Why not open the US' borders and let illegals compete for ALL US jobs?

Double post sorry. See previous page.



[edit on 7-2-2007 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by mrwupy
If an uneducated man, crossing into a country that considers him illegal and can't speak the language of the country he is entering...If that man...can take your job....The problem isn't with him, It's with you.

You tellem Wupy! LOL Thats the truth. The majority of these people are basically the Indians of Mexico, the lower class under educated ones. They can't vie for middle class jobs. Now their children who are going to schools here and becoming educated now thats a different story. They can and do get those jobs assuming they are qualified.

These guys probably make pennies a day in their country for the labor they do here for 50.00 a day.

I agree that IF they have the proper credentials and in some arenas at least to speak our language.

Originally posted by Low Orbit
The wealthy of Mexico would come to the US except for the fact that......

....they're wealthy in Mexico. Why move?
It's the poor and uneducated Mexicans that are moving here............in droves.
America is building a bigger lower class (and I do not intend this to be a slur to Mexicans, as I know there are tons of bright ones out there).
And we can thank Uncle Sam for that.

Originally posted by mrwupy
If an uneducated man, crossing into a country that considers him illegal and can't speak the language of the country he is entering...If that man...can take your job....The problem isn't with him, It's with you.

Yes and no.
Not if your employer knows he can pay the illegal alot less than you.
And yet, the illegal thinks he's making tons (compared to where he use to live), but still has to deal with our American cost of living. One of these days the illegals will wake up. They're being ripped off, IMHO.

As I may have mentioned elsewhere on ATS, I am the product of a small, impoverished Asian country, though my upbringing and life were cosmopolitan.

I have never visited the United States. However, I would find it difficult to count the number of South Asian, Southeast Asian and Arab friends, relatives and former schoolmates of mine who now live in the USA.

The thing they all have in common is that they are educated professionals: scientists, techno-entrepreneurs, doctors, lawyers, business folk and so on.

It is much, much easier for people like that to get into America than it is for the poor folk who man your fast-food outlets and gas stations.

This has always been the norm: one rule for the rich, one rule for the poor. It's wicked and unfair, but there it is.

Personally, I'm in favour of open borders, not just for America but for every country in the world. If companies, goods, services and money can move freely from country to country, why not people?

Originally posted by mrwupy
If an uneducated man, crossing into a country that considers him illegal and can't speak the language of the country he is entering...If that man...can take your job....The problem isn't with him, It's with you.

No illegal is going to take my job. I've even tried to teach it to a few illegals that work at my company. (I was hoping to get them to do it so I could goof off.) That is simply not going to happen.

If a non english speaking, uneducated illegal alien can take your job, you need to go back to school. You need to get a better education and perhaps think about forming a little security in your life.

No one took my job, I'm still working there. The illegals who I work with speak english, that isn't the issue at hand. They aren't "educated" however they are skilled workers and have different skills such as automotive repair and landscaping.

You are the one that said they were uneducated and couldn't speak english. I'm sure illegals would be quiet capable of doing whatever your job is, maybe your lessons were lost in translation. Tell me your job I'm sure I could find an illegal somewhere who would do it for less.

Originally posted by mrwupy
If an uneducated man, crossing into a country that considers him illegal and can't speak the language of the country he is entering...If that man...can take your job....The problem isn't with him, It's with you.

No illegal is going to take my job. I've even tried to teach it to a few illegals that work at my company. (I was hoping to get them to do it so I could goof off.) That is simply not going to happen.

If a non english speaking, uneducated illegal alien can take your job, you need to go back to school. You need to get a better education and perhaps think about forming a little security in your life.

100% disagree. Where I am from (Columbus OH) there are many illegal immigrants. Construction jobs are serious jobs for working class people. Jobs that the average blue-collar worker needs to support their families and make a living. These are good jobs. Illegal immigrants are replacing Americans for these jobs because the illegals shack up in houses with 20 people and can accept a pay rate that is considerably less than the average American. This hurts hard working honest families who pay taxes and support this country. Your post is insulting to American workers and it is not thought out very well.

