The concept of Masons unwittingly worshipping Satan...

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[edit on 24-1-2007 by Count Germails Lovechild]

What I find funny is how the Masons seem to think that Muslims dont pray to the same God as the Christians.
I also find it funny that Masons claim they are not in a 'religous' group, yet they meet in temples.
Why not a clubhouse?

Originally posted by 11Bravo
What I find funny is how the Masons seem to think that Muslims dont pray to the same God as the Christians.

Uhhhh....and just where did you see a Mason posting that? Masons are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, et al, the common factor being the belief in a Supreme Being. Now Christians of many stripes seem to believe that Muslims pray to a different God but I think that that's more of a human power issue than anything else.

Originally posted by 11BravoI also find it funny that Masons claim they are not in a 'religous' group, yet they meet in temples.
Why not a clubhouse?

Masons ARE religious, just willing to meet good men of all creeds on the level

[edit on 24-1-2007 by Fitzgibbon]

Originally posted by 11Bravo
What I find funny is how the Masons seem to think that Muslims dont pray to the same God as the Christians.

I think most Masons would agree that Christians and Muslims pray to the same God. They just disagree as to the nature of God.

I also find it funny that Masons claim they are not in a 'religous' group, yet they meet in temples.
Why not a clubhouse?

Technically, a Masonic Lodge functions in very much the same way as a club. Some Masonic buildings are called "temples" for various reasons, but mostly because, in the fraternity's initiation rites, the Lodge room symbolically represents the Temple of King Solomon.

You know what this all really boils down to? It boils down to whether you want to believe the Bible or not.

That's up to you but one thing is perfectly clear.. You have to throw the Bible out the window and completely disreguard everything it says to make a statement like this:

Masonic Light

I think most Masons would agree that Christians and Muslims pray to the same God. They just disagree as to the nature of God.

Jesus said:

Joh 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by ME. "

Not Budha, Not Allah, not "the great architect of the universe".

Joh 1:14

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

So Jesus was the "Word made flesh"..

So to diss the word is to diss Jesus himself and that's not a risk I plan on taking any time soon.

Let me clear something up for you. You can NOT assert that Muslims and Christians worship the same God and believe in ANY of the texts regarding either.. WHY? because the Kuran makes no provision for Jesus' Deity .. SOO.. Either allah in the kuran is lying or God in the Bible is.. If you want to base anything on the texts of either you have to CHOOSE. You can either believe that it's all hogwash and we're supposed to blindly stumble towards the "great architect of the universe" or you can choose and focus on the evidence that was left behind.

So.. any TRUE Christian with even an ounce of spiritual discernment will quickly understand that Allah is not the same God mentioned in the Bible. Take that however you want.


My favorite is this:

1jo 4:3

"And every spirit that confesseth NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now ALREADY IS IT IN THE WORLD. "


Question Masonic Light,

Do you believe ANYTHING the Bible says is true or is it all just bull to you?
I'm just curiuos. No judgement or bad spirit intended.. just curious.

One thing is for certain.. allah is not the God of the Bible. It's not possible and you can't escape this reality as it is a FACT based on simple logic even a simple child would understand. To deny this logic is to deny both texts ALL TOGETHER.

If wonder how many "christians" and "muslims" in the great 'club' of masonry actually believes in their respective Bible/kuran... Apparently not many.




[edit on 24-1-2007 by ViewFromTheStars]

Greetings ViewFromTheStars



Better to interpret Kabbalistically(the Prophets are Kabbalists):


(The Universal Christ through the Bodhisattva of)Jesus said:


John 14:6

"(The Christ through)Jesus saith unto him, I(The Universal Christ) am THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father(Kether), but by ME(Chokmah). "


John 1:14

"And the Word(Chokmah) was made flesh(in Tiphereth), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father(Kether)) full of grace and truth."

So Jesus was the "Word made flesh".

Yes, he IS, in the most complete sense of the Word!

And so is Buddha, Prophet Muhammad, Zoroaster, Krishna, Quetzalcoatl, Tehuti/Hermes and many others who perfected themselves.


Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:48



As for the rest of what you've said...


Let us remember that the Bible and all other Holy Texts are works of Esoteric Science, which symbolically veil the teachings of the Tree of Life(Kabbalah) and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil(Alchemy).


"Religious" fanatics want to feel themselves to be saved while all others are going to hell, because of their ego(Satan).

They think they can enter Heaven with all their vices, lusts, hatreds, etc. This has got to be the most erroneous belief on the face of the planet!


It is just a trick of the ego that belief alone can save anyone.

(Faith without Works is dead, just as Works without Faith is dead)


Just a subterfuge to justify fornication(orgasm).

Grace And The Burden Of Salvation

The soteriological belief of many Christians that heaven is won purely by the grace of God, and that we cannot do anything to influence the outcome has, if you integrally study the Bible, nothing to do with Christianity.

