Very Important: Do you want to change your mind ok read this!!!!

Originally posted by Valhall
And it seems we are starting to see the depth of some member's obsessions to their "conspiracy theories".

Interesting comment.

The thread originator is a relatively new member as far as I can see.

No-on else on the thread has got on board with any conclusion that has developed into a conspiracy theory.

Netchicken has provided some material. Seekerof has provided alternative material. I have made levity of the conflict in the material. Other members have commented on one specific question. Conflicting information happens all the time and can be dealt with.



Which members are demonstrating an obsession here?

I feel the originator poster had a genuine question. I do not know where the spin concerning the growth and harvesting season of the date indigenous to Iraq came from, but from the Arabic captioned pic he provided, we can begin to draw a conclusion. I do not feel that the originating poster is obsessed with any given idea...as I haven't the data to make that opinion.

As for certain others on this thread I DO have the data to draw that opinion.

I agree that NC and Seekerof have contributed great value to the thread in pointing out the facts for the sake of other posters who refuse to live reality. But obsessions seem to displace reason...hence the definition and the historically proven results.

Well, those figs are looking mighty ripe to me. Which leads me to believe it is just a late bunch.
As far as the meat goes, could'nt be a better time of year to "Age" the beef.
I take a moose or caribou and hang meat this time of year, would'nt eat either without draining the blood and aging for 4-7 days. And I just hang my quarters up in the shed, no burlap or covering.
I am not convinced of any conspiracy here. I did, however, catch an interesting statement on, I believe it was msnbc, right after the saddam capture. The report stated that the CIA said saddam never had any doubles.
Well, I found that kinda strange- wish I could link it but I cannot find thid on record, as of yet.

Originally posted by Valhall
I feel the originator poster had a genuine question. I do not know where the spin concerning the growth and harvesting season of the date indigenous to Iraq came from, but from the Arabic captioned pic he provided, we can begin to draw a conclusion. I do not feel that the originating poster is obsessed with any given idea...as I haven't the data to make that opinion.

As for certain others on this thread I DO have the data to draw that opinion.

I agree that NC and Seekerof have contributed great value to the thread in pointing out the facts for the sake of other posters who refuse to live reality. But obsessions seem to displace reason...hence the definition and the historically proven results.

I was only trying to back up the orignator's post that the dates in the picture does seem to be out of place for this time of year to back up their claim, thats all.

THat's too bad you can't locate the story any more... That has been one of "the thorns in my side" about this whole damn Saddam affair, all the reported "doubles"...

First thing I questioned when they captured him, was if it was REALLY him...

Apparently it is him. ALL the BETTER. Let the left wing nut jobs cry foul all they want now, they have LOST the 2004 election (no I am NOT necessarily calling another 4 years of Bush a victory but in comp[arison to the NUT jobs the Dems have put forth I would compare it to Nervana) it amazes me how they CONTINUE to whine about the BIGGEST murderer since Stalin's regime's destruction... Makes you wonder WHAT theyu REALLY want no?

PEACE...
m...

[Edited on 12-16-2003 by Springer]

I'll do some more looking and see if I can find it- however that is what I heard, probaly 4 hrs after the breaking post was made here at ats.

Springer, in reference to the comment I made I did find a link. It appears Time has the story, but as I am not a subscriber I will link you to an alternative source

Click Here

Ah yes MA, I posted to this thread to be informative and to give "possible" information to the questions asked....but being it is coming from me....it was taken as 'disinformation'...I don't even get the benifit of the doubt? I see......

Hmmm, well, in addressing the "History and Traditions of Iraq," I noticed a few things in what you mentioned. Heres the excerpt from your "History and Traditions of Iraq", which was actually entitled: "History and Traditions."

" Harvesting takes place during the hottest period of theyear, between late June and early October, depending on the type of date tree� there are more than 50 varieties in the UAE alone."

* The first thing I noticed, is that this 'article' deals with UAE and not Iraq.
* Those are the months of harvest for dates in UAE, and as stated in the article, the UAE has 50 different type dates.
* And that Iraq produces 100-600+ different varieties of dates.
This little article I found, for which I am still looking for more, but seems to agree with our new members comments, thus far, and in respect to the dates mentions that Iraq's dates begin to ripen in August and lasts into November:
"Dates are also one of Iraq�s most famous food products, and August is the season that the fruits begin to ripen. The season runs through November"
Link:
www.estripes.com...


I will try and find more....be it 'disinformation' or not....

*edit*
I also found that wild date palms can produce fruit and ripen at varied times up to and through December, unlike cultivated date groves that ripen differently. I wonder if the photo was taken by a cultivated grove or is the date palm shown in the photograph a 'wild date palm'?


regards
seekerof


[Edited on 17-12-2003 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Ah yes MA, I posted to this thread to be informative and to give "possible" information to the questions asked....but being it is coming from me....it was taken as 'disinformation'...I don't even get the benifit of the doubt? I see......

regards
seekerof

Seekerof

As I explained immediately after, my comment was made in total levity. There is no "Dates" conspiracy theory or "Dates Disinformation" conspiracy theory... except, by definition, there now is!!

I was not making any comment about the purpose of your post being to deliberately mislead anyone. It was made with much mirth.

The process of establishing truth is to examine information and screen it for the quality of it. The source, the purpose, the relevance, and the connecion with any possible conclusion. I have no problems doing that, in fact I always insist that it's done for anything that affects me in my life - personal, business or otherwise.

