My God Has Forsaken Me

I sit and think a lot about religion. I go over many questions through my head just like millions of people around the world. Still, after trying, I can�t overcome many questions that some people just seem to throw away.

I take the bible for what it is worth. A storybook. A great work of literature that can more than likely guide a lot of people to the answers they are looking for in life. Love your God if you choose to and worship your God in any way you see fit. Don't criticize those who don't believe in the same things you do.

I find it common for Christians to look at me in disgust when I seem to question their beliefs. I have been told several times that I am going to hell. This is by people who had no idea of whether or not I was religious. Just the act of questioning is damning for me? Now that cant be right. How can you not question things that you are told? Why would you just blindly believe something especially of this nature? I have my own opinions on why that is expected.

The belief in gods comes from the same place in all religions. As of now, there are still things we as humans cannot understand. There are answers to questions that we can't find. We don�t know everything. That will always leave room for a god. Does that mean there definitely is one? What happens if someday down the road we answer what as of now seems unable to be answered? What happens to religion then? Maybe that is the true conspiracy. Maybe the real government cover-up is maintaining religion. For stability possibly, or even just to ensure people will accept things they are told without looking into it.

There was a thread not to long ago on Noah's arc. Wondering if it was a true story. I have some issues with this. Noah�s ark is just a story that shows how that particular god loves everyone so much that he covers their world in water to drown them, when in reality they had no choice or guidance to do anything different than they were doing.

Did God created man in his own image and likeness? That�s what I have been told. Then, when they made choices that he set them up to make, He punishes those who were not even there. He doomed billions of people to pain and eternal suffering. Because in reality, they did what HE ALREADY knew they would do. If God did not want that suffering for his people, then he could not have known they were going to endure it. If he didn�t know they were going to endure it, he can�t be what I have been educated to believe. He in all his infinite wisdom should have been able to prevent all of this, for people he loves more than anything.

My mother did not have the power of an almighty god (if you don�t include the fact that she gave birth to me). She would have done anything to make my life easier. She would have died for me. So right now I have 100 people thinking, "Jesus died for you and me". Why would someone intentionally kill his or her son? I would die before I allowed my child to. I would have prevented any possibility of such troubles coming over my son. And if I loved "my people" as much as it is stated, while having infinite power and wisdom, I would have prevented the troubles that we deal with every day. Why would I exhaust every resource I could to save my child or those who I love, while my god with infinite power and love, would not do the same?

To bring this to an end, I just don�t understand why my religion teachers in school used to tell me how this wonderful God knows everything, the past, the present, and the total future. Knowing this, he made a choice for us ahead of time right? If he has total control of everything he must have. If he knows all, he must have known what was to happen. He must have known that he was to doom people he loved to hell! Why would I not question all of these things? Why should I be criticized for questioning logic that appears flawed? If there is a god, why should I be criticized for questioning obvious oversights in our knowledge of him? Should my questions bring me closer to god or not?

I find it common for Christians to look at me in disgust when I seem to question their beliefs. I have been told several times that I am going to hell. This is by people who had no idea of whether or not I was religious. Just the act of questioning is damning for me? Now that cant be right. How can you not question things that you are told? Why would you just blindly believe something especially of this nature? I have my own opinions on why that is expected.

Religion wasn't created to be questioned. It was made to be obeyed. It is a tool of control. A questioning flock, is an uncontrolled one. Just look at the story of Adam and Eve. They ate from the "Tree of Knowledge" (later amended to the more clever Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). Point is, even in the beginning of the Bible, it tells the faithful that knowledge is not to be sought, and is for God only. You would think that would start the red flags right there, but sadly, it doesn't for many....

"Religion wasn't created to be questioned. It was made to be obeyed. It is a tool of control"

Side note Gaz....
When you get married, are you and your fiance' having a preacher/priest perform the wedding ceremony?


regards
seekerof

There was a thread not to long ago on Noah's arc. Wondering if it was a true story. I have some issues with this. Noah�s ark is just a story that shows how that particular god loves everyone so much that he covers their world in water to drown them, when in reality they had no choice or guidanance to do anything different then they were doing

They knew what was right and what was wrong. At least Noah did. Why would the rest of the human race not know what they were doing.
Also, the bible says that during those days ther was a race of humans called, Nephilim, which were a mix between humans and "the sons of god", which i believe were aliens.
So there's a bunch of evil people and a mixed breed of humans that God never intended to be created. They #ed up and were punished. They deserved it. The earth deserves a punishment like that now.

[Edited on 09/28/03 by jabb]

There was a thread not to long ago on Noah's arc. Wondering if it was a true story. I have some issues with this. Noah�s ark is just a story that shows how that particular god loves everyone so much that he covers their world in water to drown them, when in reality they had no choice or guidance to do anything different than they were doing.


There are a few key words here
Let's follow a few

Wickedness of man was GREAT
EVERY imagination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil (CONTINUALLY)

where did you get this?

Did God created man in his own image and likeness? That�s what I have been told. Then, when they made choices that he set them up to make

I have scripture for this, but can't think of it right now I will post tomorrow k?

