The minimum wage conspiracy

Here they go again. Politicians spin an issue and play on peoples' feelings and spit in the face of logic.

The "minimum" wage is a joke yet it is one of those issues that libs and soft-spined conservatives love to trumpet in soundbites and disinformation.

Note the following:
www.pacificresearch.org...

and another

The most startling finding of the report is that the largest negative effects of a minimum wage increase are felt by minimum wage workers

Ever wonder why unions are always supporting minimum wage hikes even though no union contracts are written so workers make minimum wage?
Its because that fat union slob sitting on his ass, reading the paper all day making $30.00/ hour has his contract based upon the current minimum wage. (and I've worked in a union shop in the past so I have 1st hand experience of what goes on)

The impacts on union workers in the lowest-wage category are significantly different that those of non-union workers in the same wage category. Union workers see wage gains double that of non-union workers, suggesting that union contracts are written to adjust with any minimum wage increase.

Don't believe the hype. This hurts those the libs pretend it helps and it's just one more example of over-control by Big Brother.

source for quotes:
www.imakenews.com...,0,w

[edit on 10-1-2007 by Apoc]

That is what the fraud of the "Minimum Wage" is. Go ahead, pick a number... Make the minimum wage $20 an hour... Guess what, inflation and the cost of living will skyrocket, and those making minimum wage will be no closer to a "Living Wage" than they are now. Other than part time, students, retired elderly (I mention this in the case of "get out of the house" workers) working at entry level jobs, who actually gets paid minimum wage?

posted by Apoc

Here they go again. Politicians spin an issue and play on peoples' feelings and spit in the face of logic. The "minimum" wage is a joke yet it is one of those issues that libs and soft-spined conservatives love to trumpet in sound bites and disinformation. Don't believe the hype. This hurts those the libs pretend it helps and it's just one more example of over-control by Big Brother. [Edited by Don W]

Au contraire! Mr A. A rising tide floats all ships. By making the wage floor level around the US of A, it effects everyone the same way at the same time. Too much or too little, it is fair and equal! Which is more than you can say for today's minimum wage.

The first minimum wage was enacted in 1935, at 25 cents an hour. The exact same arguments used today were first used then. The arguments were not true then and they are not true today. Wages amount to about 20% of the retail price of goods and services. A raise in the current wage of $5.15 to $7.25 in 2009, is $2.10 over the 2 year period. That is a 40% increase. Larger than usual, but this is the longest time between raises - 9 years. On the numbers only, if all else remained the same, this means wages would rise from 20% of output to 28% of output.

Such increases are expected to be accompanied by increases in productivity which would neutralize much of any adverse impact in the final retail cost.

So a $2.49 Whopper meal would cost you $2.69.

Will BK go belly-up?



[edit on 1/10/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
Such increases are expected to be accompanied by increases in productivity which would neutralize any adverse impact in the final retail cost.

Could you cite some empirical evidence to suggest that... Or is that a "feel good" statement?

Productivity will remain the same... The same workers will be doing the same job, just costing more to their employers. The vast majority of the workforce, will have their pay remain unchanged as their wage/salary will be well above the minimum wage. The catch for the majority, they get paid no more, but the cost of goods and services has increased...

The thought that you've built a better burger flipper by paying him/her a buck or to more is nothing but a pipe dream. You want a better burger flipper, go somewhere that pays more despite what the minimum wage is.

We just had a vote on raising the minimum wage a couple of months ago. Democrats defeated it! Why are they trying again?

That Minimum Wage bill also included the repeal of the Death Tax. So it would have helped young people now, with a wage increase, and it also would have helped them in the old age. But Democrats killed it. Go figure? I guess Democrats can't stand Tax Relief.

A stand alone Minimum Wage increase would only hurt the economy.

We really need to look a repealing the Minimum Wage. I hate the idea of Government deciding what someone is worth to an employer.

