Black Caucus: Whites Not Allowed

Originally posted by LogansRun
do i blame anyone? no.

Did you read what I said?

Originally posted by LogansRun
but as a white person, you already had an advantage. you may never understand that, but you did.

More BS. How does this explain my current unemployment? (Not that I'm complaining)

Originally posted by LogansRun
i did too as i am a white man. and i understand that i had a better "leg up" than most people in black communities.

I'm glad you feel this way. I never did. I worked with people of all color. In fact, my old company laid me off and kept my black secretary (who had nothing to do). They won't lay her off because they know she'll cry discrimination. So she has a "leg up" over me.

Originally posted by LogansRun
this thread was about a black caucus that needs to remain black for the time being. people who are against this are not against it because a white man cannot join, but rather they all have their own prejudices or experiences that angers them with a minority group, perhaps even subconciously. this isn't about special treatment, its about repayment for centuries of institutionalized biggotry.

I never said I was against the black caucus. I said there needs to be a white caucus as well. If the black man gets one, so should the white man. Fair is fair.
Don't forget blacks have their own form of bigotry too.
It's called "I hate the white man." Not all subscribe to this, but many do.

Originally posted by rocknroll
I'm glad you feel this way. I never did. I worked with people of all color. In fact, my old company laid me off and kept my black secretary (who had nothing to do). They won't lay her off because they know she'll cry discrimination. So she has a "leg up" over me.

Alas your own biggotry and stereotyping is now revealed in your statement here. I bet you are so blind, you dont even know why i say this. did it ever occur to you that you were laid off due to the fact that the company had no need for you anymore? this has happened to me plentyof times. just because someone is black, you automatically assume that she was kept on because of her color, and that she would surely cry discrimination if she were to be laid off?

oh and by the way, i understand discrimination against gay people as well. you seen when i was younger, i worked in nightclubs. i first worked in a hip hop club. then when i got a bit older, i was hired at a mixed club:75% gay and roughly 25% straight clientelle. i had a man spit in my face one night calling me names not suitible to post here and quoting the bible saying i was going to hell because of his assumption that i was gay - which i am not. this is the same type of rationalle you display above - you assume that because she is black, she is not laid off. now do do you see how shortsighted that is?

Originally posted by rocknroll
I never said I was against the black caucus. I said there needs to be a white caucus as well. If the black man gets one, so should the white man. Fair is fair.
Don't forget blacks have their own form of bigotry too.
It's called "I hate the white man." Not all subscribe to this, but many do.

oh, you bet there is black on white racism - i dont think anyone is denying that. but honestly, answer me this. what PURPOSE would the white caucus serve? we already have a white caucus. it is called congress and our capitalist system which we live in.

Originally posted by rocknroll
[but many blacks portray the white man as evil
this is degrading me.....we degraded whites need a White Caucus

you and i both know that is total bs. you are in no way degraded and dont waste my time trying to convince me you are. most black people who regard white people as evil are most likely doing this because of a bad experience in thier lifetimes. many white people portray black people as evil too - not based on experience, but rather only on the way they look and an incredible ignorance.

Originally posted by rocknroll
I'm sick of the current black generation blaming their current problems on my white ancestors who didn't even move into this country until well after their slave ancestors had arrived.

your ignorance is shining through with this one. where exactly did your ancestors come from and when exactly did they arrive here? slavery ended just over 100 years ago - i bet good money your ancestors were here prior to that time. not every white persons ancestor is blamed for slavery, but most of our ancestors were alive here when slavery was still common practice and did nothing because it was the norm.

Originally posted by rocknroll
If you don't allow a White Caucus you are racist and discriminating.

no, i would be logical and practical as there is no need for the majority to have a caucus. the majorities rights are already guaranteed in a democratic republic. its called voting.

Originally posted by rocknroll

I don't agree, minorities are constantly attacking the majority.
I think the majority needs it's own special group.

i am starting to think talking to you is a complete waste of time and brain power. so by your logic - because they demand more representation and consideration for the condition they are treated and are forced to live under minorities are attacking the majority?? wow dude.

