Russia Cant beat the 22

Originally posted by junglejake
although 8000 degrees is hot, that's no where near plasma. If, again, they're refering to the physics world's concept of plasma, and not just some nifty name. The properties of the plasma cloud coencide with the physical charicteristics of plasma, but I think an aircraft would reach over 8000 degrees.

Also, what is that glass for the cockpit made out of, or do they have a viewscreen?

maybe it was 8000c...

i have the article somewhere...

i will post it tommorrow...

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by Jeffrey


~But it isn't? Okay Fulcrum where's your undenyable source of straight facts to prove he's wrong? Gimme a list of a fighter better then the f-22. And dont say the s-37. And I didn't know of them russian folk to have any stealth helicopters either

the su-37 is not better then the f-22 and we never said it was...

~I Never said the s-37 was better nor did anybody else. I was simply using it as a possible prehense. And I'm sure you mean the forward swept wing design correct?

i would say the mig 1.44 is better then f22, better speed a radar that can track 40 targets stealth superior AA supercruise ability to attack ground targets etc.. who knows, maybe it will be put into production sometime

It would appear that steath has been compromised for some time. I would assume that is part of the US directive to militarise space. I would also suggest that there are many hypersonic projects on the go, and we are truly entering the era of push button wars.

Originally posted by Russian


American F-117A stealth bomber shot down over Yugoslavia in March of 1999. Pentagon officials confirmed that the aircraft was tracked by an unidentified radar and that two surface-to-air missile were fired at the F-117. Russian Minister of Defense announced that the aircraft was brought down by a Russian-made SA-6 mobile SAM working in concert with a ground radar.




The British Daily Telegraph on 12 November 1997 reported a CIA leak of Iraqi plans to buy the Czech-made Tamara electronic weapon system, which is capable of hitting US F-117 and B-2 Stealth bombers by tracking their electronic emissions.



The Iraqi government of President Saddam
Hussein is reported trying to acquire a Czech-built aircraft detection system
reputedly able to pinpoint top-secret stealth aircraft.

Nick Cook, the military aviation specialist with Jane's publishing organization
in London, told RFE/RL that Tamara is a passive detection system. He said it is
essentially a set of truck-mounted electronic listening devices arranged on the
ground in triangular pattern. These devices do not send out radar waves which
the stealth planes can avoid. He said that -- if the manufacturer's claims are
correct -- they instead pinpoint incoming planes by registering the electronic
"footprint" emitted by the planes themselves. These electronic emissions occur
regularly as aircraft establish their position and lock on to their targets.


this is the radar i was talking about...

I thought as it was posted . Cant find the link but maybe some one has it . This f117 was shot down by a rifle or muskat during a low level flight path due to a high altatude life support system falure, or somthing to that effect . Damn wish I could find that link.

AlBeMet

AlBeMet.......
What does that photo have to do with stealth and its capabilities?
If a man can shoot a F-117 with a musket or rifle, does that not indicate that there is no stealth involved? IF you can see it, regardless if the plane is "stealth" or not....the stealth capabilites are nullified and non-existent.

That is a known draw back to any aircraft....susceptability to ground fire. In such a case as being close enough to see, where is 'stealth' in this equation? There is none.

Sector.......
Your opinion on the undocumented data and what the aircaft "can do" and "can't do" is, as always, noted. in regards to how you feel it can out-class an F-22.
You see........there is a very significant difference......one is currently being produced and the other is a R&D prototype/future aircraft test bed and as has been factually shown, is not going into production anytime in its near future. One can certainly hope.....thats about it.
In the case of the 1.42/1.44 Mig....it is not a matter of "when", its of matter of "isn't".


regards
seekerof

The craft was shot down because the pilot got lax, and flew the same straight-line pattern he and other pilots flew... They used faint radar echoes, and listening stations to "guess" where the plane would be, and sent up a barrage, that succeeded in getting lucky...(and quite an ingenious capitalization on the error)

That said, Russia itself does have some advanced radar systems that can counteract many stealth effects, but many improvements are also constantly being made to it (i.e. those Czech ones mentioned would not be able to track the F22, or even the refitted 117's). I'm not too impressed with the Russian plane just shown...but it ain't bad....

Originally posted by Seekerof
AlBeMet.......
What does that photo have to do with stealth and its capabilities?
If a man can shoot a F-117 with a musket or rifle, does that not indicate that there is no stealth involved? IF you can see it, regardless if the plane is "stealth" or not....the stealth capabilites are nullified and non-existent.

That is a known draw back to any aircraft....susceptability to ground fire. In such a case as being close enough to see, where is 'stealth' in this equation? There is none.

Sector.......
Your opinion on the undocumented data and what the aircaft "can do" and "can't do" is, as always, noted. in regards to how you feel it can out-class an F-22.
You see........there is a very significant difference......one is currently being produced and the other is a R&D prototype/future aircraft test bed and as has been factually shown, is not going into production anytime in its near future. One can certainly hope.....thats about it.
In the case of the 1.42/1.44 Mig....it is not a matter of "when", its of matter of "isn't".

regards
seekerof

Seekerof ,

I Quoted Russia on his post ,and was trying to say that I beleave that this downed f117 was not due to a new anti stealth radar but to a rifle. I think you ment to quote him as for you are asking the same question to me as I to him.

