US Military Funds Geneticist Searching for DNA "So Dangerous It Does Not Exist"

Originally posted by soficrow
Seems we can think of many nefarious applications for this technology - but no specific positive applications.

Self defense from those developing this technology for nefarious purposes seems like a positive application. I share all of your concerns about this research, but our government would be negligent if it did not pursue countermeasures. Are you proposing that the US government do no research?
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Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by soficrow
I share all of your concerns about this research, but our government would be negligent if it did not pursue countermeasures. Are you proposing that the US government do no research?
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oversight is the key, there really is no substitute, seeing as western gov't had now qualms about spraying towns with cadmium or conducting experimentation on its citizens, so why wouldn't the do the same today using this new gizmo?

se also www.abovetopsecret.com...

Back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, a lot of info that we take for granted now, wasn't known, so.....some of the tests were riskier than we'd undertake now.

Originally posted by df1
Self defense from those developing this technology for nefarious purposes seems like a positive application.

Exactly, you are right in that perspective, our government has to get in gear and to prepare for less than scrupulous nations that have no ethical problems developing what they want in secret.

But as everything that has to do with human nature this things could become hard to control.

The problem will be if our government's genetics gurus find something and they try to test it and become uncontrollable, taking into consideration that this is human DNA . . . anything can happen that would affect mankind in unpredictable ways.

I guess it comes to the race to see who do it first.

Beside we have a poor record for secrecy and is always somebody out there that will sell any type of destructive technology for the right amount of money.

It's amazing how well conspiracies can be kept secret though. The folks in the tech department, should take notes from the folks in the conspiracy department, on OPSEC.

Originally posted by df1

Self defense from those developing this technology for nefarious purposes seems like a positive application.

Pure bull puckey.

There is a nearly infinite number of potential permutations and combinations of natural and synthetic amino acids - so sorry, it doesn't wash. At all.

It's like developing a vaccine for a pandemic - you can only do it AFTER you know exactly what you're targeting.


Honestly - I would like to see a group of criminals make the argument - in court - that they had to do what they did because they thought someone else might do it to them eventually.

US federal policy could be used as a precedent in presenting the defense.

Originally posted by soficrow
Pure bull puckey.

It's not pure bull puckey, but it definitely contains a large percentage of puckey as I do not have a great deal of faith that the US military are the good guys in this research. I'd feel a lot better about it if was the CDC doing the government research.

It's like developing a vaccine for a pandemic - you can only do it AFTER you know exactly what you're targeting.

If you did not have people that know about vaccines to exactly identify and target you are screwed even after the fact. One charged with making a response to a DNA threat would surely be more skilled if he/she had hands on experience with DNA similar to the threat. Folks that develop vaccines to respond to pandemics are skilled because they have developed vaccines many times before. So it is with this research, somebody needs to be smart about before the manure hits the fan.

Honestly - I would like to see a group of criminals make the argument - in court - that they had to do what they did because they thought someone else might do it to them eventually.

Galileo wouldn't want to make a scientific argument in any court, it didn't work out real well for him. Scientific process is intended to determine the truth, whereas the purpose of judicial process is to administer the law with any discovered truths being merely coincidental. Imho your analogy has it's share of puckey as well.
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Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by soficrow
It's like developing a vaccine for a pandemic - you can only do it AFTER you know exactly what you're targeting.

If you did not have people that know about vaccines to exactly identify and target you are screwed even after the fact. One charged with making a response to a DNA threat would surely be more skilled if he/she had hands on experience with DNA similar to the threat. Folks that develop vaccines to respond to pandemics are skilled because they have developed vaccines many times before. So it is with this research, somebody needs to be smart about before the manure hits the fan.

DNA is DNA; vaccines are vaccines - and we already have people working on vaccines that target DNA.

The thing is - each killer sequence will be absolutely unique - never before seen. And they all will be different.

Developing/finding our own killer sequences - along with the alleged enemy scientists allegedly working on the same thing - will give us nothing but our own killer sequences.

They will NOT give us any edge at all in developing a vacine or any kind of treatment. We will need the alledged enemy sequence to work with directly for that.

Again - we only will gain unique killer sequences, and knowledge of those sequences, that is not applicable to other unique sequences.

This is like nuclear proliferation, except these bombs make teeny tiny microscopic bangs instead of great big booming ones.

Just for arguments sake, does not the OP's own link answer his questions?

Hampikian believes the applications of his work could be wide-ranging. He has already received a $1 million grant from the US Department of Defense to [color=5a18f1]develop a DNA "safety tag" that could be added to voluntary DNA reference samples in criminal cases to distinguish them from forensic samples. Such tags would not necessarily have to consist of lethal sequences, but could be based on primes that would be easy to detect using a simple kit.

[color=5a18f1]Further down the line there is the possibility of constructing a "suicide gene" to code for deadly amino acid primes. It could be attached to genetically modified organisms and activated to destroy them at a later date if they turned out to be dangerous, Hampikian suggests.

www.newscientist.com...

