FairTax

yeah man man i'm here to help I salavate just thinking about the fairtax not because it would allow me to improve the lives of my family (and friends if they need it ) I wouldn't have to worry about the funding for my kids college education 17 years from now and it would secure my future generations along with everyone elses who work hard for their money.

[edit on 8-1-2007 by ape]

[edit on 8-1-2007 by ape]

Well ape, I'll be honest...

My future is pretty well set barring any disasters, but it is folks like you, those that are planning the future of their children that this needs to be passed. That is why I fight for it. My girls are in their last year. (Thank the Lord)

The rich politicians don't care except for what it may gain them or put in their pockets.

Semper

Good job ape Ive been busy lately helping my roomate move.

What more can be said about the fairtax?

Well for starters, how about foreign tourist paying american taxes? Something they dont do right now. Even though they use social services such as our police forces, and various other services. Tourists don’t have jobs in the US, so they are not required to pay taxes. An estimated 50,000,000 tourist visit the US every year. Now thats alot of ppl. For 2006, there was an estimated 49.4 million tourists to the United States. They spent a record of 104.8 billion dollars while visiting the US. Think about how much tax revenue you could get off of all that!?

www.usatoday.com...

If we make international tourists tax payers by way of the consumption tax, tax revenue increases dramatically.

[edit on 103131p://3801pm by semperfoo]

Not just the Tourists, it may be our only chance to get a dollar or two from the Illegal Alien Invasion..

Or was that already mentioned?

Semper

well, after reading these posts....
I have to put in a few concerns...

I've listened some about the fair tax, I haven't written it off as a bad idea....I just don't think it's gonna bring in the kind of money our government it used to spending, of course, it isn't bringing in that kind of money now either, is it?

so, anyway...

someone suggested that having more people, with more buying power out shopping for goods will drive prices down. But then, if I have an auction up on ebay, and well, if there's alot of people wanting to buy it, I'm going to get a better price than if there's only two or three people interested, ain't I? and well, $100 dollars is alot of money to spend on a pair of sneakers if you are only making minimum wage isn't it? just think, if we were all making minimum wage, that $100 dollar pair of sneaker would probably cost a tad bit less, ya think? I somehow don't think that have more people with more money to spend is an effective way to lower prices....ain't saying that we should all be making minimum wage either...but well, it does seem that the people would be more willing to pay the higher prices if they found themselves with more money...and that's all the companies need.

when child health plus was started in NY, Blue Cross Blue shield got the great contract from the state. all these kids that were once uninsured, became insured which caused massive growth in the healthcare area. but well who benefitted? doctors and nursed did for sure, hospitals and such.....the people who were uninsured did....but for you average consumer, well, blue cross blue shield Increased their premiums.....why not, the government was willing to catch those who fell out, or so is the general thinking.. they didn't pass any of the new found windfall down to the consumer, neither did the hospitals or doctors for that matter. and well, the big beneficiary of all this was the CEO of blue cross blue shield, and the various departments presidents and ceo's...their salaries about doubled!!
In plain simple words....I have my doubts that the companies and businesses will let any of the benefits they see from a change in the tax system be passed down to all...they gonna keep in in their little circle on the top....where, well, ya some of it will be spent on consumer goods, but alot more will be invested, since well, you can only buy so much in consumer goods before you end up with a mansion so full of crap that you can't find room to walk into it!

someone suggested that we'd have all these new taxpaying tourists...but well, our stuff is already higher than most countries as it is, it might just kill the tourist industry maybe, since this tax would just make it that much higher.

and someone else suggested that it would increase high paying jobs....but then, any of those high paying jobs will come with a need for higher education, which only leads to a higher need for student loans, grants, ect. and we will all still want our little cashiers, burger flippers, office clerks, ect....and more than likely still be paying them so little that they skip away tax free.

the one good thing I see in it really, is that it cuts out one beuracractic monster, the IRS....and the cost associated with it...but then, well, I'm sure it won't take long for the polywogs in washington to find a suitable replacement to the IRS with more than likely a bigger budget. the government will still be spending more money than we taxpayers are gonna be willing to give them, the companies and corporations that are finding all these creative ways to avoid the share of taxes now will just be off scott free. and it will be mainly the middle class that will be expected to pick up for the millions and billions of dollars that is lost when all that capitol that the upper classes couldn't possibly spend in their lifetimes is invested instead.

but like I first pointed out in my previous posts....I think it would be much easier to avoid paying taxes with the fair tax system....If I get overtaxed or peeved off about something, I don't have to quit my job, just cut my spending down to the bare necessities, and well, save the rest...