Heaven is won by the grace of God because if there was not mercy and grace for us, we would already be in hell...

...When we point out the previous passage of the Bible, every Christian believes (that) they (are) "the few." It is just a painful ruse though, to play upon one's self. The idea that everyone goes to Heaven without paying what they owe is pure fabrication!

Some karma can be forgiven by Christ.

But fornication must be payed through suffering.




If any verse of the Bible is literal, it is this one:


Link: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:48



Which means to Transmute and eliminate every drop of desire and lust that we have inside; through effort, Meditation, Sexual Magic and Faith in the Saviour.




And:

Gnosis: The Science of Mysticism

...This science is not one that can be taken purely at face value. The flamboyant alchemical instruments in the laboratories of the middle ages were merely used as symbolic tools to teach a secret doctrine to the initiated, so that it would not be destroyed- by the inquisition. The Keepers of the Great Arcanum have jealously guarded this science. This is the science of creation and perfection.

Remember when Jesus said, "With patience ye shall possess thy soul."

And truly it is patience that one needs to perform the Magnum Opus, the Great Work. Symbolically speaking, this science is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil...

The Soul must be incarnated, by means of Sex between Wife and Husband, and with Chastity(non-orgasm); which is the Building of the Temple of the Soul-of-Man or Solar-Man.

In order to have the gift of the Holy Spirit, the energies of Divine Creation itself(the same energies of which Man and the Universe are born), must be properly channelled.

Nocturnal pollutions, masturbation, fornication(orgasm of any kind), etc. all cause us to lose the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Only those who have reached through Alchemy, the Second Birth, truly have the gift of the Holy Spirit from Christ.





Regards




[edit on 24-1-2007 by Tamahu]

to the original question of the post, no one can trick you into praying to a different God. whoever you THINK youre praying to is who youre praying to. just as with any organization, people can always defect from the original intent. look at how many christians do things that are evil. christians used the same christianity that we have today to justify slavery. so do we say that the God of christianity is evil, because some christians have done some evil things?

I read somewhere that at each level the initiate pledges allegiance to some new spiritual or religious figure, with the 33rd being Lucifer. Hence Masons are often cast as Luciferians (which does not equate to being Satanist btw). Is it true? Honestly, who cares.

Afaic mystery religions are religious 'Pyramid' scams. They wrap the same old tidbits of the gnostic monomyth into proprietary metaphor. By the time you're at getting near enough the top it's in your self-interest to maintain the scam.

They keep everything secret so you have to invest time, energy & money in the scheme, the payoff being some 'secret knowledge' and the more materialistic advantages of joining an old boys network and working your way up the ladder.

If the masonic faith has some kind of illuminatory knowledge it should be shared with everyone not selfishly horded. Sure, cults were persecuted in the dark ages, but last time I checked it was the 21st century.

This video will explain why they worship Satan

video.google.com... Bwithin%26hl%3Den&docid=-2134284036772812990&ev=v&esr1&usg=AL29H21MtoJLDpsJI-6j_QMxKUkI7pdRlA

The man was a former member.

That's curious as we typically do not (and can not) invite people to join.

In that case...how would one go about joining? He was actually put forward by 2 existing members who had already asked him in the past but he declined.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
What I find funny is how the Masons seem to think that Muslims dont pray to the same God as the Christians.
I also find it funny that Masons claim they are not in a 'religous' group, yet they meet in temples.
Why not a clubhouse?

Sigh...okay...
I wasn't going to say anything, I'd really rather have just minded my own business.
But (and I mean no disrespect here), you have no idea what you are saying.
First, how can you speak for the whole of any group of people, masons or not?
Second, masons don't care what being you believe in, as long as you believe.
Third, in the lodge I belong to, there is a muslim, along with hebrews, protestants, christians and lutherans. We all come together in the spirit of brotherly love and fraternity.
Which brings me to my last point, for the most part, they're not called "temples", they are referred to as "lodges".
"Temple" implies that it is a religion, which it is not.
"Lodge" implies it is a fraternity, which it in essence is.
Now, I haven't been a mason for very long, but I do know that all the men in my lodge (and all of the men I've met from the surrounding lodges) are all good men of outstanding moral character.
So please, on the whole, let's not just assume that we know the exact mindset of anyone other than ourselves, to do otherwise just makes one look foolish.

You know what happens when you assume?
You run the risk of jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Originally posted by ParaNana

That's curious as we typically do not (and can not) invite people to join.

In that case...how would one go about joining? He was actually put forward by 2 existing members who had already asked him in the past but he declined.

Traditionally one must ASK to join. When a person expresses interest the member who is asked gives him a petition to fill out (if he thinks this person is sincere and would be a good member). The petition is signed by two Master Masons and an investigating committee appointed. If the investigating committee reports favorably, the prospective candidate is voted on by the Lodge. If the vote is favorable, he is invited to become a Mason.

