Russia Cant beat the 22

Originally posted by dexxy
One thing you always do is take the Russians very seriously....

did you nkow that soon this stealth will be NOTHING!!!

because yugalsovya, Russia, austriala, etc.

already built or are building a anti-stealth radars...

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by dexxy
One thing you always do is take the Russians very seriously....

did you nkow that soon this stealth will be NOTHING!!!

because yugalsovya, Russia, austriala, etc.

already built or are building a anti-stealth radars...

Yes But I'm sure there Upgraded by now ! also the ''stealth'' you refer to is 15+ years old and there just now able to detect them plz post a link to the anti stealth radar site .

Also what is there basis tested on have they located and shot down a 22 or something

AlBeMet

Originally posted by AlBeMet


Yes But I'm sure there Upgraded by now ! also the ''stealth'' you refer to is 15+ years old and there just now able to detect them plz post a link to the anti stealth radar site .

Also what is there basis tested on have they located and shot down a 22 or something

AlBeMet

i will get get back to you with the info later today...

All I have to say is I've flown the SU-37, and I've flown the F-22. Granted, they were in Ace Combat 4, but I'm going to over look that for the sake of this arguement. The F-22 is my prefered weapon of choice, not because of it's heritage (Who the hell is going to know what I fly on my PS2?) but because it handles a LOT better, and has a better armament.

Originally posted by junglejake
All I have to say is I've flown the SU-37, and I've flown the F-22. Granted, they were in Ace Combat 4, but I'm going to over look that for the sake of this arguement

. The F-22 is my prefered weapon of choice, not because of it's heritage (Who the hell is going to know what I fly on my PS2?) but because it handles a LOT better, and has a better armament.

the F-22 is better....

But all I said is that its stealth will not work with the anti-stealth radars...

LOL I'd like to draw your attention to the converstaion we had about stealth being neutralized. Granted, I don't think the F-22's stealth will be effective, at least against russian and chinese forces, but what does the US have now?

American F-117A stealth bomber shot down over Yugoslavia in March of 1999. Pentagon officials confirmed that the aircraft was tracked by an unidentified radar and that two surface-to-air missile were fired at the F-117. Russian Minister of Defense announced that the aircraft was brought down by a Russian-made SA-6 mobile SAM working in concert with a ground radar.




The British Daily Telegraph on 12 November 1997 reported a CIA leak of Iraqi plans to buy the Czech-made Tamara electronic weapon system, which is capable of hitting US F-117 and B-2 Stealth bombers by tracking their electronic emissions.



The Iraqi government of President Saddam
Hussein is reported trying to acquire a Czech-built aircraft detection system
reputedly able to pinpoint top-secret stealth aircraft.







Nick Cook, the military aviation specialist with Jane's publishing organization
in London, told RFE/RL that Tamara is a passive detection system. He said it is
essentially a set of truck-mounted electronic listening devices arranged on the
ground in triangular pattern. These devices do not send out radar waves which
the stealth planes can avoid. He said that -- if the manufacturer's claims are
correct -- they instead pinpoint incoming planes by registering the electronic
"footprint" emitted by the planes themselves. These electronic emissions occur
regularly as aircraft establish their position and lock on to their targets.


this is the radar i was talking about...

I'd just like to mention here that the F-117, in all accounts by pilots and the like, flys like shyte. If it gets targeted by a V2 missle, it's going down. The F-22 compensates for that by having the capability of evading the missile in the unlikely event it gets targeted.

Originally posted by junglejake
I'd just like to mention here that the F-117, in all accounts by pilots and the like, flys like shyte. If it gets targeted by a V2 missle, it's going down. The F-22 compensates for that by having the capability of evading the missile in the unlikely event it gets targeted.

the radar above tracks all stealth planes...

it can NOT track non stealth planes....

and when a fast rocket is sent oafter a planes....

its hard to evade it....

what if the Russians put this on the su-37 and mig-29 and mig-31?

judging by the size of it from the photos you posted, that would cripple the aerodynamics of the plane. In which case, so what?

On another note, I think I read something in the aircraft section of ATS(not forum) about a theoretical saucer type craft with a particle beam. When I read that, I just hoped, desperatelly, that was true. I'd like to see that radar detect and identify that craft in time to fire on it before it's gone

Russia is currently playing around with PLASMA STEALTH!

Originally posted by Russian
Russia is currently playing around with PLASMA STEALTH!

OK, that's just not fair. You say plasma stealth. I keep up on current physics, along with a ton of the other sciences. Plasma stealth means nothing to me, unless you're refering to the plasma concept the TV has, projecting an image of what's above it below it. If that's the case, I had the same idea when the B-2 came out, I figured it did the same thing with fiber optics. Why fiber optics? BEcause that was the cutting edge tech at the time. Now it's plasma. If they use REAL plasma, you must enlighten me. If they use the TV concept of plasma, just let me know. I'm pretty sure the US is in the process of the same thing, although I think I got that idea from the non-forum section of ATS...