Dawnster,

The fairtax is not perfect. However much better then any other taxation system currently out there. We the american ppl will see what our government is spending by making it more transparent to the american ppl. The fairtax has its cons, no doubt. But, just like any system it also has its pros with the fairtax pros far outwieghing the cons.

With the government spending more transparent to the american ppl and our GDP growing 2x-3x faster then it currently is, our debt, will virtually 'go away' for lack of better term. The FairTax solves the social security crisis, pays for Medicare, pays down the national debt, and releases our nation’s individuals and businesses to become as successful and productive as they desire. There have been estimates that our nation’s economy would more than double. Even if it only grew by only 40%, the investment and growth in the stock market alone would resolve all of the issues with the major airlines and automobile manufacturers. There will be good high paying 'jobs-a-plenty' for americans! The simplicity of the FairTax frees Americans from our current overwhelming tax code and unshackles the U.S. economy.


Will the fairtax make prices higher then they are now? No. Why? Because the costs of complying with our current tax system adds 20 to 30 percent to the costs of goods and services that we purchase now. The average is 22 percent. When the FairTax passes these hidden costs will go away. Competition will force prices down. When the FairTax, which is 23% is added on, total prices will be about the same as they are now. But workers will be taking home their gross pay and receive a monthly rebate. The rebate is intended to pay for the FairTax on purchases up to the poverty level. In other words the poor will pay ZERO federal taxes except for excise taxes. If they buy used items they will pay no FairTax on those items they purchase.


I would like to point out (again) that the fairtax has been heavily researched and debated for the past 10 years. And like stated before, many economist (75 in all) agree that the fairtax is best for america. Many agreeing with the fact that our economy would grow 10.5% in the first year of the fairtax. Doubling our current GDP size by 2015.

Dawnster. check out the link below. It deals with the economic benefits of the fairtax and compares it to our current tax system. It explains alot.
www.fairtax.org...

And about the global economy.
www.fairtax.org...

The fairtax will higher american wages as well.
www.fairtax.org...


Semperfortis, Yea man we touched up on that earlier. But just to echo it again, illegal aliens who get paid "under the table" will have to pay taxes because when they purchase goods at the checkout counter they are paying our taxes. The fairtax will also make americans more competitve with illegal aliens for jobs.

Semperfoo,

Have you ever attended one of the Fair Tax meetings?

They are having one near me in the near future and I was wondering if it is worth attending??

Thanks

Semper

Yea. I had to go to a seminar about the fairtax for extra credit.
Thats one of the reasons why i got into the fairtax.

You should go for it man. Why not?

by dawnstar
and someone else suggested that it would increase high paying jobs....but then, any of those high paying jobs will come with a need for higher education, which only leads to a higher need for student loans, grants, ect. and we will all still want our little cashiers, burger flippers, office clerks, ect....and more than likely still be paying them so little that they skip away tax free.

yes it would increase the payraises companies fork out , people always look at companies as the evil villans when the people running these companies have to comply with a complex tax code making some of them go overseas to make a profit which is unfair and counter-productive. you have to understand that once this burden is released from them they will have no choice but to pay employees higher wages because not only can they afford it they will be competing with other businesses and small businesses who are willing to increase employee wages, it's would work out great and is a fine example of competition which is healthy in any democracy and capialist society and this includes 'burger flippin' jobs etc which you seem to adress in a rather insulting manner. those people flippin those burgers are doing the people a service who enjoy eating those burgers and they are working for their money instead of living soley off the government and my tax dollars, I commend anyone who works in this society as they contribute to the country.

secondly the interest rates for studen loans would be cut big time making it less stressfull about payments for the education you received, here is some information.

fairtax.org...