Originally posted by rocknroll
Let me ask you something....
In the USA, if the minorities eventually outnumber the white man, do you think for one instant they'll allow the white man a special caucus? I don't think so at all (that'd be racist...even though the white man would be the minority).

i think there is a good chance there would be, IF the white population did become the minority. see you already have them tried and convicted and treat them the way you ASSUME they would treat you - thus revealing your utter ignorance and intolorance in this matter. you are creating the lines of seperation in this above statement and it reaveals everyone elses intolorance who is against the idea of an all black caucus. in fact, i think that is the core reason for this debate. you are terrified of how you might be treated if you were the minority, so you make damn sure you treat them the way you think you would be treated. this is the worst form of stereotyping, and for a gay man that is sad.

So it's impossible for a white person to hate/dislike a black person based upon bad experiences and black people never hate/dislike white people based upon their skin color. Got it.

Originally posted by LogansRun

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Obviously the purpose of the black caucus is to give full attention and support of the black community and no one else or else the black caucus would not discriminate against white people.

So when there are no longer any white people in positions of power then racism will no longer exist? Is your proposal then to exclude whites from government altogether so they will no longer be in a position of power?

Did you even read any of my previous posts. I will say it again. Give it a generation or two. There are people still alive today who were alive before and during the civil rights movement. There are wounds that need to heal. Everyone needs to get the hell over themselves. White people aren't being discriminated - we have more representation than ANY other group in this country.

White people have more representation? Then why did I as a white person married to a black man have to fight for years just for the right to divorce him? Why was my ex allowed to stalk and physically assault me pre and post separation while his cop buddies and his buddies in the court system refused to allow me basic rights? Why did the judge refuse to allow me to even testify during court hearings because my now ex-husband informed the judge I was on my cycle and the judge ruled I was "too hormonal" to be credible witness even though I had bruises and physical injuries from the beating for which I was trying to press charges? Why did the ACLU refuse to talk to me when I was trying to get my rights I was supposed to have and then just tell me they don't get involved in domestic disputes and hang up on me as soon as they learned my then husband was black? Why did the NOW dismiss me over the phone saying I should have had an abortion then when I informed them I had a child with my abuser instead of being concerned that I was blatantly being discriminated against for being white and a woman? Why did I have to break court orders and sneak out of the mileage limits imposed on me by his judge buddy just to be able to find an attorney to represent me in court? The lawyers in town were on first name basis with my now ex and REFUSED to look after my best interest. Why was my now ex allowed to assault me in front of his cop buddies while his buddies enjoyed the show and congradulated him for 'teaching me a lesson'. When I had a temporary restraining order, why was he allowed to continue to stalk and assault me in front of the cops? Why did the judge say upon reading his letters to me describing how he was going to kill me & my baby and lick the blood up with his tongue that there was nothing wrong with a husband writing his wife a letter? Why did the judges keep refusing to give me a permanent restraining order even though I had been beaten so bad at one point I could barely walk and was temporarily paralyzed on my right side?

I was only 16 years old when the abuse started & he was a government employee. Where were my rights? Where were the special rights I was supposed to have as a white person I keep hearing about because I sure didn't have rights as a human being. Where were my daughter's rights when he peppersprayed her in the face when she was 5 1/2 months old? She is half white. Where were her rights as a human being? Why was he allowed to starve her and neglect her during his court forced visitation leaving her dehydrated with bloody diaper rashes? Why did the judge scold me for complaining about it & tell me if I didn't like it I should be a good wife and go back home to my husband where I belonged if my daughter and I have legal rights? Why was he allowed to neglect her to the point of hospitalization and no one cared but I?

Why are his cop buddies still allowed to track me down for him years later? Where are these rights I am supposed to have?

Where is my representation all these years as a white woman?

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
So it's impossible for a white person to hate/dislike a black person based upon bad experiences and black people never hate/dislike white people based upon their skin color. Got it.

nope, never said that and you missed the point completely. it is very possible for a white person to hate a black person based on experience. but we aren't talking about experiences here. we are talking about white people who hate black people based on the color of their skin having never met them nor have any idea what kind of person they are.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

White people have more representation? Then why did I as a white person married to a black man have to fight for years just for the right to divorce him? Why was my ex allowed to stalk and physically assault me pre and post separation while his cop buddies and his buddies in the court system refused to allow me basic rights?
Where is my representation all these years as a white woman?