Great Posts Asty and Zero, thanks for the support. Please everyone keep the comments coming, this is great stuff! Does anyone else care to throw their opinion into the fire?

As a long-time resident of South Texas, let me just say that our southern borders have been open for years, for all intents and purposes. I live it, I see it everyday; illegals pretty much come and go as they please. Also, large parts of South Texas are nowadays used as 'stopovers' by the illegals and the 'Mexican mafia' for their thriving drug trade. Local county sheriffs and municipal officers are basically outgunned. I know; because I know some of these peace officers personally. As I said, I live it and see it every day.

It is not about finding the best person for the job from a group of illegals. It is about finding the cheapest labor (as someone above noted). Its about our government allowing cheap labor to flood our markets and illegals to drown our social services. Why? I'm really not sure. To weaken our country in order to allow more control of our country? I really don't know the overall scheme; but I sure can see what is happening on the ground floor.

In a perfect world, I would like persons from other countries to come to this country legally and better themselves; just like my mother and father did. They came over legally, found jobs, educated themselves, and bettered themselves. They didn't suck the government tit.

Please tell me how open borders are going to address the following issues:

1. The third world population doubles every few decades

2. Mexico is one of the most corrupt nations on earth

3. The South West's natural environment is being destroyed as a direct result of urbanisation.

Even at current estimates, thousands of people are getting across the border every single day. Time Magazine did an in-depth feature a couple of years ago which is well worth a look. Security is now stepped up at airports for incoming flights from Europe whilst border patrol resources are stripped away. Anyone can get here, carrying almost anything for any reason.

I do not see how opening borders would be beneficial for society as a whole; such a move would not be sustainable especially as regards the damage to the environment and social cohesion. I believe those troops in Iraq should get the hell out and start being stationed along our border. Only 'then' can we start to effect positive change for both Mexicans and North Americans.

Alas, to do that we have to have accountable government..one that isn't ruled by a corporate elite with its own take on morality. Exactly the same problems are happening in Europe: lresources, security are being decimated - for what? Power and greed. Waiting a few decades until there is 400,000,000+ people squeezed into what was once a habitable environment is an unsavoury prospect especially in an already shrinking world. So why do it?

In short, I think America should look after her own house first, and only then can she even begin to help others - including Mexico and the Middle East. I also realise that this requires patience and sacrifice but the cause more than justifies the means. America is dying as a result of a cancerous growth: immigration. Worse, it appears that it is being used to destroy us from within, along with the destruction of our constitutional rights and freedoms. That was not how this great country was created but it shall be how she is irreversibly destroyed.

For the New World Order, a busted fence in Texas is the best thing going.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Ross Cross]

Ross Cross I really don't want open borders in the US. All I am trying to express right now is that illegal immigration is only hurting the poor of this country and that the upper class only benefits from illegal immigration. In order for us to fix illegal immigration we need to get the rich involved, after all they have the resources that make our country go round. Only when the rich are affected will others become aware to the problem and will be intent on seeking out a resolution to the problem.

Only when the rich have their jobs/money/power swallowed up by illegals will the country begin to stand up to this injustice. Until then the rich will work in concert with the legal and political systems of the US to ensure that they have a constant supply of cheap and constant labor pool.

The reason I said we need to open our borders entirely is because I know the problem needs to get much worse before it gets better.

Sounds like a great idea! Open up the borders and let all the illegals come in and flood our economy with cheap labor. They have done such a great job in their own country why not? Not to mention they love America so much even when they get here and get the illegal jobs they protest against us. Awesome idea! Oh and for reference illegals invaded my grandparents town some years back and it used to be a beautiful small country town where kids could play freely outside. Now its littered with Corona bottles on the streets during weekends and illegals whistle and hoot at young girls when they get off the school busses. Not to mention the stores that they bought downtown that have 5 different stores within like Latino law offices and grocery store and cell phones,beepers,and pawnshop. That they stand outside all day just throwing trash on the street like its Tijuana. They do not respect our rules,our country,our constitution and always play dumb and say no speak any English until the cops are putting the cuffs on them because of driving without a license while drunk. I'm not racist but Ive seen the damage first hand that they do to towns and it is awful. And yeah Im going to say it THEY ARE NASTY!

