Million doller question...

Wow Dragonlike thats is a really nice and unique theory Did you come up with that yourself? I really like it.

It came from God. Evolution is the biggest and most obviously impossibility ever devised by man.

Originally posted by thexsword
It came from God. Evolution is the biggest and most obviously impossibility ever devised by man.

Thats nice, but what does evolution have to do with the topic? This is about the creation of the universe. Please start a new topic regarding your beliefs so we can kindly discuss there, with evidence, how you opinion may be wrong.

Well, either God created the universe, or it came from nother and evolved. So either a god (higher being) created it, or it came out of evolution. So if evolution has nothing to do with this subject, then a god created it, and then the question is answered.

Dragonlike - I am not bashing your theory, but how is there no material, and then thought created atoms (material). It seems just like the big bang theory, nothing turned into something.

I feel that no matter how far you go back in time, something must have created something. Something can't come from nothing.

[edit on 15-1-2007 by thexsword]

Originally posted by thexsword
Well, either God created the universe, or it came from nother and evolved. So either a god (higher being) created it, or it came out of evolution.

I think somebody needs to go back and learn what evolution actually is.

So if evolution has nothing to do with this subject, then a god created it, and then the question is answered.

Nope, because that doesn't explain how God was created, since God is part of 'everything'

Anyway, onto my thoughts...

The way I see it, humans can never understand the answer to this question, because the human brain was developed to cope with how our environment is. To us, an open space is filled with 'nothing' because we were not built to understand that an open space is actual full of atoms. We do not think on the molecular level. You say what is 'outside' the universe when the concept of 'outside' is a trait of our physical universe which may not apply to anything else. Therefor it is an absolutely insane leap to suggest we can ever grasp the actual concept of nothingness.

I don't think humans are capable of understanding what was there before and what is 'outside', at least not yet.

Edit - On a side note I believe our incapability to understand is what gave birth to religion. Attempts to rationalize and understand the existance of everything.

[edit on 15-1-2007 by CaptainLazy]

I actually never once said what evolution was, so what would make you think I don't know what it is. Since you know this theory so well, why don't you tell me.

As for your theory, I agree with you 100% and think that it is the best we have on this thread so far. The only difference in yours and mine, I believe that we were created to not have the brain compacity to comprehend God and our creation beyond what he has shown us.

The real question that most people stumble on is how can there be an entity without a beginning, an eternal living singularity, the answer is simple yet the mind
fails to fathom it, it cant comprehend it's raw and simple truth, it has to be possible,
you understand there has to be an entity that is eternal, there is no way round that, there can never have been a beginning to an ultimate consciousness, that my friends is impossible, that single entity of course is none other than GOD.

This is the simple truth.

There is no such thing as god. We are god. all part of the same infinite consiousnous. God is a what we call it beecause the word symbolizes something very hard to understand. as far as our universe is concerned. our universe is finite. however the place in which it resides is infinite. our universe resides on what is called a euchlidean plane. imagine an infinite row of pure pulsating energy fields. side by side with little space between. now 2 of these waving pulsating energy fields being close together are at some point going to touch. and when they do. we have a "big bang". simply the result of 2 enormous energies slamming into eachother. the rest is what we call history... this all of course is simply on OUR level of existence.

Atoms are not material.
Unless you have scientifically prooved it and razed down all the known theories. Give me some evidence to believe you. Schrondiger was the most recent physics scientist that prooved that atoms are not material just wave, force
Forces are opposite and attractive depending on the quantum (+/-).

By the way, have you prooved the ''big bang'' theory or just make asssumptions. I am asking that many prestigeous scientist, none to speak the truth, haven't proved ''big bang'' is the only ultimate theory ofcreation. Becouse such theories are to be earnt n schools doesn't mean absulute that it is right. Schools only learn us a way to move our thought.

Peace

God couldn't have created the Universe...as He/She/It doesn't exist.,except as a concept to symbolise our lack of understanding.,as did the pantheon of Gods that preceded our restructured modern version.

Why can't our Universe be as a speck of dust and at the very edge,where the universe ends...is the giants thumbnail.

Originally posted by Cuhail
To the Big Bangers: What was there 5 minutes before the Big Bang?

Maybe if space didn't exist then neither did time? A bit mind-boggling to think about lol I can't really explain it

Originally posted by Sopwith
Why can't our Universe be as a speck of dust and at the very edge,where the universe ends...is the giants thumbnail.

And the giant is in his own universe which is just a speck of dust in another giant's thumbnail, it could go on forever! Until in one of the universes someone hoovers up the speck of dust that contains all the universes that go down to our one. Then we're screwed

ive no idea how to answer these questions, there's so many paradoxes involved with every theory. However I do get the feeling (because of the paradoxes everywhere we turn) that we know absolutely nothing and probably never will. Scientists make me cringe sometimes with their arrogance, as if they are just one step away from knowing everything. Mind you, same goes for religious people. I believe that none of the theories we come up with are anything remotely true.