Couple of things to keep in mind: plasma is ionized gas particles. Therefore, plasma flow is a flow of ionized gas particles. Ion is an electrically charged particle or group of atoms. Plasma cloud is a quasineutral (total electrical charge is zero) collection of free charged particles. The vast majority of matter in the universe exists in plasma state. Near the Earth plasma can be found in the form of solar wind, magnetosphere and ionosphere. The main property of plasma (for our purposes) is its frequency, which is equal to a square root of a ratio of 4 * Pi * square of ion charge * concentration of ions to the mass of ion:

SQRT ( (4 * Pi * n * e^2) / m ),

where e is electron or ion charge, n is concentration of ions per volume of plasma and m is mass of ion.

There are several types of oscillations in plasma: low frequency (ion-sound waves), high frequency (oscillations of electrons relative to ions), spiral waves (in the presence of a magnetic field - "magnetosound"), and cross waves propagating along a magnetic field. A device for generating plasma is called plasmatron. This device generates the so-called low-temperature plasma.



this is some info about the plasma stealth...

So, one proposal is to charge leading and trailing edges of an aircraft. Russians have an interesting and very advanced project for a hypersonic plane called "AJAX." This particular aircraft is supposed to create plasma at the leading and trailing edges of its body using electrostatic charges. This aircraft design is directly related to those described in recent issues of Scientific American and Air International. This type of an aircraft uses electrostatic charges to ionize air near the surface of its body. This is done for several reasons: first, is to create a protective plasma shield to separate the aircraft from superheated air at hypersonic speed. Second reason to ionize air is to achieve smoother air flow across the fuselage of the aircraft. Another reason for creating plasma is to used in conjunction with magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) propulsion system for hypersonic travel.


OMG...!

Research team of the Recearch Center named after M.V. Keldysh has developed new technologies allowing dramatic decrease in aircrafts' radar observability.
Russian approach to low observability (LO) technologies is completely different from US Stealth and offers complete furtiveness of the protected object at a significantly lower price.
An exclusive interview about these technologies was conducted by Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS with director of the Center, academic of Russian Scientific Academy Anatoliy Korteev.

As academic explained, American approach to LO (Stealth technology) applied on B-2, F-117A, and fifth generation fighter F-22 "Raptor" is based on the following principles.
The airframes of these aircrafts are designed to minimize their radar cross section (RCS), avoid all possible elements of the structure, which could reflect electromagnetic radiation.
In order to minimize reflected radiation radio absorbing materials (RAM) are also applied to the surface of the structure. The main drawbacks of the Stealth technology are its negative effects on the flight and agility characteristics of the stealth aircrafts.

Russian scientists approach the issue from the other direction. They proposed to create a plasma formation around protected object, which prevents radars from seeing it.
Thus,aerodynamical characteristics of the plane itself do not suffer. Without interfereing with technical characteristics the artificially created plasma cloud surrounding the plane guarantees more than hundred times decrease in its observability.

The physics of plasma protection can be described as following. If an object is surrounded by a cloud of plasma, several phenomenas are observed when the cloud interacts with electromagnetic waves radiated by enemy radar.
First, an absorption of electromagnetic energy occurs in the cloud, since during plasma penetration it interacts with plasma charged particles, pass onto them a portion of its energy, and fades.
Second, due to specific physical processes, electromagnetic wave tends to pass around plasma cloud. Both of these phenomenas results in dramatic decrease of the reflected signal.

Static and flight experiments proved the effectiveness of this technology. The first generation devices, producing plasma field surrounding an aircraft and decreasing reflected signal were created in the Center. Later, a possibily of creating second generation advanced systems (capable of not only decreasing reflected signal and changing its wavelength, but also producing some false signals) was discovered.
Such systems significantly complicate determination of actual aircraft's speed, its location and leads to development of completely new approaches to LO provision, unachievable to conventional Stealth technology.
Furthermore, the weight of the systems developed in Russia do not exeed 100 kg, and power consumption ranges from kilowatts to tens of kilowatts.

Advances in development of the third generation LO systems allowed to clear the systems of first and second generation for export, commented academic Anatoliy Korteev.


sorry for post this whole article with no link...

i just got it from my puter not internet...

so i have no link...

Originally posted by Russian
Research team of the Recearch Center named after M.V. Keldysh has developed new technologies allowing dramatic decrease in aircrafts' radar observability.
Russian approach to low observability (LO) technologies is completely different from US Stealth and offers complete furtiveness of the protected object at a significantly lower price.
An exclusive interview about these technologies was conducted by Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS with director of the Center, academic of Russian Scientific Academy Anatoliy Korteev.