BTW I have a 16 year old son who is currently working at a restaurant for minimum wage. Why the heck does he need a raise? I pay for everything for him anyway!

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Other than part time, students, retired elderly (I mention this in the case of "get out of the house" workers) working at entry level jobs, who actually gets paid minimum wage?

Immigrants, single moms who couldn't finish school. I'm sure in cities where jobs are scarce there are plenty of people working at minimum wage. Where I live now if you go to a fast food place it is mostly students who work there. In the city where my family is from, the economy fell and fast food restaurants employ people of all ages and education levels.

posted by RRconservative


That Minimum Wage bill also included the repeal of the Death Tax. So it would have helped young people now, with a wage increase, and it also would have helped them in the old age. But Democrats killed it. [Edited by Don W]

1) The Estate Tax does not apply until the net estate exceeds $1 million. “Net” means after deducting various expenses associated with dying including paying debts of the deceased.

2) Any inheritance is a windfall to the beneficiaries.

3) The estate tax was initially created to discourage the growth of large holdings passed from one generation to the next, crating economic oligarchies which is counter-indicated for democracy.



[edit on 1/10/2007 by donwhite]

I dont know how related to this is to the minimum wage conspiracy, but watching cspan today there was an agrument how the minimum wage increase affects all U.S. states and teritories except the American Samoa Islands.

75% of the population(i belive they said) of these islands work for 2 tuna canning operations, with these companies behing based in San Fransisco(who is represented by Nancy Polosi).

The argument for not giving the pay raise here was that if these people received the new minimum wage(they get $3.26 currently) would hurt them in the global market moving their jobs to asian contries where canners get some 60 cents an hour.

If it can be assumed that minimum wage increases would hurt this industry, why would it not hurt other industry? and why if other industry is going to be hurt, what makes the American Samoa Islands different that they should not be paid better?


www.washingtonpost.com...

That's right. I'm not too old, and i'm not too young. I have held high positions in the publishing industry however, the circle we travel in life brought me to Cape Cod Massachusetts, where all there is are service jobs.
Menial service jobs. If i have to walk around all day, i want an increase in pay.

You guys make it sound like only losers or kids have these kind of jobs. I've been around and after having done cable tv shows, worked for airlines and functioning as telecommunications specialist for two publishing companies, well, here i am and proud of it.

I'll take the pay hike. And proud of it.

The next time you go to a restaurant, consider this:

An employer of an employer who receives tips is required to pay $2.13 an hour in wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips.
Source

Federal minimum wage is currently $5.15 an hour. That is an average of $824 gross per month. At $2.13 per hour the monthly wage is only $340.80 per month. That means that we, the consumers, are supposed to pay the server $483.20 per month. The consumer is expected to pay more than the employer. Who can live on $824 a month?

In a perfect world, a waitress would receive about 15% tip on every meal she serves. This would more than compensate for the low wages. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world. Many people don’t see a need to tip. Others only tip a buck or two. Those who rely on tips understand that it’s either feast or famine and some have to share their tips with others. Most servers are not allowed to work over 40 hours a week. They have no insurance and many have health problems related to being on their feet all day. A good number of them are single moms so they have no health insurance for their children either.

Think about this the next time you go to a restaurant.

Yeah, its better to be like the Mexicans and Chinese and work for pennies an hour! More NWO!

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
That is what the fraud of the "Minimum Wage" is. Go ahead, pick a number... Make the minimum wage $20 an hour... Guess what, inflation and the cost of living will skyrocket, and those making minimum wage will be no closer to a "Living Wage" than they are now. Other than part time, students, retired elderly (I mention this in the case of "get out of the house" workers) working at entry level jobs, who actually gets paid minimum wage?

inflation sky rockets anyway, that's the whole F-ing point of minimum wage. So that companies pay their workers a 'livible-wage'. Although, I can't see minimum wage livible. I barely see $10 as livible, unless you enjoy crotchedy old delapidaed apartments (cuz ain't no way you're going to buy a house at $10/hr), and eat food that'll kill you in 30 years.