AlBeMet

Originally posted by Jeffrey



~I Never said the s-37 was better nor did anybody else. I was simply using it as a possible prehense. And I'm sure you mean the forward swept wing design correct?

s-37 is a different stroy...

you said su-37...

s-37 is probably better then the f-22...

but its not a production model...

I've never even heard of the s-37

Originally posted by junglejake
I've never even heard of the s-37

its another name for su-47


this is the su-37

images.janes.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>
this is the su-47(s-37)

as you probably already have noticed...

the su-47(s-37) has FORWARD swept wings and the su-37 doesnt

Originally posted by junglejake
although 8000 degrees is hot, that's no where near plasma. If, again, they're refering to the physics world's concept of plasma, and not just some nifty name. The properties of the plasma cloud coencide with the physical charicteristics of plasma, but I think an aircraft would reach over 8000 degrees.

Also, what is that glass for the cockpit made out of, or do they have a viewscreen?

Plasma does not have to be over 8000 degrees celcius. Plasma comes in a vast array of temperatures. From very cold to very hot.

Perhaps you guys should look into a little bit.
www.plasmas.org...

Think about it. Perhaps you have heard of plasma televisions. I highly doubt a television reaches a temperature over 8000 degrees celicius.

[Edited on 11-12-2003 by greenkoolaid]

S-37 / Su-47 Berkut is a totally new aircraft,

Su-37 is so called Super Flanker, in effect a modified Sukhoi Su-27.



Btw,

Even the title of this topic is almost as offensive as final solution was,

Could you people stop posting crap?

Cause the fact is that "the F22 and Comanchie AreNT untouchable.

Aim of the F-22 project is to give USAF first look/shoot/kill capability.
(in a2a combat.)

But this is against current operational OPFOR aircrafts.

This doesnt mean that they will be able to maintain this 'edge over' for long time..
(5-10 years and OFPOR will field equal or better crafts than F-22s will be.)

And also like i already said:

F-22s arent immune to radars/missiles/guns/jamming/chaff/flare.



And im not even going to into the SAM matter as Russia is so much more advanced on those than US..

Thank you for listening.

Yours truly
John

~This will be my last post here for awhile. I can't stand all these members supporting russian aircraft. Always the russian jets. Imho, I don't think they have anything superior to the u.s other than population and nuclear weaponry. As far as this "air-superiority" in russia, the u.s would of already known about it long before they even thought of making an f-22/x-35 or whatever. If the u.s thought the russians had something better, we would obviously release something better in return. After all the former USSR is still the u.s biggest threat.

Originally posted by Jeffrey
~This will be my last post here for awhile. I can't stand all these members supporting russian aircraft. Always the russian jets. Imho, I don't think they have anything superior to the u.s other than population and nuclear weaponry. As far as this "air-superiority" in russia, the u.s would of already known about it long before they even thought of making an f-22/x-35 or whatever. If the u.s thought the russians had something better, we would obviously release something better in return. After all the former USSR is still the u.s biggest threat.

acculay there is like 4 or 5 people that support Russian aircrafts...

also China is probably on the top list for US cause it is biulding up its army FAST!

but maybe it Russian after this decembers election!

GO PUTIN!!!

edit:

so you will be gone cause you cant stand Russian aitcrafts???

isnt the racist???

[Edited on 11-12-2003 by Russian]

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Even the title of this topic is almost as offensive as final solution

I must agree with Fulcrum (a rarity) on the title of this thread being at best provocative.

Regarding the thoughts on the F-22's stealthiness being voided by superior radar that are posted here and on the thread entitled Stealth Ability Neutralized... I thought I would share some information that I'm sure will be met with the usual passionate responses which I'm none too fond of - but I will share it anyway.

I recently had an opportunity to talk with 3 people involved with ongoing F-22 refinements - I took notes and thought some may find what these people had to say interesting.

Here's the link to this post:
F-22 Raptor

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by Jeffrey
~This will be my last post here for awhile. I can't stand all these members supporting russian aircraft. Always the russian jets. Imho, I don't think they have anything superior to the u.s other than population and nuclear weaponry. As far as this "air-superiority" in russia, the u.s would of already known about it long before they even thought of making an f-22/x-35 or whatever. If the u.s thought the russians had something better, we would obviously release something better in return. After all the former USSR is still the u.s biggest threat.

acculay there is like 4 or 5 people that support Russian aircrafts...

also China is probably on the top list for US cause it is biulding up its army FAST!

but maybe it Russian after this decembers election!

GO PUTIN!!!

edit:

so you will be gone cause you cant stand Russian aitcrafts???

isnt the racist???

[Edited on 11-12-2003 by Russian]

-No. It's becuase the four or five of you persistantly rant about them being better then this and that.

-And no china is not a bigger threat. They have a larger army indeed. But they don't have the technology nor the strategies to mow down rows of troops like the u.s do. China has numbers, but the country is a toilet. They couldn't afford anything that would be considerd a real threat to the u.s

-And no I'm not gone. And no I never said anything even close to me being a racist. It's not like I only support the u.s, it's just I really don't see any of the russians migs being faster,STEALTHIER,etc., then anything the u.s has in it's arsenal. That's not racist buddy.

~NO offense to the chinese people.

The F-22 still cant do the cobra and many other stunts like the Sukhoi.. if u can disprove what i said show me some videos

(putting on the flamesuit and getting prepared for the "the cobra trick cant do # in a dog fight" flame)

Moves for what? What are they for in combat? Moves would be cool if we were fighting 10 yrs ago