My O'hare UFO FOIA request

Got their response in the mail today via certified mail from the U.S. Department of Transportation (FAA). I can't type all of it but pretty much they said I am not in a big enough position to inform the public about this disclosure, so instead of it being free I have to pay them $30 for a 1 hour audio tape they say they will send me.

Now I have to decide whether or not to send them the $30. I'm really broke right now. I'm sure many others have sent in FOIA requests for the same info so I doubt I'm the only person that these folks are willing send this 1 hour audio tape to.

Your thoughts and/or suggestions...?

[edit on 12-2-2007 by classified material]

See if they can email you the file, it seems funny to me that information that is supposed to be freely accessable to the public costs money. If they can't email it to you, raise hell, there is no reason you should have to pay your money for access to information that you are entitled to. Take them to small claims court if you have to, I'm sure there are plenty of judges out there that would sympathize with such a noble personal effort.

I would tell them that it be much more efficient and cost effective for them if they just put everything online like the rest of the civilized world has been doing for the last ten years.

This is what I like to call blatant supression of information. First they make you personally contact a government agency to see if you can obtain access via the most impersonal and slow method known to man the mail. Second, they hit you up for 30 bucks for an hour long audio tape. When has anyone spent 30 bucks for an audio tape!!!!!! Third, you know, I know, and so does everyone else that there will be nothing of value on that 30 dollar tape. The only thing that will be on there is proof of government disinformation, which might be cool in its own right!

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

im sure we could fund 30 stinking bucks....
give the mods a pay pal address and well send it to you....

No, I don't have a pay pal account.

By the way...if you remember meshuggah1324, that's me...or was

[edit on 12-2-2007 by classified material]

Originally posted by Low Orbit
See if they can email you the file, it seems funny to me that information that is supposed to be freely accessable to the public costs money. If they can't email it to you, raise hell, there is no reason you should have to pay your money for access to information that you are entitled to. Take them to small claims court if you have to, I'm sure there are plenty of judges out there that would sympathize with such a noble personal effort.

I would tell them that it be much more efficient and cost effective for them if they just put everything online like the rest of the civilized world has been doing for the last ten years.

Under FOIA, the agency in question is allowed to charge the reasonable cost of providing a suitable facsimilie to the person making the request.

Tell them you represent a website with well over 1,000,000 readers, THAT should make you "big enough".

If they won't budge because you can't prove you're one of the owners let me know, we'll either get $30.00 or I'll contact them my dam self.

Springer...

Regardless togetic, 30 dollars is still a ridiculous amount of money to copy a tape! At most they should charge 3. How much does a musician's tape cost to buy at tower, 12 dollars? And that's 2 hours long, which is twice as long. Furthermore, the cost of the audio tape of the musician also includes what he makes, what his people make, equiptment, studio, etc etc. So the actual cost to just copy a tape is much cheaper than 12 dollars. 30 dollars for a 1 hour audio tape is insane, you could win in small claims court with this, if you want to take the time to jump through that hoop.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

Originally posted by Springer
Tell them you represent a website with well over 1,000,000 readers, THAT should make you "big enough".

If they won't budge because you can't prove you're one of the owners let me know, we'll either get $30.00 or I'll contact them my dam self.

Springer...

Deal. I'll give them a call to try and explain ATS to them and then post what they have to say.

Originally posted by Springer
Tell them you represent a website with well over 1,000,000 readers, THAT should make you "big enough".

If they won't budge because you can't prove you're one of the owners let me know, we'll either get $30.00 or I'll contact them my dam self.

Springer...

yee haww!
you go springer!
too bad i cant give you a way above vote.....
i hope this will do.

I just tried calling the phone number they gave me if I had any questions or concerns. I got a ladies answering machine saying she was out of the office and would return on Thursday Feb. 15. So I'll try her back on Thursday.

In the mean time, could you folks help me out with suggestions as to what exactly I should say to her? I'd really appreciate it. Of course if I get my hands on this 1 hour of audio tape having to do with the O'hare UFO sighting I'll post it on ATS.

I'm thinking that you might not want to say that you are a member of ATS....

Although I can understand the reasons why as stated in previous posts, I wonder if they will backtrack because of their concern that your video will be posted on this newsgroup(it will won't it? :duh and they wouldn't want that because then they would lose all of the other potential $30.00....