I'm extremely frustrated with this problem too however I know most Americans don't care right now, just ask my parents. I too would like to see something done to prevent the illegals that are in here now at the same time also taking measures to ensure they won't be coming back. However, I know right now it probably doesn't have the support due to the taboo's built up by the media and their corporate sponsors in support of cheap illegal labor. The solution I have proposed is a sarcastic attempt to get a good dialogue like the one we have started going. Through this I am trying to get more people interested with the problems associated with illegal immigration, even if it is indirectly. As the above post has already stated, it ain't all peaches and cream.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Since the lower class is taking the brunt of the illegal immigration problem. Why don't we try to spread out the problem so it doesn't just hurt the poor. If illegals really do make our country better and more competitive why don't we let them compete for all jobs including law enforcement, doctors and nurses, lawyers, accountants and all federal state and local jobs. Why should illegal immigration be held down by a glass ceiling? Why not remove that glass ceiling and let us all compete? Why is there this apparant bias for illegals?

The simple answer is that we don't have the roads or infrastructure to accommodate the flood of people who would come here. Our economy would collapse under the inflation, and everyone would be miserable.

Originally posted by Togetic

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Since the lower class is taking the brunt of the illegal immigration problem. Why don't we try to spread out the problem so it doesn't just hurt the poor. If illegals really do make our country better and more competitive why don't we let them compete for all jobs including law enforcement, doctors and nurses, lawyers, accountants and all federal state and local jobs. Why should illegal immigration be held down by a glass ceiling? Why not remove that glass ceiling and let us all compete? Why is there this apparant bias for illegals?

The simple answer is that we don't have the roads or infrastructure to accommodate the flood of people who would come here. Our economy would collapse under the inflation, and everyone would be miserable.

O you mean like the lower class in this country already is?

Originally posted by Low Orbit

Originally posted by Togetic

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Since the lower class is taking the brunt of the illegal immigration problem. Why don't we try to spread out the problem so it doesn't just hurt the poor. If illegals really do make our country better and more competitive why don't we let them compete for all jobs including law enforcement, doctors and nurses, lawyers, accountants and all federal state and local jobs. Why should illegal immigration be held down by a glass ceiling? Why not remove that glass ceiling and let us all compete? Why is there this apparant bias for illegals?

The simple answer is that we don't have the roads or infrastructure to accommodate the flood of people who would come here. Our economy would collapse under the inflation, and everyone would be miserable.

O you mean like the lower class in this country already is?

Exactly why we do not need to add more fuel to the fire.

Your post is insulting to American workers and it is not thought out very well.

Thats the Smug part I was talking about.......Where did go after stiring the pot anyway......?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
We are being fleeced! The sheep wont see it until its too late. Just keep buying what they are selling, I am sure its for your own good!

Interesting post Lone, i believe there is a book called the Art Of War which the chinese believe is good for being successfull in business.

The idea is to treat business like a military operation, and if the chinese government has adopted this approach which i believe they have, then it's a little too late now anyway the war is over before you realised it started.

Im sure i heard somewher chinese Bra sales were threatening the U.S economy, and the U.S put a ban on china for 4 years or something from trading bras in the U.S

Digital if we don't add fuel to the fire the problem will remain. You know what they say out of sight, out of mind and it's true in this situation. The situation is only going to get worse and why shouldn't we discuss it now openly instead of hiding it under the rug and pretend that to discuss such things are taboo? It is better to confront national problems openly and firmly than to hide from them and pretend they aren't there. After all, this problem will not fix itself!

It is healthy for the country in my opinion to discuss issues that split the conventional political parties in 2. This helps remind us Americans that all political issues don't just have 2 sides to it.
[edit on 8-2-2007 by Low Orbit]

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Low Orbit]