first off, i am truly sorry for the experience with your ex. he sounds like a complete ahole. that being said, it has no bearing in this thread. his being an ahole has nothing to do with him being black. white people are aholes too. ther are white men who are abusive to their wives as well. unfortunately, you are talking about a personal experience. do you hate all black people based on your ex's actions, or just hate him? i am talking about white people who hate ALL black people - not based on an experience, rather just because of the color of their skin.

again, i am sorry for your experience, but womans rights is another issue alltogther and it deserves its own thread. you do raise a good point though. on a side note, womens rights have had almost a full century since the womans lib movement and great leaps and bounds have been made progress wise. women still face discrimination, however they aren't disproportionately living in poverty, or have funding cut to programs just because they are women. perhaps when as much time has passed since the civil rights movement, then we can reexamine the need for special circumstances based on minority.

Logan
It seems your arguement for a black caucus is entirely predicated on the horrible institution that was slavery. Do you have and end date in mind for this "special treatment" compensation? Are blacks the only ones to be compensated in this manor or are the native americans,latins,and chinese due this compensation as well?
It also seems your arguement against a "white caucus" consists of it is not logical or practical. That is some arguement. You would deny someone equal rights because it is not practical? How would it not be logical for white people to look out for white peoples interests as the black caucus looks out for blacks interests?

Originally posted by LogansRun
did it ever occur to you that you were laid off due to the fact that the company had no need for you anymore?

Exactly. I gave them stacks of catalogs and brochures to last them for years.
My secretary was a really cool black woman, who I really liked. During the last 2 months there they barely gave me anything to do, hence, she had absolutely nothing to do. I got laid off (with an awesome severance and reference), but they kept her. For what? She was my secretary? You can think what you want, but personally, they didn't let her go to avoid problems. This I know.

Originally posted by LogansRun
just because someone is black, you automatically assume that she was kept on because of her color, and that she would surely cry discrimination if she were to be laid off?

She might not have "cried", but the company has had other blacks "cry" lawsuit before. They are playing it safe now. This I know.

Originally posted by LogansRun
but honestly, answer me this. what PURPOSE would the white caucus serve? we already have a white caucus. it is called congress and our capitalist system which we live in.

A White Caucus would serve the needs of whites and only whites.
What's wrong with that? Black's have their caucus (excluding whites).
The Black Caucus won't allow a white member in.
Congress has black members, as well as other nationalities.
What you call the White Caucus (congress) allows other ethnicities in (no discrimination).
So, why not a White Caucus, that excludes anyone who isn't 100% caucasion?
Again, fair is fair.
Why would a black man freak out about that?

Oh, I get it, if you're black it's, "Do as I say, but don't do as I do."

Originally posted by LogansRun
where exactly did your ancestors come from and when exactly did they arrive here?

Ireland, Hungary, Germany....off the boats between 1880-1915.
Well after 1865 when the slaves were freed. I owe the black man nothing.

Originally posted by LogansRun
because they demand more representation and consideration for the condition they are treated and are forced to live under minorities are attacking the majority??

Sorry, nobody gets special treatment in this world. Life is a struggle for us all.....black or white. Nobody's forcing anybody to live any way. You get out of this world what you put into it. Many blacks succeed and rise above the poverty they were born into. How do you explain this?

Anybody can make a dream happen, they just have to go for it......ask any successful person, of any color.

the people in this country who need to understand that are the ones intentionally setting themselves apart. black only universities, black only fraternities and sororities, black only clubs, black only television stations, black only awards programs, black ms. america, etc, etc.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Christains don't join Jewish Synagogues, and Muslims don't join Christain churches. The "Boys Club" was for boys and the "Girl Scouts" for girls.

I think you are making much ado about nothing.


[edit on 28-1-2007 by Siren]

Originally posted by Siren

the people in this country who need to understand that are the ones intentionally setting themselves apart. black only universities, black only fraternities and sororities, black only clubs, black only television stations, black only awards programs, black ms. america, etc, etc.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Christains don't join Jewish Synagogues, and Muslims don't join Christain churches. The "Boys Club" was for boys and the "Girl Scouts" for girls.

I think you are making much ado about nothing.

Exactly! It's cool with me.
So, why not a White Caucus, white only university, white only fraternities and sorotities, white only clubs, white only television stations, white only awards programs, white ms. america, etc, etc.........
What's the problem? Why would anyone object to this?
If you do, you must be racist against white people.