Just a thought, what do you think?

I could say that I know Stan Friedman and Richard Dolan which I do. I don't know. They make it hard to get information. They make it seem like you need to be a Senator for crying out loud!

I am in contact with John Hilkevitch (the Tribune Reporter who broke this story) and I asked him if he receieved the same response to his FOIA request from FAA.

If he did I am pretty sure the Chicago Tribune is "Big Enough" to get the tape for free. I hope he's aready got it.

If he did not, then I will call this woman at FAA (if you give me her name and number) and get this tape released for free.

Springer...

[edit on 2-12-2007 by Springer]

I used to work for GlobalSecurity.org and we obviously FOIAed all the time. It was not uncommon to have to pay for info depending on what we were requesting, and we were considered a fairly respectable (they still are in my opinion) and objective think tank. 30 dollars does seem a bit steep to me but maybe times have changed. Nevertheless 30 bucks in the grand scheme of things is not all that much in my opinion for something that big. (Bap quietly sinks back into the shadows when someone suggests he pay for it then.)

Originally posted by classified material
I could say that I know Stan Friedman and Richard Dolan which I do. I don't know. They make it hard to get information. They make it seem like you need to be a Senator for crying out loud!

This is how they keep information like this under wraps. Make it cost and time effective, then give people the run around. This way the average american who works 40-50 hours a week won't have the time or money to get it and will just give up.

Originally posted by classified material
I just tried calling the phone number they gave me if I had any questions or concerns. I got a ladies answering machine saying she was out of the office and would return on Thursday Feb. 15. So I'll try her back on Thursday.

In the mean time, could you folks help me out with suggestions as to what exactly I should say to her? I'd really appreciate it. Of course if I get my hands on this 1 hour of audio tape having to do with the O'hare UFO sighting I'll post it on ATS.

I happen to work for a gov't agancy, so here's my advice:

"Good morning/afternoon sir/mamam. My name is XXXX. On (Date FOIA was sent) I filed an FOI request (Supply ID # of request, if assigned) for any and all information and documents pertatining to an unauthorized violation of the airspace over and/or near O'Hare International Airport in Chicago Illinois, on or about November 7, 2006."

In this matter, I am acting as a representative of Above Top Secret.Com, a website dedicated to news and public affairs with a current readership of over 1 million.

I'm afraid that I must apologize for failing to make this fact evident in my initial correspondence. I assume this misunderstanding to be reason your agency concluded that the information requested was for my personal use, and thus imposed the $30 charge.

Of course you may contact the owners of AboveTopSecret.Com at (contact name/address/phone#/personal e-mail) (I imagine one of the Three Amigos would/could supply this ingo to you, privately?) to verify my credentials in this matter.

Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding, and I do request that any fees previously stated, be waived, In The Public's Interest.

Additionally, to avoid a future duplication of effort, I request that the audio tapes refered to in your prior correspondence be accompanied by authorized written transcipts, if such exist, or are made available in the future.


(Note: This is to 1.) insure that we get the "Official", on-the-record interpetation of the tape's contents. and 2.) If they give us a "Blank" or inaudible tape, we will be able to compare that against any later, pertinent, testimony. Just keeping them "Honest"!)


If a written transcipt of the aforementioned tape is, or will not be made available, please enclose a statment to that effect with the requested material, as well.

Given what we feel to be the importance of this information to the public's knowledge and welfare, I would also like to request that these materials be delivered by either certified mail or a secured private delivery service, such as UPS or Federal Express."


(Old ploy: Take the money, don't send the goods, If the citizen complains, claim the stuff "must have been lost in the mail" and refund the payment. repeat as needed, until the fool gives up)

If you get the tape, it's probably going to be a DAT. IF so, you'll need to find someone with a DAT player - maybe a musician or audio/video producer.


[edit on 12-2-2007 by disownedsky]

[edit on 12-2-2007 by disownedsky]

Originally posted by disownedsky
If you get the tape, it's probably going to be a DAT. IF so, you'll need to find someone with a DAT player - maybe a musician or audio/video producer.


[edit on 12-2-2007 by disownedsky]

[edit on 12-2-2007 by disownedsky]

That won't be a problem. I know a few people who run recording studios.

I have DAT player....a fostex. Not sure how much good that would do in Atlanta, Ga.....

I live 25 minutes from ATL!