On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Frozenthought
These clips are not my footage, I am not from there, If these people say there are no airports, I have no reason to doubt them. but if you must doubt, knock yourself out.

1, I never said it was your footage.

2. You are not being very objective once again if you can not see what is going on in the video, you should have some doubt simply because you did not take the video or do you always take someones wourd no matter what they say?

I believe them because I have been filming the exact same thing over lake Erie for four years now, that convinced me.

Frozen, can you do me a favour, put a list together of points that make you believe that these are not conventional aircraft. It's getting harder and harder to track everything with this thread growing so large.

Thanks much.

Originally posted by Frozenthought
I believe them because I have been filming the exact same thing over lake Erie for four years now, that convinced me.

The way you make it sound if I were to go down to Milwaukee or ORD in Chicago and film planes landing over the lake and post it and say I filmed it over lake Erie there most certainly is something wrong with that picture.

A few words of advice for you. Never take anyone on the Internet for their world ask for proof.

Some People even questioned your video based on the sound of the waves, but since you told me the approximate location and now knowing there is that inlet behind you by the plant that could explain why they thought it was a smaller body of water.

Originally posted by Southpaw11
SHOTS WROTE:

As you can see at that distance they are in reality right over the water under the horizon which proves that the objects you saw would in fact be at around 30,000 if not higher and also farther apart then you think.




SOUTHPAW RESPONSE
I don't know that this is necessarily the right way to approach this. Does it REALLY "prove" anything other than another POSSIBLE explanation? Is not the possiblity of THAT solution just as plausible as that of FrozenThought?

Atmospheric distorition... etc... When you look at that vid. Those craft made contact. They were not two like sized aircraft... the lighting patterns, first of all... are NOT nav lights.

Landing lights? Hmmm.... perhaps.

But ...

DEFINTELY NOT the "anomoly"?

Too fast.

RESERVE JUDGEMENT.

I'm going to repeat myself, or rather, I am going to repeat Feynman, which hopefully will be less objectionable:

Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if you know them. You must do the best you can -- if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong -- to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it.

Read the whole thing here:

wwwcdf.pd.infn.it...

The burden is clearly on the OP to show that there is anything in his video that requires any extraordinary interpretation, especially (but not necessarily) considering the strong and detailed arguments that everything there is explained by conventional aircraft conducting routine operations. This has not happened.

I think we can firmly conclude that there is no evidence of anything anomalous here and move on. Hey, science is hard.

Someone told me about this clip. kinda looks the same
www.youtube.com...

David Sereda backs up Michael's (FrozenThought) footage on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory.

Check it out here, put in the date of Feb 15th at 2am:
www.cjob.com...

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Someone told me about this clip. kinda looks the same
www.youtube.com...

Interesting but here's a quote from the guy who shot the video:

Naitsrk:

"I actually think you're right, last night i saw it again, then i look up and the red lights turned into plane lights, so yeah, just a plane."

Should we get a separate forum for posting airplane/airliner video?

Originally posted by lagos

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Someone told me about this clip. kinda looks the same
www.youtube.com...

Interesting but here's a quote from the guy who shot the video:

Naitsrk:

"I actually think you're right, last night i saw it again, then i look up and the red lights turned into plane lights, so yeah, just a plane."

Should we get a separate forum for posting airplane/airliner video?

That was not me.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Frozenthought
These clips are not my footage, I am not from there, If these people say there are no airports, I have no reason to doubt them. but if you must doubt, knock yourself out.

1, I never said it was your footage.

2. You are not being very objective once again if you can not see what is going on in the video, you should have some doubt simply because you did not take the video or do you always take someones word no matter what they say?


[edit on 2/14/2007 by shots]

SHOTS
With regard to your #2 above... again...

What if he knows something else that confirms it for him? His resistance is what made me reconsider any doubt. His conviction is what made me STOP.

And to the "deer in headlights" this will sound just like more "malarchy"...

AGAIN Go read the book of JOB. For those of you with abduction events in your histories... prepare for a bit of enlightenment.

AGAIN, I really do believe the "abduction phenomena" is something that could potentially have spread as far as ALL HUMANITY with a small percentage having been "allowed" recall of the events.

It's a theory for now... well... to many a "theory"... but that's really more of a "formality" than anything else at this juncture...

If you were standing in the middle of the road and someone yelled to you... "LOOK OUT!!!" Are you going to stand there... look around... and try to figure out what all the "hubbub" is about... or are you gonna MOVE!!!!!!!! ?

Now...

Consider that the person yelling to you ... saw the BUS... knew there was only time enough to utter the words "LOOK OUT" and you still have time to save yourself...

