Unabridged YouTube: “Undercover Mosque” Expose Online

'Kafir' in the book of the Qur'an simply defines as disbeliever in Allah, G-d, Jehovah.

The Qur'an is meant to be a book of peace, and it even states in the front of my copy of the Qur'an that Judaism, Christianity, Hindi, Buddhism are different aspects of the same religion, which teach the submission to the will of G-d and make peace with all His people. The Qur'an according to my copy in the introduction was written to coexist with the existing religious texts. As with the Talmud, the Holy Bible, the Qur'an is also a book of Divine revelation. If these people read and adhere to the words of the Qur'an they would not teach hate, or violence, especially against other worshippers of G-d.

I love reading my copy of the Qur'an along with the Holy Bible, and the Talmud as I recognise they are the words handed down by G-d to His people.

I love my Muslim brothers and sisters, as I do my Jewish and Christian brothers and sisters.

I wear modest clothes, although my school photo which is my avatar, wasn't my choice of garment, but the schools. I will be the first to admit that I was uncomfortable in that form of dress.

On one other occassion did I have a photograph similiar and it was my favourite photograph as two weeks before I was deemed clinically dead.

For the most part, I believe in modest form of clothing and I am faithful to my husband. For an imam to tell me that I should be beaten for not wearing the hajib goes against the Qur'an which says us women should be revered, and treated as equal, for G-d made us that way.

In some Christian and Jewish organisations, like with some sects of Islam women are demeanered and degraded. Yet, all three Holy books teach that us women are created spiritually equal and must be loved and respected by our spouses.

The Qur'an teaches forgiveness and love, as does the Talmud and the Bible. So why do religious leaders want us to shed one another's blood and turn on each other in hatred when we all serve under the One True G-d regardless, what name He goes by.

To me, to shed the blood of another in the name of G-d, is blasphemous. To slaughter somebody, who shares the same love of G-d is barbaric.

I acknowledge the Imams who preach the true words of the Qur'an and shame on them that teach hatred and violence of all G-d's children.

Im convinced nobidy really wants to fix anything. They all like bitching about it too much. The graudual and assured collapse of Western society is the same way. We could stop it by not giving militants incentives to come into our countries but oh, thats discrimination. We're PC bull#ting ourselves right out of existance.

Thisguy, you hit the nail on the head right there. I must admit ive skipped a few posts and im not sure where you're from but the UK is absolutely ridiculously PC! We are scared of making anyone feel out of place and we have to compromise our traditions to make the newcomers feel welcome.. ie not allowing xmas decorations to say merry xmas. They now have to say 'Seasons Greetings'. Pathetic!

I have known many muslims coming from a multi-cultural community and many of them are decent people but even where i live there are the racist ones that openly dont like black or white people.

In my opinion if ANYONE of ANY race, religion or cultural background wants to live in the UK, they must live by our laws and rules, respect our tradition and culture, and at least TRY to fit in.

We know that these 'imams' exist in the UK, we moniter them, survey them but dont do anything about them for fear of causing rifts in our foreign relationships. It makes me furious to think that the government of my country is so laid back about the situation.

It's about time some toes got stepped on and some people got what they deserved, letting immigrants in willy nilly is not the way forward. We are an island for goodness sakes, how hard can it be to stop people coming in?! Start deporting ANYONE who is known to harbour, advertise, condone or even think about killing Innocent British citizens just for the way we live our lives.

They also exst as british citizens and when they are found they should be imediately detained and imprisoned for national security. It would make wannabe terrorists think twice. I know this wouldnt be a solution but it would be a start.

Originally posted by DeMitsuko
i didnt say the west, i said UK or france. and i think israel will continue to exist long after the first muslim PM will be elected in UK.

...Something that is highly unlikely to happen in Israel.

Thanks for the advice DeMitsuko, but you seem to have problems of your own in "Eretz Yisrael".

New party urges non-Jews' expulsion
By Khalid Amayreh

Dozens of right-wing Israeli leaders have announced the creation of a new political party which founders say will be dedicated to the expulsion of millions of Muslims and Christians from Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories.

The right-wing group wants to expel Christians and Muslims

The party was launched in Jerusalem on Saturday night.

Taking part in the ceremony were many leaders of the officially outlawed but effectively tolerated Kach group such as Baruch Marzel and Hen Ben Elyahu.