No offense to you at all, Seekerof.

Dates at the begining of the season in summer become yallow color mostly happened in june and juley then at the end of the season become red color..

So look to pic what you see???!!!!

I just have a question...

If this pic was supposed to be taken in the warmer or hotter months, why are the 2 soldiers dressed for cooler, or colder months ???

yak.....where, exactly in the Arab world are you living?
In three hours of searching through this 'date conspiracy' (humor) last night, I read that in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Eygyt, Iran, and Pakistan, dates ripen at different times. They go through 4 stages also.
The closest thing I could find that states, explicitly when dates in Iraq ripen for harvest, I mentioned it in my last post. I also found that date palm groves ripen at different times and stages, depending on rainfall, etc., and that wild date palms do not ripen at the same stage and times that cultivated date palm groves do. This also varies in when and what 'stage' the grower chooses to pick the fruit/date:
The Khalaal stage
The Rutab stage
The Tamr stage
Harvesting in most countries occurs during the early Rutab stage and the Tamr stage.
Link:
enhg.4t.com...

Example:
In the UAE: "between late June and early October"
Link:
www.uaeinteract.com/uaeint_misc/pdf_2002/English_2002/ History_&_Traditions.pdf

In Egypt: "In Egypt, dates usually flower in February and March, ripening in August and September"
Link:
www.hort.purdue.edu...

In Iraq: "Dates are also one of Iraq�s most famous food products, and August is the season that the fruits begin to ripen. The season runs through November"
Link:
www.estripes.com...


Then the question is: Is this date palm, in the photograph:
1) Part of a cultivated date palm grove or a "wild" date palm?

2) Is the date palm shown a "early variety", ie: meaning, "Early varieties ripen to Rutab in late June but most are ripening from July through August and some are still around as late as October" NOTE: this is based of those that are grown, again in UAE, not Iraq, in Al Ain.
Link:
enhg.4t.com...


Cultivated date palms have a ripening window of 4-5 months, depending on the variety of the date palm grown. "Wild" date palms, varying by region, weather, other unknowns, have a ripening window of 4-6 months, being that they are not harvested nor cultivated as those grown in cultivated groves.


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 17-12-2003 by Seekerof]

I hate when people always say how all is a scam!!!! Kiwi matures in december.

Next i will hear how sept 11, 2001 was a hoax and it really didn't happen.

o wait.......maybe it was and all 3000 people are really in a detention camp being used as test subjects in the US plan to make soilders of the future zombies with no feeling of pain.


yea...yea....

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
OH NO!!!!!

Now we have not only the DATES conspiracy....

we also have the DATES DISINFORMATION conspiracy.

Tragedy has befallen the safe capture of Saddam Hussein story AND the happy return of the Bush administration to righteous government of the almighty USA.

OH NO!!!!!!!!

typical, eh? HAHA!!! good one.

I don't know anything about dates. I ran a search for more information on harvesting them, but it was fruitless.

Interesting observation, yakyaki.

Originally posted by Yoda
I just have a question...

If this pic was supposed to be taken in the warmer or hotter months, why are the 2 soldiers dressed for cooler, or colder months ???

Great observation Yoda.
Thank you for noticing that.


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Yoda
I just have a question...

If this pic was supposed to be taken in the warmer or hotter months, why are the 2 soldiers dressed for cooler, or colder months ???

Having been in the military, and in the first Gulf War, I have to ask, what makes you think they are in cold weather gear? Looks like standard fatigues to me with flak jacket - the sleeves would be down regardless, due to this being a combat mission and due to the environment - sand, sand, more sand.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Ah yes MA, I posted to this thread to be informative and to give "possible" information to the questions asked....but being it is coming from me....it was taken as 'disinformation'...I don't even get the benifit of the doubt? I see......

Well..

Im no MA..

But it surely seems that when and where you post/provide "possible" information, it looks like you think that what you have posted is relevant information or absolute truht.

Like in case of certain things unaccounted for.

And what comes to you unaccounted for items, this really is 'disinformation' as having certain unaccounted for items doesnt prove that one would have something else..

(You know about what im talking about..)



*edit*

Originally posted by Seekerof
I don't even get the benifit of the doubt?

You act and sound like Nro.1 G.W.Bush spokes person..

Go figure..

Maybe i am wrong.. maybe i am not..

Oh, and why this is important:

They dont themself know/see their lies from the truht..



[Edited on 17-12-2003 by FULCRUM]

No Fulcrum, your certainly not no MA!
Be it far from me to say, but did your post and comments have anything to contribute to this productive thread?

"Disinformation" can be defined in a variety of ways.....
it is also a matter of personal perception. IF you feel that what I contribute is 'disinformation', then so be it, that is yours, and others that agree with you, opinion.

In light of that 'disinformation' presented in this thread....have you countered or proved otherwise that it is 'disinformation' and that my intent is to spread 'disinformation'? Till then, your making a speculative, malicious, assumption.


regards
seekerof

Friends of ours have sucessfully grown bananas in their backyard. Now if I was to take a photo of me in front of the bananas and post it there would be an uproar from those who know about my city, as Bananas do not grow that far south normally.

There can be many things that affect the growing of plants, microclimates, varieties, etc etc can all produce anomalous results.

We can't base a conspiracy theory on the evidence of a bunch of figs without someone actually going and looking at the tree.

As MANY others filmed, investigated and photographed the site at the same time, chances that it was a set up appear slim....