If you think that companies should be able to pay whatever they want to people, I can assure the amount would be $0. If they really cared about being fair or were ethical in anyway CEOs wouldn't be taking home Millions of dollars a year, they'd give their employees a 10% wage increase every year to compete w/ inflation, while at the same time giving hard workers 15-20% pay increases at the end of the year. But does that happen? Ha, I wish.

Originally posted by darkelf

Federal minimum wage is currently $5.15 an hour. That is an average of $824 gross per month. At $2.13 per hour the monthly wage is only $340.80 per month. That means that we, the consumers, are supposed to pay the server $483.20 per month. The consumer is expected to pay more than the employer. Who can live on $824 a month?

In a perfect world, a waitress would receive about 15% tip on every meal she serves. This would more than compensate for the low wages. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world. Many people don’t see a need to tip. Others only tip a buck or two. Those who rely on tips understand that it’s either feast or famine and some have to share their tips with others. Most servers are not allowed to work over 40 hours a week. They have no insurance and many have health problems related to being on their feet all day. A good number of them are single moms so they have no health insurance for their children either.

Think about this the next time you go to a restaurant.

Exactly.

While going to college (and am still going, I'm only 23), I've had many jobs. I've been a Pizza Delivery guy 2x so far. Each time I was paid $5.15 (minimum wage). My average tip was $1.50 (usually not even getting one...but there were some the generous people, giving me $5 or more...usually the poor people). The first place, we got $0.90 per delivery for compensation for using our own vehicles (gas, vehicle-wear, mileage, etc.), but the average delivery was 4-6 miles (range was 8 mles, I believe). You think $0.90 is enough to reinburse me for all of that? HA. The second place didnt' even do that, we got no compensation. My average tips ranged about $15-$45 a night, at about 4 hours of work. That's like...$10 an hour (or $50 a night on average), but then subtract my gas and wear/tear of vehicle. Usually a whole tank is blown ($35). So I'm actually making $3.00-$.400 an hour. If minumum wage was hiked to $10, then I'd be making about $8-$9 an hour delivering Pizza. Not only is minimum WAY TOO LOW, I just realized something...You lose money when delivering pizzas, that sucks.

I tip 20-25% generally at restaurants and give the pizza guy $5. If a poor guy can handle that, (and still needs his mommy to help him pay rent, because it's impossible other wise), then you rich jerk-offs can pay that. Raise the minimum wage and tip more people.

Think about it, poor people are poor because of two reasons. They aren't smart, or they're bad with money. If you give them more money......doesn't that mean that they'll have more to spend at your business (talking to you, ya creepy conservatives)? Isn't that a good thing? Give them more money, and our economy will be MUCH better. Who cares if you pay more on wages. If every company did that, they'd make it up in revenue, as people will have more to spend.

I don't understand this generation...

What sickens me the most is that the head of the corporation, who already has millions of dollars, is making millions more while he pays people $6.00 an hour.

Disgusting.

The rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer.

My questions to the folks that resent paying min. wage to unskilled workers is.....

How much should unskilled workers be paid? Do they deserve even being paid at all? Should they even try and work at all; just be satisfied with what they get from welfare and foodstamps.

Originally posted by whaaa
My questions to the folks that resent paying min. wage to unskilled workers is.....

How much should unskilled workers be paid? Do they deserve even being paid at all? Should they even try and work at all; just be satisfied with what they get from welfare and foodstamps.

Well, if they could all walk off the job at the same time, we'd see what their "unskilled work" is worth. Unfortunately, they'd probably all lose their jobs.

What about the people currently earning about $7.50 an hour?

I'm sure that there are some low paid workers who may have started out at $5.15 an hour and worked their way up. They could be earning about $7.50 an hour now. If this wage increase went into effect, they next idiot that walked through the door automatically receives the same pay as them.