As academic explained, American approach to LO (Stealth technology) applied on B-2, F-117A, and fifth generation fighter F-22 "Raptor" is based on the following principles.
The airframes of these aircrafts are designed to minimize their radar cross section (RCS), avoid all possible elements of the structure, which could reflect electromagnetic radiation.
In order to minimize reflected radiation radio absorbing materials (RAM) are also applied to the surface of the structure. The main drawbacks of the Stealth technology are its negative effects on the flight and agility characteristics of the stealth aircrafts.

Russian scientists approach the issue from the other direction. They proposed to create a plasma formation around protected object, which prevents radars from seeing it.
Thus,aerodynamical characteristics of the plane itself do not suffer. Without interfereing with technical characteristics the artificially created plasma cloud surrounding the plane guarantees more than hundred times decrease in its observability.

The physics of plasma protection can be described as following. If an object is surrounded by a cloud of plasma, several phenomenas are observed when the cloud interacts with electromagnetic waves radiated by enemy radar.
First, an absorption of electromagnetic energy occurs in the cloud, since during plasma penetration it interacts with plasma charged particles, pass onto them a portion of its energy, and fades.
Second, due to specific physical processes, electromagnetic wave tends to pass around plasma cloud. Both of these phenomenas results in dramatic decrease of the reflected signal.

Static and flight experiments proved the effectiveness of this technology. The first generation devices, producing plasma field surrounding an aircraft and decreasing reflected signal were created in the Center. Later, a possibily of creating second generation advanced systems (capable of not only decreasing reflected signal and changing its wavelength, but also producing some false signals) was discovered.
Such systems significantly complicate determination of actual aircraft's speed, its location and leads to development of completely new approaches to LO provision, unachievable to conventional Stealth technology.
Furthermore, the weight of the systems developed in Russia do not exeed 100 kg, and power consumption ranges from kilowatts to tens of kilowatts.

Advances in development of the third generation LO systems allowed to clear the systems of first and second generation for export, commented academic Anatoliy Korteev.


sorry for post this whole article with no link...

i just got it from my puter not internet...

so i have no link...

There are a couple of problems I see if this is accurate. Not to doubt you, but the story. If the Russians have developed this technology, and have tested it, they have made some incredible leaps in mettulergy. Plasma burns at such a high temperature that no man known (that I know of) material can tolerate more than 30 seconds of exposure without being incinerated. If they have this, the US has a big problem, because not only are they stealth, but they are missle proof, and laser proof. The only way to penetrate their armor is through kinnetic weapons, and even those, with that kind of armor, who knows.

The other option would be force fields. Unfortunatelly, I don't know enough on the real world technology to be able to comment. I only know star trek tech from the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, which is dubious, to say the least. If the russians have developed this, wow. You guys just revolutionized...well, everything! Kudos!

Originally posted by junglejake


There are a couple of problems I see if this is accurate. Not to doubt you, but the story. If the Russians have developed this technology, and have tested it, they have made some incredible leaps in mettulergy. Plasma burns at such a high temperature that no man known (that I know of) material can tolerate more than 30 seconds of exposure without being incinerated. If they have this, the US has a big problem, because not only are they stealth, but they are missle proof, and laser proof. The only way to penetrate their armor is through kinnetic weapons, and even those, with that kind of armor, who knows.

The other option would be force fields. Unfortunatelly, I don't know enough on the real world technology to be able to comment. I only know star trek tech from the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, which is dubious, to say the least. If the russians have developed this, wow. You guys just revolutionized...well, everything! Kudos!

as i heard the aircraft will get up 8000 degrees hot...

Originally posted by FULCRUM

Originally posted by Russian
STFU!!!!

I also thing ALOT of people are tryed of debating the 22!!!!!

ITS A #EN OLD TOPIC!!!!! IT WAS DEBATE LIKE 100 TIMES!!!!

"F22 and Comanchie Are untouchable"

Theres nothing like good old base attack..

That is if this what are you claim would be true,

But it isnt..

So like Russian said:

STFU!

~But it isn't? Okay Fulcrum where's your undenyable source of straight facts to prove he's wrong? Gimme a list of a fighter better then the f-22. And dont say the s-37. And I didn't know of them russian folk to have any stealth helicopters either

although 8000 degrees is hot, that's no where near plasma. If, again, they're refering to the physics world's concept of plasma, and not just some nifty name. The properties of the plasma cloud coencide with the physical charicteristics of plasma, but I think an aircraft would reach over 8000 degrees.

Also, what is that glass for the cockpit made out of, or do they have a viewscreen?

Originally posted by Jeffrey


~But it isn't? Okay Fulcrum where's your undenyable source of straight facts to prove he's wrong? Gimme a list of a fighter better then the f-22. And dont say the s-37. And I didn't know of them russian folk to have any stealth helicopters either

the su-37 is not better then the f-22 and we never said it was...