[edit on 9-1-2007 by ape]

There is no job that is NOT worth doing to the absolute best of one's abilities..

There is also no job that one should not be proud of..

I often wonder what would happen if Rush went to get his Burger and there was no one there to make it for him? As he is most famous for his lack of respect for those that do manual labor.

Semper

I thought I would post some news on the fairtax to keep this thread alive and kicking.

John Linder re-introduces the FairTax
1/9/2007

On January 4, 2007, the first day of the new 110th Congress, Rep. John Linder [GA-7] introduced HR 25, the Fair Tax Act of 2007. Rep. Linder introduced the bill "to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States."



In the 109th Congress, the Fair Tax Act of 2005 had 63 co-sponsors in the House and Senate, far more than any other tax reform bill. When the new Congress convened in the beginning of January, all the legislation of the past two years expired (with the exception of treaties), clearing the slates of co-sponsors as well, and a new legislative year began. Rep. Linder introduced the bill as he has done in each Congress since 1999, and it was immediately referred to the House Ways and Means Committee. By the end of the day on January 5, the FairTax bill already had 27 co-sponsors! If your representative was previously a co-sponsor, contact their office and remind them that you’re expecting to see their name return quickly to the co-sponsor list. If your representative has not yet co-sponsored, call and tell them why they should!

www.fairtax.org...

So does this mean that Fair Tax has a chance at passing or what??? With the Pay as you go spending bill does that mean they would have to get money that they will lose from some other place right??? I also looked at the list of co sponsors and why is all but one a republican???



[edit on 12-1-2007 by spinstopshere]

because democrats now'a'days are all about taxation and bigger government control over everything, take a good look at how they are trying to do away with competition by taking control and negotiating drug prices, it's obsurd. they want control over everything and they want to turn america into socialist europe, arnold that damn socialist making californias pay for the medical of illegals? I dont think so that man will be voted out what a piece of austrian garbage, I'm from cali and im offended.


the fairtax has been researched, I have come to the conclusion anyone who does not support it is against the true american dream and against americas best interests in general, democrats in power right now scare the hell out of me and I have a good feeling their stay will be limited.

[edit on 12-1-2007 by ape]

I agree completely and one can only hope their stay is limited...

Americans are far to "comfy" with a Status Quo, so I wont be surprised at any outcome..

Semper

Yea dems are all for bigger government which means less power for the American ppl. They say they "represent" the little guy, which is nothing more then a joke.

The only Dem that I would possibly vote for would be mike gravel. He seems to want the best for the american ppl. He is a staunch supporter of the fairtax as well.

I found this article on the fairtax site. Its a pretty good read. It talks about Mike Gravel, who is a presidential candidate for 08'.
www.washblade.com...


He really seems to want what the american ppl want. Making America a 'true' democracy.

The below are some things Ive taken off a site that he supports and says he will do if elected president. Some views are a bit extreme. But I think he reall wants the best for america. Maybe a guy like Mike Gravel is who the american ppl really need? Maybe not. Decide foryourself.

* Commence an immediate and orderly withdrawal from Iraq;
* Raze Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib prisons to the ground;
* Stop Congress from raiding the Social Security Trust Fund;
* Initiate a Universal Single Payer Healthcare Plan;
* Abolish the Federal Income Tax & IRS, replacing them with the "Fair Tax" (a national sales tax);
* End the war against America's veterans; and
* Ask the American people to enact The National Initiative for Democracy so that you can decide on our agenda and all of the issues that affect your lives

www.gravel2008.us...

He is a long shot and probably wont get in due to some conflicting veiws he has.

For instance Gauntanamo bay. I personally dont think you can simply shut it down just because you think its immoral. We are still at war with extremist who want to kill us for many reasons and at any cost which is immoral. We simply cant lay down our gaurd, not now. Not in these times. There are many more. But he does seem to want the best for the american ppl.

Anyways. What say you?

I got nothing....


[edit on 013131p://0201am by semperfoo]

[edit on 013131p://0401am by semperfoo]

Well other than Iraq and Guantanamo, I like his ideas...