But I do ask you this. I'm not sure how old you are, but if you where a father would you MAKE your children OBEY, AND LOVE you all your life, or would you just give them the proper direction. You can NEVER unless your GOD make anyone obey/love you. And me being a father would not TRY to make my kids love me. I CAN make them obey me for a time, but that is temporary.

My mother did not have the power of an almighty god (if you don�t include the fact that she gave birth to me). She would have done anything to make my life easier. She would have died for me. So right now I have 100 people thinking, "Jesus died for you and me". Why would someone intentionally kill his or her son? I would die before I allowed my child to. I would have prevented any possibility of such troubles coming over my son. And if I loved "my people" as much as it is stated, while having infinite power and wisdom, I would have prevented the troubles that we deal with every day. Why would I exhaust every resource I could to save my child or those who I love, while my god with infinite power and love, would not do the same?

John 3:16
for God so love the work that he gave his ONLY begotten son that whosoever believe in him should not perish but have ever lasting life.

God gave the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE (HIS SON) Do I understand God's meanings...NO. Why did God sacrifice his son for ME/US...Something you/me/we don't understand until it's time, but I do tell you this. There will come a day when EVERYONE KNOWS there is a God.

Hope this helps a little

I'm real tired or I would of done more research for some of your question, but I will reply with more if you like.

Thanks
Glan

[Edited on 16-12-2003 by glan]

Originally posted by Seekerof
"Religion wasn't created to be questioned. It was made to be obeyed. It is a tool of control"

Side note Gaz....
When you get married, are you and your fiance' having a preacher/priest perform the wedding ceremony?


regards
seekerof

Very good point.

I am having a very difficult time trying to figure out which one of your gods forsook you...bein's you have rejected them.

I don't get it. What's your beef? You ridicule the Bible. You reject as the word of God. So who the hell forsook you?

It appears you have forsaken God and then decided to blame your decision on Him.

whatever.

LACK OF FAITH VS. GOD�S PROVIDENCE


Quote/
None of our own attempts and efforts can save us without the help of God, but neither can God�s help be beneficial to us without our own wish for it.
No other subject was brought up by the Lord to His disciples so frequently as lack of faith.
He warned everyone against lack of faith not only by His words, but also by the multitude of events which amazingly proved the power of faith and the powerlessness of mistrust or doubt in God�s protection and salvation from danger.
Lack of faith comes in different forms: some people have little faith in God because He does not punish His enemies; others doubt they would be able to entreat God to grant them their desires, especially when their conscience bothers them with the thought that God will not forgive them their sins; still others fear that God will deprive them of all earthly goods and subsistence.
This triple manifestation of lack of faith estranges many people from God and immerses them in various forms of perdition.


The source of our lack of faith is our excessive conceit, i.e. when we think more of ourselves than of God, rely more on our own powers than on God�s help.
What is the reason for God allowing the destruction of such a great number of people, who are injured or killed through sorcery?
It is not surprising: lack of faith has become so widespread among the people that it merits punishment.
Many do not look for other doctors except sorcerers (extrasensorists), nor other pharmaceuticals except deviltry. God justly punishes us by the same means that we use to sin against Him.
As our faith and hope in God increase, so increase His mercy and benevolence to us.

www.holy-transfiguration.org...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Point is, even in the beginning of the Bible, it tells the faithful that knowledge is not to be sought, and is for God only. You would think that would start the red flags right there, but sadly, it doesn't for many....

Hmmm Gazrok, my Bible seems to disagree with you.


Proverbs 2
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom, and apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment, and lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
. . . .
10 When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you; understanding will keep you,

Seems to me that knowledge is to be saught and is actually encouraged.

Originally posted by Gazrok

I find it common for Christians to look at me in disgust when I seem to question their beliefs. I have been told several times that I am going to hell. This is by people who had no idea of whether or not I was religious. Just the act of questioning is damning for me? Now that cant be right. How can you not question things that you are told? Why would you just blindly believe something especially of this nature? I have my own opinions on why that is expected.

Religion wasn't created to be questioned. It was made to be obeyed. It is a tool of control. A questioning flock, is an uncontrolled one. Just look at the story of Adam and Eve. They ate from the "Tree of Knowledge" (later amended to the more clever Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). Point is, even in the beginning of the Bible, it tells the faithful that knowledge is not to be sought, and is for God only. You would think that would start the red flags right there, but sadly, it doesn't for many....

You speek about religion as something evil. Are laws evil? Is history evil? Is knowledge evil? Religion is always based uppon a law. It's the first step up the ladder to become rightious before God. Well, God dictated the first law for us, it was plain and simple. Eat whatever you find here, but not that thing, for if you do, you will have to die. It wasn't God who killed us, he simply stated that the fruit on that tree would kill them. It would be the same if I had a garden and one of the trees were lethally poisonous. I would say to my children: eat whatever fruit you find in the garden, but stay away from that poisonous tree I have planted in the middle of the garden, for it's fruit is venomous and will kill you. If they had later gone away and eaten from that tree because a neighbour said that I had been lying to them. Would it have been me or my neighbour who had killed them? Or did they kill themselves? Or was it the tree's fault? It was one thing that killed them: Spiritual adultary. Plain and simple.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

...Has never forsaken me.

