NO RESPECT

Thanks for bringing that helpful and enlightening bit of info to the discussion.

were you born into a wealthy family?

thats what you need if your gonna get any political career in this country!

this is the problem I was left with in my post "boycott US gov." everybody says they didnt understand what i was trying to say and basically didnt know what i was talking about.

but then the same people rave about how the same "better than any other government" lies and cheats to the world let alone americans!

every thread I look at it's...gov. is lying about this, the gov. is lying about that!
why just sit here and speculate and post links from other sites?
dont get me wrong, I do like this place alot, its a good source of knowledge even if speculation warps truth!
I say If we used some of the knowledge that alot of you all posess, and just think!
I dont know myself, but what different ways are there to keep a civilization an organized civilization... without using political parties and these old systems that seem to be the cause of all the problem!
also, its clear that as long as theirs all these different religions theirs going to be conflict!
really I dont think theres anything we can do to change it all! just a matter of time

Ya know, you're right. It really doesn't matter what we say here. I like to learn from other people and try really hard to understand how individuals can support so much death; death penalty, war, etc. From this board I gain a perspective from those that support these acts and am more able to understand how they think. I find the mental process particularly interesting.

Of course you can read on this thread that not too many Pro-Bush individuals want to touch this topic. There is no way to justify this senseless killing. You will find those that try and say "well look at what sadaam did", but come on that doesn't even come close to engaging this topic. They are unable to formulate an angle to justify the killing of innocent civilians and try to use revenge. This just shows me that while they may be well informed, they are not very intelligent and are truly unable to produce ideas on their own, only that which has been pumped into them since birth.

[Edited on 17-12-2003 by mooseofterror]

Hey &*^*&^ sticks...everyone on this thread who's ever done anything to make a difference in the world or even help out their fellow man, let alone try and secure peace and independence for an entire country, raise thier hand.....?

Ok...anyone that's done anything besides bitch and moan their life away on internet forums rather than getting involved and seeing just what it takes to lead people into combat or into any dangerous/touchy situation, raise your hand....?

That's what I thought.

I completely agree with Dreamz concerning civilian casualties...they are definitely unfortunate and no military person wants to be the one responsible for killing non-combatant. But it happens....it's happened for centuries...millenia...and it will continue to happen as long as there is conflict in the world.

Where are your cries for the Israeli civilians slaughtered by Palestinian terrorists? Where are your cries for the TENS OF THOUSANDS of civilians cleansed in Serbia by Slobodan? Where are your shouts of anger at the hundreds of thousands genocidally killed in Africa; take your pick there...Congo, Sudan, Uganda...

And that's not to mention the Ethopia/Eritrea war that flashed in 1998 to become more brutal and devestating, some say than many WWI battles; utilizing trench warfare and artillery bombardments on villages...or Somalia where warlords take all the resources for themselves and are perfectly content to let the masses starve to death.

But the condition of both nations was quite appalling, after what they had both been through. When Zenawi took power in Ethiopia, he announced that Mengistu had plunged the country into bankruptcy, with a debt of $8.6 billion, mainly for arms. An estimated 60,000 children had been left crippled, and 45,000 orphaned. There were some 750,000 refugees, 500,000 of them in Sudan, living at subsistence level. There was one physician for every 48,000 of the population. 80% of the population were dependent on food aid; environmental degradation, very much avoidable had it not been for the war and Mengistu's policies, had reduced agricultural production by 40% from 1980 to 1990 - this when agriculture is the major economic activity which supports 90% of the population. Average life expectancy at birth was 46. It was - and remains to this day - one of the most impoverished regions in the world. When seen in the context of the immense value of arms poured into the area, the mind boggles.

And let's, of course, not forget Iraq itself...where your benevolent and pure hero, apparently to you, killed hundreds of thousands of people in his 30+ years of domination. Chemical weapons on his own people in an attempt to rid the country of the Kurds; chemical attacks on the Iranians during that war; overfilled prisons that were PURGED because they had to make room for more "enemies of the state"; over 250 locations SO FAR that have been deemed MASS GRAVES estimated to hold more than 300,000 (*&!@(*#& people dating from 1983 to 1991:

www.9neesan.com...


news.bbc.co.uk...

Don't tell me that 8,000 casualties, while extremely unfortunate (and a completely bogus/trumped up number, besides), is worse than the atrocities he commited every single year on his own people.

I'll be glad when the U.S. hands control of Iraq back over to them as well, so I won't have to listen to the liberal media bash a President who's trying to do the right thing or watch any more soldiers die for ungrateful citizens or whiny punks who are the first to bitch at the bumpy road, but never take the reins to move in another direction.

as far as i understand it, its show a lack of respect by whome ever if they stop counting casualties..ofcourse they are not avoideble cause its war, and lets stop saying, mm he killed so many so we can kill also so many..thats stupide and childish...

I do my part helping others less fortunate, what about you. I work with an international humanitarian agency and we load trucks, drive the trucks to the locations and fill out all the dumb ass customs paperwork ,with much needed supplies and food for third world countries as well as countries #ed up by war. Don't come in here talking that crap. You just as same as everyone else that tries to make good what the US did to innocent Iraqis by saying, oh well it isn't as bad as what sadaam did. Do me and everyone else a favor, enlighten yourself a bit and next time you post make an educated statement.