The concept of Masons unwittingly worshipping Satan...

I've been thinking about this for a while...

I truly don't understand this concept of accidentally, or unknowingly, worshipping a deity that one doesn't mean to.

If a man prays to a deity whom he thinks of as "God", within his own mind, how is it possible for that prayer to be hijacked to be received by Baphomet, or Satan?

Prayer and worship aren't like email. They can't be diverted or hacked. It just seems silly to me when I hear people say "you Masons are actually worshipping SATAN, but you won't find out until you reach the 'inner circle'!!".

The anti-Masonic Ephesians 5:11 forum alleges this kind of thing regularly, and also in connection with the fact that Masonic lodges have more than one religion represented and gathered together. They don't seem to feel that it is possible for people of multiple faiths to pray to one Supreme Being, as though prayers are mystical radio signals that operate on different frequencies, based on the individual dogmatic system of the worshipper.

How does Satan feel about prayers for the sick, or for international peace, when he receives them from the spectacularly-duped brethren, I wonder?

Comments from both sides would be awesome.

Without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometimes.

Personally I think Masons worship "order." The whole "stone worker" and "engineering" motif sort of gives it away.
But I'm not a Mason, so I really have no idea.

Originally posted by Roark
I truly don't understand this concept of accidentally, or unknowingly, worshipping a deity that one doesn't mean to.

If a man prays to a deity whom he thinks of as "God", within his own mind, how is it possible for that prayer to be hijacked to be received by Baphomet, or Satan?

Good question!

The thing that confuses me is these same people are in favor of various public prayers, in school, before government meetings, sporting events, etc...

I'm going to Indy 500 this year, and before the start of the race there is always a prayer. If during the prayer I do my own version according to these people I guess I will be able to pervert the prayers of 250,000 people!

I've never heard of an explanation for it. Probably because it doesn't make sense. If I worship, say, Vishnu, would it even matter if the Vishnu religion was started by, say, an incarnation of the devil several thousand years ago, who went around saying 'i am the goodly god vishnu, worship me eh"?? Because I wouldn't know that its 'satan', i'd only be worshiping Vishnu.

I mean, either you worship the devil knowingly, or you unknowningly are in a 'false religion', but you can't unknowingly worship a god.

And in most cases, its christians talking about people who beleive in Christ as Lord as 'unknowningly' worshipping the devil!

THe closest I have seen to an explanation is that masonry, because it is ecumenical and allows different people to worship different gods in the same ceremony, is 'worshiping christ alongside baal', which apparently is specifically forbiden in the bible.
But, again, the christian doing it, all of a sudden, christ no longer saves, because there was a guy who didn't beleive in jesus next to him worshiping?

Does that mean you can send entire churches to hell by thinking about Baal when you go to their church services????

The majority of Freemasons don't know and don't understand what they are a part of, you Masons who post on the internet, who decided to iniciate you? Could you decide to initiate someone if you wanted? What political power do you have within the society?

Because you are not one of the ones at the top, I souspect non atall.

Originally posted by adc
The majority of Freemasons don't know and don't understand what they are a part of, you Masons who post on the internet, who decided to iniciate you? Could you decide to initiate someone if you wanted? What political power do you have within the society?

Because you are not one of the ones at the top, I souspect non atall.

As opposed to to you Non-Masons who are obviously experts.

I've read these same arguments so many times on here it's just not funny anymore....it's getting sad.

Originally posted by Roark
If a man prays to a deity whom he thinks of as "God", within his own mind, how is it possible for that prayer to be hijacked to be received by Baphomet, or Satan?he worshipper.

Dear Abby

So there I was in the longest line you've ever seen for some tickets, so I decided to send a little prayer up to the Lord to speed things along a little. Then I noticed an Arab gentleman next to me with his eyes closed mumbling under his breath. Did this man steal my prayer and jump me on the line? Or did I end up praying to his pagan god and thus end up in hell for eternity?

Please advise

Troubled from Talladega

PS - should I be worried that he is sweating and carrying a large backpack?

Originally posted by adc
The majority of Freemasons don't know and don't understand what they are a part of, you Masons who post on the internet, who decided to iniciate you? Could you decide to initiate someone if you wanted? What political power do you have within the society?

Because you are not one of the ones at the top, I souspect non atall.

At least get a spellchecker

I think the theory that Masons unwittingly worship El Diablo comes from the whole Jahbulon issue, which is covered in another thread...

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I think the theory that Masons unwittingly worship El Diablo comes from the whole Jahbulon issue, which is covered in another thread...

Lets not forget Mr. Taxil, stirred up nicely by Jack Chick.

Not familiar with "Mr. Taxil", but I am with Jack Chick...

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
Not familiar with "Mr. Taxil", but I am with Jack Chick...

Well then you are missing out on one of the great anti-masons of all time. Makes some of the guys and gals here look positively tame

The Taxil Hoax

Upon speaking with my father the other day, he informed that he has been invited to join the local masons. He had to go to a meeting where they all quizzed him on certain subjects, he was sat in the middle of the room and they were sat in a half moon shape around him and firing questions at him from all sides. Upon pressing him about the Satanic aspects of masonry he informed that apparently, they dont really care what you believe, as long as you believe in some kind of higher power or intelligent design, be it God, Gaea etc etc. Therefore i can't see that any prayer is involved, unless of course we are talking here about very high level/degree masons, because obviously if you dont believe in a certain thing...you arent going to pray to it are you.. whether you realise it or not? for example, at school we were all asked to repeat the lords prayer, i didnt and do not believe in God so would not and did not ever recite this prayer.