But YOU chose to look around...

BOOM!!!

See what I mean? Weird, eh?

Don't get me wrong... there's a need to for CONFIRMATION.

But what if there is reason that FrozenThought KNOWS what has been witnessed?

What if the "illusion" is when people in here try and simply "debunk" the entire experience. Did anybody ask for a written account of the ENTIRE DAY yet?

Hmmm... HEY FROZEN... what happened the night before? have you seen these lights BEFORE? WHERE? And guess what? WHEN he tells you all that he's seen them before BUT in a different location... and this is ALL speculation on my part right now... just a hunch... will that NOT shoot this 747 in a traffic pattern theory straight out of the water?

WHY are we, as investigators critical AT ALL of this man, without having FIRST ascertained ALL the relevent data? Is it NOT presumption that the ONLY relevent data to this "sighting" is on that film?

Witness testimony MATTERS in a court of law. It should be NO different HERE.

I say folks just like FrozenThought are having this same thing happen to them all over the globe. I say all over the globe people are in this weird state of disbelief...

AGAIN... GO READ THE BOOK OF JOB. Gee... VERY interesting parallels, no? Hmmm... is it NOT strange that Job's 3 friends are saying several of the SAME things that are said to abductees when they try to share their experience? I mean TO THE LETTER. It is VERY strange.

I had been told the book was all about Job casting off God. When I went back and reread it recently... WOW. Job was an abductee. Period. He pretty much says it himself through that Book in the Bible...

I can tell you this much: I don't need anything more from FROZEN to KNOW this event was REAL. I can tell you, also, that I believe that FrozenThought is telling the truth about what happened that night.

I also believe that "proving" whether this is a UFO is the LEAST of the worries from that evening, and perhaps many others.

And, again, I think that even the proponents of the "disclosure" are in HERE asking the WRONG questions...

Here's the weird part. SOME that are asking the WRONG questions are some of those that are ALSO obvious abductees...

See what I mean folks? What if there's NOT "one right answer"? What if ALL your assessments are ACCURATE based upon what YOU have been allowed to see?

Impossible? Long shot?

Hmmm... I don't think sooooooooooo.


No... Frozen is NOT lying. Likewise, we've been sitting here bashing this video and that... His and others...

The whole time doing PRECISELY what they want... NEVER GETTING TO THE MEAT. NEVER SEEING BEYOND THE DIVERSION.

Nuts, you say? I even predict that instead of turning yourselves around and going after the "meat"... you will say "oh southpaw... thats ridiculous.... why this why that why why why"

LOL!

Ya know... it's almost... and almost is even a reach... to see everybody in here going through the same confusions and chaos I've been through myself trying to understand...

You're all asking Frozen questions about something that may be only a "symptom" and NOT the actual "event"...

Just a thought.

SPout

[edit on 15/202/07 by Southpaw11]

[edit on 15/202/07 by Southpaw11]

[edit on 15/202/07 by Southpaw11]

www.fromheretoandromeda.com

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Originally posted by Frozenthought
www.fromheretoandromeda.com

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Interesting choice, Frozen. I'm listening to the show right now from last night. Sereda just posed a theory that caught my attention immediately.

He did NOT cite "religion". Did not say "Christ" nor "God". But discussed my theory exactly.

His concept was regarding the possibility that they are "pulling" those of humanity that have the ability to inspire humanity to reach "COLLECTIVE CONCIOUSNESS".

Now imagine THAT. Their fear is of US becoming ONE.

You know... "OneLove... OneLife...Let's get together and feel alright..."

Don't ya get it? Humanity has KNOWN the whole time. Underneath it ALL we've been crying out in song. We've been crying out in film, on stage... in advertising for cryin out loud!

CRYING OUT!

Those of you that are abductees... You have RECALL. You are ALSO very compassionate people aren't you? YOU are empathic? Aren't you?

Did you ever stop to ponder WHY you are like that? Your upbringing perhaps? Well... abduction follows genetic lines... so yeah... that would be involved for sure... but your parents probably have the same qualities... probably abductees themselves...

What if YOU have that quality... you feel the NEED to help humanity... to help those in need... because NOBODY WAS THERE TO HELP YOU.

did you EVER consider THAT as an explanation?

SPout

Originally posted by Frozenthought
www.fromheretoandromeda.com

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Hey Frozenthought, careful there. Don't want you to get warned by a mod or anything, so am letting you know that just posting links like that is a no no on ATS.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Frozenthought

Originally posted by lagos

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Someone told me about this clip. kinda looks the same
www.youtube.com...