Kach is a violent Jewish militia made up of Jewish activists who reject democracy and advocate the expulsion or, if necessary, annihilation of Arabs from what they call Eretz Yisrael (Land of Israel).

According to some Jewish religious authorities, Eretz Yisrael encompasses mandatory Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Cyprus, and parts of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Turkey.

Since the outbreak of the second Palestinian intifada or uprising four years ago, Kach terrorists have killed scores of Arab civilians.

Those caught by the Israeli authorities usually received symbolic or light prison sentences. The bulk of the perpetrators are allowed to remain at large.

Source

Now where have I heard this next phrase before?

Expulsion

According to Ben Elyaho, a co-founder of the new party, the expulsion of non-Jews from Israel would "resolve all of Israel's political, economic and social problems".

Ah yes, now I remember!


Expulsion

According to Adolf Hitler, a prolific speaker of the recently founded German Workers Party, the expulsion of Jews from Germany would "resolve all of Germany´s political, economic and social problems".

I feel a new and thorougly researched thread about the dangers of Israel past and present coming up.

Originally posted by Truth4hire
...Something that is highly unlikely to happen in Israel.

Thanks for the advice DeMitsuko, but you seem to have problems of your own in "Eretz Yisrael".

what does the problams in israel got to do with this thread? sometimes i feel people will attack israel on the basis of anything...

Originally posted by Truth4hire
I feel a new and thorougly researched thread about the dangers of Israel past and present coming up.

not only that you quote al jazeera but the article is 3 years old and clearly anti-israeli.
and what the heck does it have to do with anything? did i said israel didnt have problams? what, you just went to al jazeera web site and searched "israel" and "problams" just to tackle me here? pathetic.

Your the one who sat there and said (words to the effect of)

"You guys are going to be screwed while us in "Israel" are perfectly safe..."


If you didn't want to discuss Israel or cannot handle criticism, then why bring the subject up? God knows Israel is in a worse state than Europe ever will be....

Double post...

[edit on 19/1/07 by stumason]

I always have mixed feelings about these kind of expose`s whenever they're aired. On the one hand there is the concern that the programme could bring about fear mongering and harden suspicion and predjudice against the muslim community, on the other hand, even though I believe the vast majority of mosques and muslims who attend them do not agree with or propogate this kind of hateful ideology in any way, a part of me believes it's a good thing to flag up these issues and make everyone aware, muslim and non muslim alike, of the threat these people pose.

Despite my earlier post's (which were more to do with immigration and population spread), I did see this programme and was concerned.

Namely because the organisations in the programme maintain a front of moderation and intergration, but behind closed doors they say the opposite. These were well known, national Muslim organisations, which is what caught my eye.

Then, to top it all off, if any of them are confronted about what they have said on camera, they deny it or say they were quoted out of context! How anyone can quote "Kill the non-believers" out of context is beyond me...

The sheer, bloody cheek of it to lie until your blue in the face when caught out...

Originally posted by iqonx
An imam is nothing special. Any person can be a imam and you dont need any qualifications or schooling to be called a imam. All you need to do is open a mosque and you automatically become a imam of the mosque and can teach anything you want.

The is no licencing system or regulation under islamic systems. Any person can teach what they want and when they want. No mosques are connected to each other. All of the mosques are independant.

iqonx... you seem to have a pretty good handle on this and seem to have direct experience. Something in the film, however, contradicts what you say here. The statement from the Kingdom of SA says that some imams were brought back to SA for re-education because of their intolerant preachings and some were dismissed. That seems to idicate that there is, in fact, some form of interconnection, regulation and that imams are not free to preach anything they want as you state. How do you explain this seeming contradiction?

Originally posted by jtma508

iqonx... you seem to have a pretty good handle on this and seem to have direct experience. Something in the film, however, contradicts what you say here. The statement from the Kingdom of SA says that some imams were brought back to SA for re-education because of their intolerant preachings and some were dismissed. That seems to idicate that there is, in fact, some form of interconnection, regulation and that imams are not free to preach anything they want as you state. How do you explain this seeming contradiction?

Mosques are not controlled by anybody unless a 3rd party funds them in which case the mosque would then be directly under there control but they still wont control the contents of what is spoken inside the mosque although they may have certain rules.