That's the biggest advantage to being an open minded agnostic.

"God" grows with you.

Originally posted by Valhall
I am having a very difficult time trying to figure out which one of your gods forsook you...bein's you have rejected them.

I don't get it. What's your beef? You ridicule the Bible. You reject as the word of God. So who the hell forsook you?

It appears you have forsaken God and then decided to blame your decision on Him.

whatever.

No-body "forsook" me. I did not ridicule the bible. I am sorry that you take offense to obvious questions that deserve to be looked at. But then again. You will believe even at the expense of your own knowledge. You know what you will find if you question it.

Furthermore, I never said I do not believe in god.

When you get married, are you and your fiance' having a preacher/priest perform the wedding ceremony?

Hehe...in a way...the officiant is ordained, but is also a notary, etc. Remember, my fiance is Catholic (luckily a lax one, as Catholic weddings are more like a wake than a celebration, hehe.....) None of my vows include the word "God"... However, I'm cool with our eventual child being baptised, etc. (means a lot to her, and it's just a little water on the head to me....)

If god loves me so much, then there should be no problems with me asking these questions. There should be no problems with a person trying to learn about his world.

The problem occurs when people of faith attack those who question the things the believe. I never attacked anyone. I dont have a beef. I think someone who says I messed up (what I dont know) and then blamed it on someone (that I myself am not sure exists) is the one with the beef.

You should be accepting of my questions. Others were. Others offered help in finding answers that coincided with their faith.

That seems to happen more, ive also asked some questions regarding g.o.d. but never got answers, only screaming at me :] I guess if you dont have the answers and people keep asking then the only thing people can do is or scream or think, and thinking about certain things can be quite painfull......

Originally posted by jabb

There was a thread not to long ago on Noah's arc. Wondering if it was a true story. I have some issues with this. Noah�s ark is just a story that shows how that particular god loves everyone so much that he covers their world in water to drown them, when in reality they had no choice or guidanance to do anything different then they were doing

They knew what was right and what was wrong. At least Noah did. Why would the rest of the human race not know what they were doing.
Also, the bible says that during those days ther was a race of humans called, Nephilim, which were a mix between humans and "the sons of god", which i believe were aliens.
So there's a bunch of evil people and a mixed breed of humans that God never intended to be created. They #ed up and were punished. They deserved it. The earth deserves a punishment like that now.

[Edited on 09/28/03 by jabb]

If god is who we describe him, then he must have created the aliens too. He must love them too.

People deserving what we get when again, we just never had any choice in the matter (if god knows everything), is hardly representive of an all loving and forgiving god. Sounds like this god has traits of humans. Revenge, and spite might be two good example qualities to start with.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by Valhall

No-body "forsook" me. I did not ridicule the bible. I am sorry that you take offense to obvious questions that deserve to be looked at. But then again. You will believe even at the expense of your own knowledge. You know what you will find if you question it.

Furthermore, I never said I do not believe in god.

I'm sorry. Are you originating posts in your sleep? What do you mean nobody forsook you?

Look at the title on this thread? Did you pick that title to cause confusion? Or did you mean it? My comments were directed at the combination of that statement "My God has forsaken me" and your original post on your problems related to dealing with the Bible.

Could you provide some clarification on what the heck your having problems with because you have managed to completely confuse me.

Im not having problems. I am saying that no one who loved their own children would intentionally kill them in such a way as this god did. Jesus once said, "My god, why have you forsaken me?" The title of my thread refers to this. The act of god killing his own child. Not me.

Originally posted by Gazrok

When you get married, are you and your fiance' having a preacher/priest perform the wedding ceremony?

Hehe...in a way...the officiant is ordained, but is also a notary, etc. Remember, my fiance is Catholic (luckily a lax one, as Catholic weddings are more like a wake than a celebration, hehe.....) None of my vows include the word "God"...

However, I'm cool with our eventual child being baptised, etc. (means a lot to her, and it's just a little water on the head to me....)

Interesting. I see Christ in you Gazrok. Even if you don't believe in Him, you often seem to take other's views and perspectives into consideration. I respect and honor you for that. I hope that you continue living your life that way and that as you do you open yourself to receiving the message made for you.
Also, I congratulate you on your coming union. God Bless you and your marriage to be!

Peace,

+Jammer

Originally posted by Seapeople
If god loves me so much, then there should be no problems with me asking these questions. There should be no problems with a person trying to learn about his world.

The problem occurs when people of faith attack those who question the things the believe. I never attacked anyone. I dont have a beef. I think someone who says I messed up (what I dont know) and then blamed it on someone (that I myself am not sure exists) is the one with the beef.

You should be accepting of my questions. Others were. Others offered help in finding answers that coincided with their faith.

SeaPeople, IMHO, there is nothing wrong with questioning GOD. Please continue to do so, but do so honestly, with an open heart and allow GOD to reveal Himself to you. Look for the miracles in the small things like quantum mechanics and the glorious nature of the physical world. I personally can't help but be in Awe when I look at the world around me. Order from chaos...

Good luck in your searching.

Peace,

+Jammer