Interesting but here's a quote from the guy who shot the video:

Naitsrk:

"I actually think you're right, last night i saw it again, then i look up and the red lights turned into plane lights, so yeah, just a plane."

Should we get a separate forum for posting airplane/airliner video?

That was not me.

Nobody said it was you. It was a quote from the guy that filmed a video that you put a link to on here saying it looked just like what you saw. But that guy kept his eye on it and determined that it was a plane.

So, in fact, you are giving more credence to the opinion that what you saw was just a plane or planes as well.

Absolute certainty is almost impossible with regard to identifying a ufo as an actual ufo or an airplane because the things are able to shapeshift. There are videos of ufos morphing from one shape into others. I think whoever is controlling the ufos probably shift them, from time to time, into the shapes of ordinary aircraft in order to move around the skies undetected as ufos. So, it can be very difficult to determine by the "appearance" of lights alone if they are ufos or airplanes, unless they make some of their rapid manuevers that ordinary planes are incapable of.

Originally posted by SkyWay
Absolute certainty is almost impossible with regard to identifying a ufo as an actual ufo or an airplane because the things are able to shapeshift. There are videos of ufos morphing from one shape into others. I think whoever is controlling the ufos probably shift them, from time to time, into the shapes of ordinary aircraft in order to move around the skies undetected as ufos. So, it can be very difficult to determine by the "appearance" of lights alone if they are ufos or airplanes, unless they make some of their rapid manuevers that ordinary planes are incapable of.

Yes, you might be right there, but if we were to take that logic for every video posted it would get ridiculous. Anybody could start posting videos of any object and proclaim it to be "huge" and "mind blowing" evidence and it would not violate T&Cs because, "the things are able to shapeshift"?
I'm not saying that Frozenthought is in violation however, it could just be mistaken identitty.
As far as evidence goes, these act like planes, look like planes and are in a heavy approach area of planes as many have shown, heck.......... might they just as well be planes?

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Xeros]

Originally posted by Xeros
As far as evidence goes, these act like planes, look like planes and are in a heavy approach area of planes as many have shown, heck.......... might they just as well be planes?

More evidence supporting the theory that more then likely it was aircraft. the air route known as Himenz One with another holding pattern slightly North and West of Cleveland yet farther out then the holding pattern located at Burke.

You can insert the coordinates into Google earth to locate its exact location which again is consitent with where the lights were located.

Note the rotation of the holding pattern at Himenz it is consistent with the direction the objects were flying.

[edit on 2/15/2007 by shots]

[edit on 2/15/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by SkyWay
Absolute certainty is almost impossible with regard to identifying a ufo as an actual ufo or an airplane because the things are able to shapeshift. There are videos of ufos morphing from one shape into others. I think whoever is controlling the ufos probably shift them, from time to time, into the shapes of ordinary aircraft in order to move around the skies undetected as ufos. So, it can be very difficult to determine by the "appearance" of lights alone if they are ufos or airplanes, unless they make some of their rapid manuevers that ordinary planes are incapable of.

I find this intriguing. I hadn't stretched this far yet... but if they can change the image of a gray into santa claus... then heck...why not that too...

An interesting possibility. Noted.

SPout

I think there have been videos of what appeared to be helicopters shapeshifting into ufos. I vaguely recall seeing some video on television of such a thing.

Perhaps another way to gauge whether a flying object is an airplane, helicopter, or ufo is the amount of noise they emit. Ufos are almost always completely silent. They can also change direction instantly without having to bank in a wide arc like an airplane, and without any change in speed, even when they are traveling very fast. If anything behaves in such a manner it is probably a ufo.

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Someone told me about this clip. kinda looks the same
www.youtube.com...

Sorry if this has been said, but the guy who posted that video says in a comment for that video that he saw it again the next night and that it was a plane.

Whoa I was way to slow on this one Sorry for mentioning it again.

Just had a thought, the direction he (Frozenthought) was filming and the path of the planes on that diagram, wouldn't that put the direction he was facing behind the airplanes? Wouldn't that make it hard to see the landing lights? And btw I am in NO WAY saying these are UFO's because filming directly towards an airport well you just have to use a little sense and realize that its probably the simple explanation. Planes, or beings from another Solar System / dimension? Ill go with planes based on this video.

[edit on 15-2-2007 by uninspired]

[edit on 15-2-2007 by uninspired]

[edit on 15-2-2007 by uninspired]

Ya, i wans't that taken by this video, The lights are kinda on top of one another, I wonder why the guy ever posted the video if he knew it was a plane?