rediculous but...

Take them to small claims court if you have to"

I absolutely hate that pathetic attitude...if thats how you get through life making hollow threats to try to get your way I really pity you. This has to be the most cliche ugly american phrase ever...
if you really want something use your fists, use your wit/charm, use your intellect, or use your own damn wallet. Using the "or I'll sue" makes me laugh every time. Any clue how expensive it is to sue someone? Muchless someone much larger financially than yourself? Prepared for the court fees, paperwork fees? Laywer fees, and then finally to repay the court and laywer fees of the winning party who is likely the guy you are suing?

Pathetic advice to give the guy. I like Springers advice the most, talk to someone in charge and inform them that you represent a online forum with x,000,00,000000 members watched by the media.

Well, I still don't think $30 is an excessive fee.

Like tezzajw said, you're not just paying for a tape, you're paying for the time it takes for government workers to process and fulfill your request. I bet when all is said and done, it would cost the United States more than $30 to actually provide this for you.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well, I still don't think $30 is an excessive fee.

Like tezzajw said, you're not just paying for a tape, you're paying for the time it takes for government workers to process and fulfill your request. I bet when all is said and done, it would cost the United States more than $30 to actually provide this for you.

Isn't that why we pay taxes??

Originally posted by gotanybob
Isn't that why we pay taxes??

I don't think so. We have to pay fees to get driver's licenses, birth certificates, wedding licenses, death certificates, searches of court papers, passports and countless other things. And those are much more necessary to life than just asking for a copy of an air traffic control tape that you think may have something to do with a UFO.

[edit on 2/20/2007 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by gotanybob
Isn't that why we pay taxes??

I don't think so. We have to pay fees to get driver's licenses, birth certificates, wedding licenses, death certificates, searches of court papers, passports and countless other things. And those are much more necessary to life than just asking for a copy of an air traffic control tape that you think may have something to do with a UFO.

[edit on 2/20/2007 by djohnsto77]

i think what he is saying is that on top of every single tax why do they have to get 30 bucks for handing someone a paper that isnt personal but is on file. even 5 or 10 dollars i wouldnt complain about but they really are just ripping people off

good luck actually getting the tape anytime soon, i just did a paper on the FOIA last fall for a class and found that there are major delays getting even the simplest requests sent. sometimes these take several years to get the information sent. the government really dropped the ball on the FOIA, cause its very inefficient and the organizations will find any excuse they can to NOT send the info. if you really want it bad you will have to take them to court to get it but thats a real waste of money IMO. pay the 30 bucks to get it but be prepared to never see the fruits of the 30 bucks for a long a** time.

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by gotanybob
Isn't that why we pay taxes??

I don't think so. We have to pay fees to get driver's licenses, birth certificates, wedding licenses, death certificates, searches of court papers, passports and countless other things. And those are much more necessary to life than just asking for a copy of an air traffic control tape that you think may have something to do with a UFO.

[edit on 2/20/2007 by djohnsto77]

Well seeing as I just got back from doing my taxes my statement might have been a little biased..

Originally posted by jemblem62
i think what he is saying is that on top of every single tax why do they have to get 30 bucks for handing someone a paper that isnt personal but is on file. even 5 or 10 dollars i wouldnt complain about but they really are just ripping people off

What they are offering for $30 is a copy of a tape recorded from a control tower. I'm not an expert, but I imagine these tapes are not automatically converted into a computer file and put online for easy access. Someone is going to physically have to find the tape, queue it to the correct time he wants, record it to another tape, possibly have to get it cleared as to having no classified or personal information on it, wrap it up and send it to him.

You say you could get that e-mailed to you in no time in the UK -- I'd bet almost anything that you can't. Try to call up your FOI office and ask them to e-mail you an mp3 audio file covering some random hour of time recorded from Heathrow's control tower weeks ago and see how far you get.