Now that is the final two paragraphs from the link provided by the OP...

Seems the answer was there all along. Unless of course the Boise State University in Idaho is in fact some super secret, underground installation specifically run by the US Government to conduct experiments into the "Omega" weapon. I guess that is possible, but then so is Human Life on the face of the Sun, though not likely...

Semper

Did it ever occur to you all that perhaps the Defense Dept. funded this research project with the expectation (and feverent hope) that the good doctor would/will find nothing. One rationale being that if he can't find anything then probably nobody else can either.

Besides, there is only one sequence of DNA that has proven universally harmful to life--all life. That is the one that codes for human beings.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Just for arguments sake, does not the OP's own link answer his questions?

Hampikian believes the applications of his work could be wide-ranging. He has already received a $1 million grant from the US Department of Defense to develop a DNA "safety tag" that could be added to voluntary DNA reference samples in criminal cases to distinguish them from forensic samples.

...Further down the line there is the possibility of constructing a "suicide gene" to code for deadly amino acid primes. It could be attached to genetically modified organisms and activated to destroy them at a later date if they turned out to be dangerous, Hampikian suggests.

Seems the answer was there all along.

Not at all.

The way I read it, those are 2 different projects.

Project 1. We know that the DoD supports Hampikian's work - and gave him a $1 million grant to tag criminals' DNA.

Project 2. We don't know how much they're giving him to sequence currently unknown "killer DNA."

In referring to the "suicide gene," Hampikan is rationalizing his role in searching for 'killer DNA' by saying that when it is used, he will attach a suicide gene so that the 'killer DNA sequence' will self-destruct.

But he does NOT say how the killer DNA sequence might be used, or what it might be used for. Just that it can be programmed to self-destruct when it is used.


In any event - no. I do not believe everything I am told. No matter whose PR firm says it.

Your correct in the part where you stated we "don't know."

Here is a list of other things we don't know about the research..

1. The Government is funding it to develop Mutant Humans, make a team of them and call them X men.
2. Use the results to develop a Super Intellect, call him Brainiac and let him rule the world.
3. Or exactly what the article says...

Well the list of things we don't know and our imagination can run wild with is of course endless. I guess being a conspiracy site, one can expect some wild speculations, but to deviate so far from what was actually written, well the possibilities are truly endless. And amusing..

I guess it is at least a good mental exercise for our imaginations. At least that anyway..

Semper

Exactly we don't know and that the whole funding is indeed to find a killer gene.

Is already good forensic approaches with DNA that are working just fine.

But ALAS we don't have yet a killer gene.

So what is priority?

Ok When I see These two projects somehow linked or merging then I would say, why?

Human Genome Diversity Project

with the current project under discussion:

DNA Safety Tag



[edit on 1/8/2007 by a1ex]

Originally posted by semperfortis

Your correct in the part where you stated we "don't know."

...I guess it is at least a good mental exercise for our imaginations.

I am consistently amused by members like you who seem threatened by open discourse - and seek to distract, shut down, dismiss and ridicule without contributing anything solid.

Again - I invited speculation about how "killer DNA sequences" might be used.

No one has identified a specific positive use.

Several negative potentials and implications are under discussion.



BIG HINT: If you want to deflect attention from the significant and signicantly real negative potentials and implications of this research,

then -

Bring a MORE significant and signicantly real positive potential to the table for discussion.




sofi

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by semperfortis

Your correct in the part where you stated we "don't know."

...I guess it is at least a good mental exercise for our imaginations.

I am consistently amused by members like you who seem threatened by open discourse - and seek to distract, shut down, dismiss and ridicule without contributing anything solid.

Again - I invited speculation about how "killer DNA sequences" might be used.

No one has identified a specific positive use.

Several negative potentials and implications are under discussion.



BIG HINT: If you want to deflect attention from the significant and signicantly real negative potentials and implications of this research,

then -

Bring a MORE significant and signicantly real positive potential to the table for discussion.

sofi

No...

The issue was created by wild speculation on a comparatively simple and straightforward issue. YOU created the drama and YOU are 100% wrong..

Your "question" was asked and answered...

External Source

Hampikian believes the applications of his work could be wide-ranging. He has already received a $1 million grant from the US Department of Defense to [color=5a18f1]develop a DNA "safety tag" that could be added to voluntary DNA reference samples in criminal cases to distinguish them from forensic samples. Such tags would not necessarily have to consist of lethal sequences, but could be based on primes that would be easy to detect using a simple kit.

[color=5a18f1]Further down the line there is the possibility of constructing a "suicide gene" to code for deadly amino acid primes. It could be attached to genetically modified organisms and activated to destroy them at a later date if they turned out to be dangerous, Hampikian suggests.

The ISSUE is because it does not fit in your little Government World Domination illusion, YOU simply dismissed it....