Originally posted by amfirst
This video will explain why they worship Satan
The man was a former member.

Many of us on this list are CURRENT members...some for MANY years including myself.

That video explained nothing. We do NOT worship Satan in Lodge. We do NOT worship ANYONE or ANYTHING in Lodge. It's not a place for WORSHIP. It's a fraternal organization. Period.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
I read somewhere that at each level the initiate pledges allegiance to some new spiritual or religious figure, with the 33rd being Lucifer. Hence Masons are often cast as Luciferians (which does not equate to being Satanist btw). Is it true? Honestly, who cares.

If you don't care, why post it?

The 33rd Degree is a very beautiful and impressive degree and I assure you "Lucifer" isn't mentioned. Not even once. The 33rd Degree (like many of the Masonic Degrees) is a form of Knighthood (you know...swords, sashes, head-gear, etc).

Originally posted by Appak

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
I read somewhere that at each level the initiate pledges allegiance to some new spiritual or religious figure, with the 33rd being Lucifer. Hence Masons are often cast as Luciferians (which does not equate to being Satanist btw). Is it true? Honestly, who cares.

If you don't care, why post it?

The 33rd Degree is a very beautiful and impressive degree and I assure you "Lucifer" isn't mentioned. Not even once. The 33rd Degree (like many of the Masonic Degrees) is a form of Knighthood (you know...swords, sashes, head-gear, etc).

It's beautiful & impressive and you can't tell us all about it, because why?

It's beautiful & impressive and you can't tell us all about it, because why?

As I mentioned before, it'd be like hearing all the detail about a new movie while you are watching it.

The particulars of the ritual are secret so they don't lose the impact upon the initiate.

If you really want to know, get out and join. If the rumors are true (which I don't believe), get out of the organization and repent.

I'd counter that beautiful art belongs in a public gallery

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
It's beautiful & impressive and you can't tell us all about it, because why?

Actually I DID tell you about it. Go into great detail about it? No. It's private and intended for those who are elected to receive it only. How impressive would it be to those elected to receive this honor if they knew all about it BEFORE receiving it? Sort of like an example on another thread here about knowing the end of a movie before watching it. What's the point?

Oh, and for those who are of the mind-set, just because it's private doesn't make it nefarious.

Most corporations have private board meetings where even employees of the company who aren't on the board are not allowed to attend. Why? Because it's board business and no one else's.

The Degrees of Masonry are the business of Masons and not non-members. I've received numerous Masonic degrees, including the Thirty-Third and can participate in (or observe the conferral of) the degrees I've received. But when a degree is being conferred that I have not a: received or b: been elected to receive, I cannot attend....because it's none of my business.

People (in general, not just you Shar_Chi) tend for some reason to think that

a: secret things are bad things and

b: they have a RIGHT to know whatever they WANT to know and this simply isn't true.


Too many things, especially in the U.S.A. are simply handed to people without them having to work to achieve them.

Masonry opens her doors to those who genuinely seek membership, but closes her doors to those who try to enter through mere curiousity. That's not to say those type people haven't made their way in, but once inside they're disappointed, because they've joined for the wrong reason.

Want to know what goes on inside? Petition your local Lodge, if you're eligible for membership. If you're not eligible, I'm sorry, but that's the way it goes. I'm not eligible to enter the Miss U.S.A. competition and darn it, I'm not eligible to be nominated for an Oscar. Those are the breaks. But you CAN read about Masonry and learn probably more thatn you'd ever care to know. Despite what people say about us being so secretive, the fact is we LOVE to write about ourselves. There are TONS and TONS of Masonic books and magazine articles out there.

Want to try secrecy on for size? Go to the Supreme Council Headquarters in Washington DC (which has an incredible Masonic Library) and you can march right in like you own the place and read ANYTHING you'd like. Heck, they'll even give you a tour of the building. We're really a nice bunch of guys.

www.srmason-sj.org...

The Iowa Masonic Library is the same way. Public welcome.

showcase.netins.net...

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
I'd counter that beautiful art belongs in a public gallery

Interesting response and part of me agrees, however....

Why? Why can't I own beautiful art and keep it all to myself? Why is the public entitled to it if I am the one who either painted it or purchased it?

I will share with you a bit of "Monitorial" Masonic ritual from the First (Entered Apprentice) Degree:

"Secrecy is the first great lesson of the Entered Apprentice degree. This great virtue is necessary in our order so that Masons will appreciate the lessons taught. As a secret shared between two people binds them together, so the secrets of our fraternity bind the brethren together. If our teachings of beautiful truth were scattered broad cast throughout the world, they would become commonplace; so they are taught under secrecy, only to those deemed worthy to receive and practice them. Taken with the salt of curiosity and expectation, they are the more readily perceived."

If our teachings of beautiful truth were scattered broad cast throughout the world, they would become commonplace

And you fear that? Frankly, if masonry has something spiritual to offer the world, then now is quite the time.