Originally posted by rocknroll

Exactly! It's cool with me.
So, why not a White Caucus, white only university, white only fraternities and sorotities, white only clubs, white only television stations, white only awards programs, white ms. america, etc, etc.........
What's the problem? Why would anyone object to this?
If you do, you must be racist against white people.

this is my last post in this thread as to continue is pointless. white people weren't enslaved. the majority of white people dont live in poverty. white people never needed a civil rights movement - they were never oppressed. there were never any segregation laws toward white people or any other minority group for that matter. the white only drinking fountains were instituted by white people to keep black people separate. white people never got ripped from their homes at night by dozens of white robbed men and hung in a tree simply because of the color of their skin. white people dont have crosses bured in their yards because of the color of their skin. white people never had to live as a minority in a country that used to enslave them then set them free only to be second class citizens.

i end this debate by saying that you can believe what you will. i highly doubt you ever read my posts through, or even kept an open mind as you were too concerned about picking one sentence out to attack to your advantage.

fact - the percentage of black people in poverty dwarf those of the other racial groups in this country. they are disproportionately poor and undereducated. not enough is being done to even out the numbers. everything that is being done, is decried as special treatment by people who have their own hate in their hearts to deal with. it is true that we all have suffering in our lives, however some suffer a hell of a lot more.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Logan
It seems your arguement for a black caucus is entirely predicated on the horrible institution that was slavery. Do you have and end date in mind for this "special treatment" compensation?

the mistreatment of blacks didn't end when slavery ended. seperate but equal was institutionalized hate until the late 60's. we can set an end date when the majority of black people arent undereducated and living in poverty.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Are blacks the only ones to be compensated in this manor or are the native americans,latins,and chinese due this compensation as well?

not at all, and i never said that. unfortunately, this is a thread about the black caucus, not native americans, latinos, or the chinese - they are for another thread. my views toward those groups are no different than that of this thread. there should be a native american caucus, and a latino caucus - especially since so many do the jobs that most americans wouldnt want to - again, this is for another thread.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
It also seems your arguement against a "white caucus" consists of it is not logical or practical. That is some arguement. You would deny someone equal rights because it is not practical? How would it not be logical for white people to look out for white peoples interests as the black caucus looks out for blacks interests?

again, there is no need for a white caucus as the laws and society we reside in are the work of white men whom at the time owned slaves. the purpose of the caucus is to ensure people who dont have a majority still ensure they receive the resources they need to thrive in society.

i never said that i would deny someone equal rights because it isn't practicle. what you completely miss is that the black caucus is to insure THEY have equal rights with the rest of society. what "white people interests" do you think need to be looked out for? are the majority of people living in run down areas of town white? are the majority of people who have social funding cut, and are disroportionately uneducated white? what interests exactly do you need fought for you? it just amazes me that people can honestly say that because black people have their own caucus, white people should too. why are so many white people afraid of the black community getting ahead???

I am not bitter against blacks, I am against the double standard. This falls into the same as blakc colleges, black only scholarships, black only schools for cultural reasons. How about the American Indian. Now he had it bad. And as far as stating that the Irish did not have a hard time at it, study your history. An here is another good one for you...

www.americancivilwar.com...

Seems that freed slaves had slaves. Now isn't that a kick in the mouth. Also, read the article and learn that it was less than 1% of the population that had slaves. It was a tradgedy in many cases. but read up on the facts.

Originally posted by LogansRun
white people weren't enslaved.

So what you're saying is we should live in the past. You want blacks to hold a grudge for the sins of our white forefathers?

Originally posted by LogansRun
the majority of white people dont live in poverty.

But many do. Should they be treated any differently than poor blacks?
In white society there's a nasty stigma attached to you if you're constantly on welfare or food stamps. It's called a "loser".

Originally posted by LogansRun
white people never needed a civil rights movement - they were never oppressed.

This is true. But this is in the past. What relevance does that have to do with the present? We're all equal, right? Or no?

Originally posted by LogansRun
there were never any segregation laws toward white people or any other minority group for that matter. the white only drinking fountains were instituted by white people to keep black people separate.

But this is in the past also. The laws have changed. Remember it, learn, move on.
So what you're saying is I still have to pay for things that people I didn't even know, did to eachother? When will the grudge end?

Originally posted by LogansRun
white people never got ripped from their homes at night by dozens of white robbed men and hung in a tree simply because of the color of their skin.