The FACT that I contribute common sense, and do not subscribe to fantasy illusionary speculations, does not disqualify my contributions any more than your wild speculations of undercover mass dominance control of a Government gone insane, disqualifies yours.

So you consider your contribution of the Government creating a "Killer DNA" that will undoubtedly (In your mind) attack the population and must be subdued by the Justice League, as more sound and a better contribution that what the ARTICLE ACTUALLY SAYS...

I seldom use the little smileys, but in this case, they are 100% valid..

Semper

In the links supplied by Alex I see that research on human Genome division is attracting a great interest in the diversity of racial groups.

Then you see the various projects that Greg Hampikian is doing that has to doe with division or sequences of human DNA.

While I see that a study like that is very good indeed for the . . . let say good oh human kind . . . and occurs lets say that That is all scientist around the world wants, to see why some races are more resistance to others or susceptible to others when it comes to diseases. . .

I kind of find also interesting that while looking for something that can help human kind, we have to bring what else can undermine those factors that are so distinctive on certain races with a very convenient Killer gene.

Does anybody see my point?

We cannot only think as the possibilities of good that Human Genome division can bring to the scientific community.

Nevertheless, like Sofi say we have multibillion dollar empires in the pharmaceutical that their business is looking for solutions (or I may say cures) for diseases, even drugs that are more beneficial for some particular races than other is.

Still the question as why a killer gene is needed to be researched has not been answer just as Sofi is asking.

Originally posted by marg6043
Still the question as why a killer gene is needed to be researched...

A scientist will tell you that gaining more knowledge is enough of a reason to do research. This is based on the assumption that additional knowledge is a better than continued ignorance. What we don't know will kill us just as dead as what we do know. Not looking is just putting our head the sand and it is not all that much different than the current administration censoring scientists on the issue of global warming.

After an astonishing blunder that may have allowed a lethal pandemic flu strain to escape from the lab, researchers call for improved biosecurity. link

No one would suggest not researching potentially lethal flu strains even though the risks are well known, so it seems absurd to me that anyone would desire to ban research into an area of genetics where the dire risks are completely mythical to this point.
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Thanks for your contributions everyone.

Here's a Pfizer tidbit from bioweapons history, illustrating the thirst for knowlwedge for knowledge' sake.

Pfizer's Chemical/Biological Weapons Report

Back when the US had an openly acknowledged, offensive chemical-biological-radiological weapons program (as opposed to the secret, illegal one it has now), many pharmaceutical and chemical corporations developed these weapons for the military. Among them was drug giant Pfizer, whose better-known products include Viagra, Zoloft, Rogaine, and Rolaids.

In this 1964 report, the company (then called Chas. Pfizer & Co., Inc.) discusses its first year of research under its contract to create incapacitating agents, which produce tremors, dysphoria, confusion, muscle fatigue, pain, vomiting, diarrhea, difficulty breathing or swallowing, hypersensitive skin, dangerously low blood pressure, and/or - most intriguingly - retrograde amnesia. Despite the absence of the word biological from the report's title, Pfizer also discusses its work with microbes in addition to chemicals.

The program will proceed initially along three lines. Firstly, some of the toxic compounds of microbiological origin, which are already available from the J.L. Smith Memorial for Cancer Research at Maywood, New Jersey, will be screened. Secondly, a number of substances of microbiological origin selected from the literature will be produced in our laboratories for similar evaluation. Lastly, those microbial cultures from Maywood known to produce especially toxic broths will undergo further scrutiny."

[edit on 8-1-2007 by soficrow]

Sofi, I share all of your concerns about our brave new worlds of our ever advancing science and technology, however the present day is all that much different than the past.

Like any rational human, Leonardo [Da Vinci] abhorred war -- he called it "beastly madness" -- but since Renaissance Italy was constantly at war he couldn't avoid it. He designed numerous weapons, including missiles, multi-barreled machine guns, grenades, mortars, and even a modern-style tank. He drew the line, however, with his plans for an underwater breathing device, which he refused to reveal, saying that men would likely use it for "evil in war."
link

He [Da Vinci] conceived ideas vastly ahead of his own time, notably conceptually inventing a helicopter, a tank, the use of concentrated solar power, a calculator, a rudimentary theory of plate tectonics, the double hull, and many others. Relatively few of his designs were constructed or were feasible during his lifetime; modern scientific approaches to metallurgy and engineering were only in their infancy during the Renaissance. In addition, he greatly advanced the state of knowledge in the fields of anatomy, astronomy, civil engineering, optics, and the study of water (hydrodynamics). Of his works, only a few paintings survive, together with his notebooks (scattered among various collections) containing drawings, scientific diagrams and notes.
link

Without his military contracting, it is unlikely that Da Vinci would have received the funding for his research that advanced humanity. Would you be willing to forsake everything Da Vinci accomplished for humanity if you could eliminate all he accomplished for the military?
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