But you are correct in that it is too radical for the average American "Joe" to every seriously consider...

He is also a relative unknown on the political stage against names like McCain, Clinton etc...

But who knows? Stranger things have happened...

Semper

Yea semper I agree. He also doesnt have the $$$ backing that the above mentioned have.

I found this article on the fairtax site.
Pretty scary direction this country seems to be going in.

A grim outlook

The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office offered a sobering report to the Senate last Thursday on how deeply in debt this nation really is.

According to the head of that office, U.S. Comptroller General David Walker, the government has promised more benefits to recipients of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid than it can pay. The government’s total liabilities to social insurance programs total $50 trillion, approximately four times the nation’s economic output. That liability was $20 trillion in 2000.

Walker, quoted in a story from the Cox News Service, told the Senate that the budget is on a “imprudent and unsustainable” path because Congress has been cutting taxes since 2001 while increasing spending at substantial levels. The cost of the war in Iraq isn’t helping matters either.

The Bush administration had promised the tax cuts would spur economic growth, which would make up for the short-term revenue loss. “We cannot grow our way out of this problem,” Walker told senators. “The math just doesn’t work.”

Things will get bleaker once the 70 million baby boomers begin retiring next year, he said.

Walker listed several things Congress must do to deal with this problem:

– Improve accounting transparency to show the real cost of federal programs and tax cuts.

– Institute strict budget controls to stop lawmakers from boosting short-term deficits.

– Retool Social Security and Medicare so the government can meet its promises.

– Reform the health care system to lower Medicare costs.

– Simply the tax code to boost compliance and generate more revenues.

We encourage Congress to take seriously what the comptroller general had to say and act on his recommendations. This nation is facing staggering financial problems that, as Walker said, must be dealt with in a bipartisan manner.

Putting our nation’s financial house in order won’t be easy – or popular. But it must be done, sooner or later.

www.timesreporter.com...
The fairtax would go a long way in getting us back on the right track.



[edit on 063131p://0201pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 063131p://0501pm by semperfoo]

I am a firm believer in the "Baby Steps" concept....

With all of the major things going wrong in the Country right now, perhaps the institution of the Fair Tax system is just the shot of adrenaline this Country needs....

The impact of that much more money flowing into the economy will produce reactions that as yet are unseen. Just the tax cuts super charged the economy, imagine what that kind of influx will do!!!!

Semperfoo do you or anyone have a copy of a standard letter to mail out to Congressmen and Representatives in support of the Fair Tax???

Thanks

Semper

one thing is for sure, it couldn't do much worse than what we have now.

a word about growth though....

cancers grow also ya know.

the area I am living in now is experiencing alot of growth. things are being built all over the place. bigger mansions are being built while the not so big mansions are being abandoned. nicer malls and storefronts are being built while others sit empty....we have one mall, ain't nothing terribly wrong with it, but there is nothing in it hardly, a fabric store and the dmv....wow!!!
what a waste of resources. face it, a community can only consume so many meals, so many hotel rooms, so many consumer products....so many houses.
the rest sit unused, wasted. and unless we plan on turning our country over to foreigners through immigration, well, our population should be decreasing somewhat over the next half century or so, there will be less need for all this stuff. our children, and their children, just might decide that that nice new house that you are building now, should be torn down for a park, since there are twice as many houses as there is people to occupy them.

if you want my opinion, our economy should be contracting sometime in the near future, and our government needs to contract also....they need to cut down their expenses, it's the only thing that will help.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am a firm believer in the "Baby Steps" concept....

With all of the major things going wrong in the Country right now, perhaps the institution of the Fair Tax system is just the shot of adrenaline this Country needs....

The impact of that much more money flowing into the economy will produce reactions that as yet are unseen. Just the tax cuts super charged the economy, imagine what that kind of influx will do!!!!

Semperfoo do you or anyone have a copy of a standard letter to mail out to Congressmen and Representatives in support of the Fair Tax???

Thanks

Semper

Just sign the petition.
www.fairtax.org...

they will send a letter to your state represenative.