Yeah, and now it's reversed.
Black on white crime far outweighs white on black crime in the present. Choke on these Federal statistics:
www.racismeantiblanc.bizland.com...

More reasons why a White Caucus is needed:
findarticles.com...

Originally posted by LogansRun
white people never had to live as a minority in a country that used to enslave them then set them free only to be second class citizens.

You know the Jews were oppressed slaves at one point in time too. They rose above this though. In fact, many reside in high places, with great power, success and wealth. Slaughtering 6 million of them in Nazi Germany didn't stop them from achieving their dreams and goals. They were minorities too.

Originally posted by LogansRun
i highly doubt you ever read my posts through, or even kept an open mind as you were too concerned about picking one sentence out to attack to your advantage.

I have an open mind. That's why I think a White Caucus is a good idea. We need protective rights too.

Originally posted by LogansRun
they are disproportionately poor and undereducated.

Subject for another thread....

Originally posted by LogansRun
not enough is being done to even out the numbers.

Tell my taxes that.

Originally posted by LogansRun
everything that is being done, is decried as special treatment by people who have their own hate in their hearts to deal with.

You take an unemployed, poor, inner city "black" couple. The woman gets pregnant, goes to the hospital, has a baby. She doesn't pay a thing. States assistance pays for it. She has a her baby for free.
You take an unemployed, poor, inner city "white" couple. The woman gets pregnant, goes to the hospital, has a baby. She goes home and gets a bill!

This is wrong. And my taxes are tired of paying for it.

Text we can set an end date when the majority of black people arent undereducated and living in poverty

Everyone in America is given the right to an education. The government can not do the work for them. Anyone "undereducated" in this country has noone to blame but themselves.
The same logic applies to standard of living. The government will provide some benifits to the poor. If you want to rise above poverty you will have to work for it.
Logan you speak about slavery and segregation as if you were there to experience it. Black people as a whole will never "get ahead" if they use the past as crutch and a scapegoat.
In reference to this thread the plight of the black people has nothing to do with the black caucus not allowing non black membership. No matter how you look at it not allowing non black members is wrong. Were the roles reversed it would be looked at as an act of blatent raceism. You can sugarcoat it how ever you like but excuding someone on the basis of race is raceism.

rocknroll

You take an unemployed, poor, inner city "black" couple. The woman gets pregnant, goes to the hospital, has a baby. She doesn't pay a thing. States assistance pays for it. She has a her baby for free.

You take an unemployed, poor, inner city "white" couple. The woman gets pregnant, goes to the hospital, has a baby. She goes home and gets a bill!

This is wrong. And my taxes are tired of paying for it.

That's nonsense. Almost all of the welfare recipients in my area are white. We have a very small black population, maybe two or three percent, so obviously there are a lot more whites on the government teat. Nobody denies them assistance because of the color of their skin.

White families, black families, hispanic families, chinese families, and on and on, will not be denied assistance simply because of the color of their skin. If they can prove need, they are in the same boat with the rest of the folks vying for handouts.

Haven't we got enough problems in this country without fighting amongst ourselves? Don't y'all know the divide and conquer doctrine is in effect?

The longer poor whites and poor blacks (or poor blacks and poor hispanics for that matter) expend their energy butting heads and fighting over scraps, the longer rich men will prosper at our expense. Wake up!

It's not about white and black, it's about rich and poor, always has been...

White servants and black servants suffered equally in this country for years, until the masters grew so afraid of the great teeming mass of peasants, that they plotted to divide them along racial lines by offering incentives to whites, and proclaiming them superior in all ways to the blacks. It worked! We fell for it!

Bought with table leavings and spare corn, the white servants were turned against their black fellows, and of course the same favors that ignited feelings of superiority in poor whites and catered to their desperation, also created envy and anger in their black counterparts. Wealthy men in this country have always realized the wisdom of the old adage, divide and conquer.

If the poor, white and black alike, had realized the manipulation for what it was, and fought back against the system that was so oppressive, we would be living in a very different country today. Some did, and they fought alongside one another without regard for race or nationality. Why can't we follow their example?

Hell, the same trick turned poor white men against indians, despite the fact that those two groups had more in common with each other than either had in common with the elite!

It's such an old story, how do people remain ignorant of it?



[edit on 29-1-2007 by WyrdeOne]