Originally posted by ParaNana
Upon speaking with my father the other day, he informed that he has been invited to join the local masons.

That's curious as we typically do not (and can not) invite people to join.

apparently, they dont really care what you believe, as long as you believe in some kind of higher power or intelligent design, be it God, Gaea etc etc. Therefore i can't see that any prayer is involved, unless of course we are talking here about very high level/degree masons, because obviously if you dont believe in a certain thing...you arent going to pray to it are you.. whether you realise it or not?

I see that you are in the U.K. and I point that out because Masonic ritual varies from country to country, from state to state and (in the U.S. in some states...from Lodge to Lodge) But in England in the very FIRST Degree of Freemasonry the following (or a remarkably similar) prayer is used at the initiation of a candidate:

"Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father and Supreme Governor of the Universe, to our present convention, and grant that this Candidate for Freemasonry may so dedicate and devote his life to Thy service as to become a true and faithful brother among us. Endue him with a competency of Thy divine wisdom, that, assisted by the secrets of our Masonic art, he may the better be enabled to unfold the beauties of true godliness, to the honour and glory of Thy Holy Name.

Pretty much every Masonic Degree has some sort of prayer during at least the Opening and/or Closing ceremony.

Originally posted by Roark
If a man prays to a deity whom he thinks of as "God", within his own mind, how is it possible for that prayer to be hijacked to be received by Baphomet, or Satan?

I believe comments like that fall into the same bag as the mythical 'ultra-mega-super-secret-completely-unattainable-by-commoner Masonic cabal'.

This is just another attempt at conversion with 'your god/divine power/being is evil, mine's better!', normally back up by a guy with a shady past who was (allegedly) a Satanist/high ranking Mason/Wiccan etc who starts a media frenzy, which dies down when it turns out he was never in any of those organisations.

Side tracking a bit here but remember the good 'ol 'Dungeons and Dragons' media frenzy over Satanic material/teaching magic/some dude supposedly getting lost in a sewer:

atrocities.primaryerror.net...
Dark Dungeons Law. At a certain character level in Dungeons & Dragons games, Dungeon Masters begin teaching the players real magic. Unfortunately, no gamer has ever been able to determine which level this would be, and – strangely – the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide have absolutely no information on the matter. Of course, it has to be at some level, right? After all, the Christian fundamentalists who presented this information would never go against their religion by bearing false witness, would they?

[edit on 24-1-2007 by Chaoticar]

What if you worship at the church of TODD? Would that corrupt the christian worshippers and then they would inadvertantly be sent to hell? I should be allowed to worship at the church of TODD and enjoy myself, don't you think? Interesting topic.

Allow me to play Devils Advocate here, because the people who make these arguments and web sites are primarily fundamentalist Christians, and their are two VERY important verses in the Bible which assert there postion, I cannot remember the books and chapter, but they are Old Testament, which oddly enough, most Christians refer to more than the New Testament, they are: I the God, YOUR God, am a JEALOUS God* and Thou shalt have no other gods before me*
Taken literally this means the true Christian should not place themselves in a position where their is even a hint of idolitary, or commerce with pagan gods (any god other than Jehovah) to do so is to risk the wrath of the Lord: Remember this is why King Solomon fell from grace, through consorting with the pagan women

Personaly I am not religious but in my opinion all judeo/christian/ muslim type religions are worshiping satan and don't know it. And to top it all off Satan isn't a bad guy, just on the loosing end of a battle with someone else, victors write the history.

The first testement stuff shows a mean, and unrelenting god who punished people severly for the smallest things. He also made a point for people to know that there was this other dude named satan and he's an a-hole. But we only got one insecure gods opinion on some other dude. This other dude wanted to simply educate us the same way a caring parent would. God didn't want him to interfeer for we would "know too much about things"

Later the second testement has a totally different god. This god is sweet and good natured. Teached man more complicated morals and doesn't mention satan really.

I argued that God and Satan were equally powerful entities. They duked it out. The guy calling himself god won at first and started laying down the law, demonised the other guy cause he lost but is still a threat. The fight continued on and the other guy (satan) eventually won. He is the god of the new testament babbling about light and goodness, and having tolerance and morals at the same time.

So we are all worshiping the devil and he's not a bad guy it turnes out.

God=Enlil (political minded jugranought of a diety-ruled the air and heavens under his father anu in the oldest of times)

Satan=Enki (Scientific minded philanthropist, invented man, educated them, had direct ongoing conflict with Enlil for doing so and over the right to rule, also the god of the earth and ground)

THe two fought and eventually Enki's(god of land) troop wins in the end and controls man.

Both dieties(entities) are gone now and man is on his own to figure out right from wrong and to grow up alone.

friggen double posts

[edit on 24-1-2007 by BASSPLYR]

^^^^^^ If this thread degenerates onto personal beliefs and philosophies on religions I am sure that we all have a lot to share