Talk about a Morale Boost!

The only talk about Minimum Wage should be how to repeal it!

Government has no right to tell you how much you are worth.

posted by Mirthful Me

posted by donwhite

increases are accompanied by increases in productivity which would neutralize adverse impact in the retail cost.

Could you cite some empirical evidence to suggest that... Or is that a "feel good" statement? The vast majority of the workforce, will have their pay remain unchanged as their wage/salary will be well above the minimum wage. You want a better burger flipper, go somewhere that pays more despite what the minimum wage is. [Edited by Don W]

I took my first job in 1950. The minimum wage was 75 cents an hour. A Shell gas station attendant. Pump jockey, they called it. My net pay was $25 and change. Everyone paid income taxes and SS tax. Bus fare was 15 cents. $7 a week got you a 3rd floor walk-up, bath down the hall, furnished room. For $2 more a week, you got one meal, breakfast or supper, or a brown bag lunch. It was possible to live a respectable life on the minimum wage. I lived with my parents but if I had been single, I’d have taken a room near the public library, when I could be entertained and educated many hours a week.

I don’t know how many times the minimum wage has been raised, but I will assure you, the same worn out litany of higher prices, lost jobs and going out of business has been heard every time. In 1935. In 2007. So, empirically speaking, I can tell you first hand, Mr M/M, that it was wrong in 1935 and it is still wrong in 2007.

To those who are into exploiting the poor and helpless of our society, I wish they would get a new line to pitch. This old one has rusted through.


[edit on 1/13/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by RRconservative
Government has no right to tell you how much you are worth.

Should it be left up to the person/company doing the hireing?
I own a very small company and employ 2 people fulltime and 2 people part time. I think min. wage is fair to start and quick raises if you show an apptitude and some skill.


But you RRconservative with your attitude;you aren't worth $2.50 in fact I would have ran your ass off the first time you bad mouthed me or one of the other staff for our political beliefs.

posted by whaaa

posted by Rrconservative: Government has no right to tell you how much you are worth.

Should it be left up to the person or company doing the hiring? I own a very small company and employ 2 people full-time and 2 people part time. I think min. wage is fair to start and quick raises if you show an amplitude and some skill. [Edited by Don W]

Bravo! Mr Whaaa. And you have hit on the point of a governmental floor. Many people cannot fend for themselves, or if they try, they do it very badly. You, an entrepreneur, are compelled to deal with wages when you first decide to expand or begin a business that employees other people. I have been there and done that. I had s separate checking account for payroll. I deposited 120% of gross wages into that account every week. Then, when my monthly FICA report was due, the money was there. When my quarterly unemployment report was due, the money was there. When my semi-annual workers comp policy came due, the money was there.

As long as everyone has to pay at least the minimum wage, then that is one more advantage to an entrepreneur, one more cost that he does not have to wrestle with too much, because all other entrepreneurs will have the same wage base. The winner will be the one who can arrange the work so that more goods are produced or services are delivered. That’s the entrepreneur’s challenge.

My best wishes to you for success! Success because of your own industry, your imagination and your diligences. But not success on the blood and sweat of helpless workers!

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


[edit on 1/13/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by RRconservative
Government has no right to tell you how much you are worth.

Should it be left up to the person/company doing the hireing?
I own a very small company and employ 2 people fulltime and 2 people part time. I think min. wage is fair to start and quick raises if you show an apptitude and some skill.


But you RRconservative with your attitude;you aren't worth $2.50 in fact I would have ran your ass off the first time you bad mouthed me or one of the other staff for our political beliefs.

Personal attack? Very nice!

uhhmmm, if you are a small business owner, I think we are on the same side.

If you offered someone $2.50 an hour and they were dumb enough to take it, I don't see the problem with that. You get what you pay for! I'm sure if you saw my Bush sticker on my car, you wouldn't have hired me anyway! That my friend is also your right as a businessman!