Also everybody knows that Saudi Arabia actually has been funding lots of mosques around the world and has been sending teachers to them.

Saudi Arabia offers either free courses to learn about islam to muslims from all countries. But they also have there own imams which they send to other countries to preach.

But the actual overall structure of islamic mosques is in independant. Only the Saudi's actually fund mosque contruction to export there sect of islam. Even when saudi arabia funds the mosque they still have no connection themselves to other mosques they just export the whabbi teachings.

The reason why some where probably called back was becuase they where either offered free re-education from different schools within Saud or they where part of the scholarly system in the country.

Although a person does not require special trainning or education to open a mosque or teach islam there are schools which teach imams about religon and how to be imams and every group has one eg.. sufi, whabbi, sulafi, hanafi etc... But once the people leave the schools and open there own mosques they have no connection to those schools and are free to teach whatever they want becuase the schools will not moniter there mosuqes becuase all mosques are unmonitered. Religous schools only teach and once a person leaves the relationship is automaticlly broken.

These guys where probably from Saudi schools and where called back but once again when they leave they will no longer be connected to any school and can teach what ever they want when they open there new mosques.

Islamic law is generated from 3 sources which are Quran + Hadeeth + Fatwa and becuase of this people need to understand that only quran is static while hadeeths and fatwas(opinion) are left upto the interpretation of individual muslims that why there are so many contradictions between different muslims groups. Once these guys are on there own they are free to make up as many fatwas as they like. Schools can not teach people fatwas becuase those are opinion.

i Hope that helps. It's complex. But if you ever went to a mosque you would understand better how the overall system works. And by the way most imams that are in mosques have no trainning and have never been to islamic schools.

Originally posted by DeMitsuko
someday this will blow up in your faces. and ill sit here in israel with my friends and we all gonna be like: "told you so!".

I am afraid you won't, my dear chap, because if, according to your prediction, someday the rise in angry, militant Islam will blow up in our faces, it will have blown up in yours too.

So it's no use you trying to feel smug about it.

If I were you, I would be distinctly worried if your prediction came true.

Originally posted by DeMitsukoi predict that in less then 30 years major civil war will break in either UK or france... good luck.

If it does, and it involves Militant Islam, as in angry muslims angered by years upon years of US foreign policy to the extent they feel the need to take up arms, it won't be just a localised issue of the UK and France, because what is fuelling militant Islam is anger at an regional and international issue.

So don't get too comftable looking on.

Originally posted by GT100FV
Wahabbism is a significant threat to rational thought.

It seems the 'Deobandi' attitude is just as bad.
A report from the well respected British broadsheet newspaper the Times seems to suggest that 'fifty' per cent of British mosques are now under this fanatic extremist deobandi hardline control:

Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to “shed blood” for Allah, an investigation by The Times has found.

Riyadh ul Haq, who supports armed jihad and preaches contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus, is in line to become the spiritual leader of the Deobandi sect in Britain. The ultra-conservative movement, which gave birth to the Taleban in Afghanistan, now runs more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, according to a police report seen by The Times.

Seventeen of Britain’s 26 Islamic seminaries are run by Deobandis and they produce 80 per cent of home-trained Muslim clerics. Many had their studies funded by local education authority grants. The sect, which has significant representation on the Muslim Council of Britain, is at its strongest in the towns and cities of the Midlands and northern England.

Figures supplied to The Times by the Lancashire Council of Mosques reveal that 59 of the 75 mosques in five towns – Blackburn, Bolton, Preston, Oldham and Burnley – are Deobandi-run.

A commentator on religious radicalism in Pakistan, where Deobandis wield significant political influence, told The Times that “blind ignorance” on the part of the Government in Britain had allowed the Deobandis to become the dominant voice of Islam in Britain’s mosques.

Khaled Ahmed said: “The UK has been ruined by the puritanism of the Deobandis. You’ve allowed the takeover of the mosques. You can’t run multiculturalism like that, because that’s a way of destroying yourself. In Britain, the Deobandi message has become even more extreme than it is in Pakistan. It’s mind-boggling.”

www.timesonline.co.uk...

reply to post by rachel07


kafir - derogation, disparagement, depreciation - a communication that belittles somebody or something
www.thefreedictionary.com...

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]