Thinking about these questions makes my brain melt, id love to know though.

sooooo maybe theres a black hole at the center of the universe before the big bang right? and maybe they just arent right about what was here before us right? well the bh spends lots of time gobbling up everything in that 'verse and when it reaches a critical point BOOM!

or mabye its 5am and i need sleep..........

I personaly lean towards the following scenario:

Time is nothing more then a measurement we use, the idea of timing having a beginning and an end is false. Its a general belief because our lives have a start and an end, eventhough when you look at it from a matter perspective, we exist before we are born as basic matter that gets consimed by a human and formed into an organic being and when we die, we don't cease to exist, our matter is simply reintegrated into the matter pool of the earth.

About the big bang, most likely the universe is in an everlasting cycle of explosion/implossion in the multiverse. There were big bangs before ours and there will be big bangs in the future. By the time that happens, we'll be long gone though.

About what sparked the big bang, If you check out branes in string theory, it has a pritty nice explination for what could've happend. Lookup "Nova - The Elegant Universe" on google to watch the Nova documentary about the entire strings concept.

And lastly, untill we have a better understanding of the world around us and our own universe, I think its a bit of a waste of time to think about how the universe started and how it will end, the timescale this happens on is so way out of our league that when you look at it from a universal perspective, we don't matter at all.

I think its a bit of a waste of time to think about how the universe started and how it will end, the timescale this happens on is so way out of our league that when you look at it from a universal perspective, we don't matter at all.

I agree hand and foot, to learn a thing, even better, to realise its existence you need to study it from a close distance. Sometimes this is not enough. Though look at the bright side, making theories on how possibly the universe may have come into be is not totally a waste of time. Better said, substracting from other serious things. To make theories is a way to practise your imagination.

Conciousness=memory+logic+imagination

Today we use more logic (practical sciences) and our imagination.
The elder years people used to use their memory to get all these epics off.
It is nowadays the period that we have neglected our memory and use:
-telephone catalogs
-mobiles
-pc
-notepads
-...
to install this wealth of information

Waiting to hear for more theories

Dragon

Originally posted by Cuhail

Cuda,
Yeah, Amen (Puns regarding Atheists, pg 223

) on the "Universal Kid Shutter-upper" being God did it. Being raised Catholic and being 100% Irish, any questions to Ma usually resulted in:

BECAUSE GOD DID IT!!! NOW MAKE ME A MARTINI!

(Ma was tired by now, I was her 8th kid)

I'm not an Atheist, but, I seem to be reaching more and more towards Agnostic every day. (or, maybe thats my political affiliation)

Well no, becasue your arm would have been torn off when you stuck your arm out of the window long before you could fire the gun

Well, duh, I'd use TWO hands!!!

Cuhail

Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?

No other creature that asks and no other creature that drinks failing the answer.

Hence the global conclusion - sentience is a mutation from outer space.

Why not?

What is nothing? If there were nothing, what would nothing be? Hmmm.....

I am a Christian and as such I believe that much of what we wonder about is not by chance. Sure the big bang and other scientific theories make sense but then again they have to for the sake of science.

The odds against us being here are astronomical! The earth being just the right distance from a star just the right size to provide heat and energy and not fry us. There are so many other against the odds components to this scenario and it just strengthens my Faith.

If I am wrong I can tell you that I will have no regrets for my belief in the end. Call me what you will but I have no difficulty living with myself.

Oh, and watching M*A*S*H* reruns too....I would watch them all day if they were on.

This must be the most dificult question that anyone can ask and also the most interesting topic by far! I really believe there is a beginning and end for everything including time. Time is probably a universal concept and dimension in that it is specific to each universe assuming we believe in the multiverse.

According to some scientists, universes are created from black holes that consume matter including light to a critical point which then creates or transforms itself into a white hole, or big bang as some would call it. Hence, a new baby universe is born with its own four dimensions and will expand until it too reaches its own critical point. Look at it as a cycle...where one universe destroys itself(implodes) and transforms its energy(explodes) into another universe.

I really do believe in the evolution of everything including the evolution of the mulitverse however since everything has a beginning and an end we must also put GOD into the equation! Something creates something and NOT nothing creates something. The last phrase sounds very absurd to me and to most logical people!

Just a question for you agnostic scientists: Do you ever go to church and/or do you ever pray for yourself or others when your life is not going all that well? By the way, I am not all that religious myself as compared to other people but I still believe in God at least as the initial creator of all if not the controller of all!

Disclaimer: This is just my bag of beliefs and I don't expect or seek endorsement from anyone!

Cuhail's Zen Moment of Clarity:


"We are all just ingredients in the Soup of Life, boiling away and blending to create the Perfect Recipe.

Ohhhhhm - madi-padwei
Ohhhhhm - madi-padwei
Ohhhhhm - madi-padwei


Thank you, come again!

C

The answer is too complex for 'us' (humans) to understand.

We are too primitive to be able to grasp what the universe is and how it exisits.

Since humans have a finite amount of time (at least the bodies do) we view everything as having a start and finish (birth and death).

Maybe the universe just 'is', there was no beginning and there is no ending, it's just something we can not understand yet....if ever.