Painting the sky..(pics)

Well he is a goof.

Besides he removed the chemtrails reference in the bill claiming �I�m not into that.�

Maybe someone clued him into the fact that he would be ripped to shreds by his political opposition for falling for a silly hoax. As it is, It might still come back to haunt him.

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by tracer
I dont know, I believe there is something to these Chemtrails. Can anyone explain why a politician would put a bill in the House [HR2977] and specifically mention Chemtrails in the wording, amongst other things if there isn't anything being sprayed other than just plain Contrails?

www.fas.org...

Maybe it is because Kucinich is a raving goof.

AffirmativeReaction,
I think tracer was referring to the explanation that HowardRoark provided in regards to Dennis Kucinich and his proposal.

Ok, then they are BOTH good explinations!!!

Originally posted by darklanser
This corresponds to the press saying that this new strain of super-flu will be bad this winter. Maybe they are the ones who are spreading the flu. It seems like lots of people in these spray areas get sick soon after chemtrails are sighted.

(I'm highly paranoid today....please excuse me.)

What do you mean it corrosponds, I can remember seeing these trails in the sky for years, since I was very young.

Originally posted by Seapeople
I can remember seeing these trails in the sky for years, since I was very young.

I remember seeing those trails when I was a child, too.

I do not recall them in such high numbers, nor do I recall them covering the entire sky.

I saw a contrail today. The contrail stayed just behind the aircraft and did not leave a 'trail' in the sky.

Ok, let's look at some facts.

Fact 1: Thursday, December 4, 2003, these 'trails' were present.
Fact 2. The trails formed a 'cloud' cover over the blue sky.
Fact 3. "Sundog's" were present in the sky (rainbow spots previously discussed)
Fact 4. Approximately three hours after the first trails were sighted, aircraft came back and left even more trails.
Fact 5. The weather cooled off quite a bit that evening.

Fact 6. None of these trails had been observed since December 4, 2003.
Fact 7. Contrails were seen, on several occassions, but they stayed just behind the aircraft without leaving a trail in the sky.
Fact 8. No "sundog's" had been seen since December 4, 2003.

More facts?

Fact 9. Thursday, December 11, 2003, these 'trails' were present.
Fact 10.The trails formed a 'cloud' cover over the blue sky.
Fact 11. "Sundog's" were present in the sky.
Fact 12. Approximately three hours after the first trails were sighted, aircraft came through and produced more trails.
Fact 13. The weather is cooler than it was last ThursDAY. I suppose we'll wait and see what happens with the weather tonight.

There you have it. These 'trails' were sighted EXACTLY one week apart. The timing was almost EXACT. They behaved in the same manner, on both Thursdays, spraying early in the morning and then a few hours thereafter. Hmm, a mere coincidence? I think not.

"Contrails will spread and form into a cloud under the right circumstances." Eh, really? Well, what do you know?! Two Thursdays, in a row, the weather/temperatures permitted these formations....DURING THE SAME HOURS!...almost to the minute! OH MY!

Originally posted by Bangin


I remember seeing those trails when I was a child, too.

I do not recall them in such high numbers, nor do I recall them covering the entire sky.

Was that back in the days of regulated air fares?

The amount of air traffic in the sky today doesn�t even come close to the amount 20 or even 10 years ago.

I saw a contrail today. The contrail stayed just behind the aircraft and did not leave a 'trail' in the sky.

Good, now for your science quiz question, What does that tell you about the relative humidity at the altitude that the plane was flying?

Ok, let's look at some facts.

Fact 1: Thursday, December 4, 2003, these 'trails' were present.

Ok, the weather was right for persistent contrail formation.

Fact 2. The trails formed a 'cloud' cover over the blue sky. .

Ok, one of two possibilities here, a front was moving through and the sky would have clouded over regardless of whether or not there were planes in the sky, or you had super saturation conditions. Either way both are common place and happen all the time.

Did you bother to check with the weather service to see if there was a front moving through?

Fact 3. "Sundog's" were present in the sky (rainbow spots previously discussed).

Sundogs are related to high altitude cirrus clouds. They have been documented for centuries.

Do you understand how rainbows and sundogs are formed?

Fact 4. Approximately three hours after the first trails were sighted, aircraft came back and left even more trails..

WTF. How in the world can you possibly claim that these were the same aircraft? Airlines fly regular routes. Some even have more than one flight to the same destination on a single day!

Why don�t you subscribe to Flight Explorer and find out just what planes are above you.

Fact 5. The weather cooled off quite a bit that evening..

Yeah, it tends to do that a lot this time of year.

Fact 6. None of these trails had been observed since December 4, 2003. .

What do you do when the TV weatherman comes on and shows the map of the U.S. with the fronts moving across it? How hard is it to understand the weather changes from day to day.

Fact 7. Contrails were seen, on several occassions, but they stayed just behind the aircraft without leaving a trail in the sky. .

Again, what does this tell you about the relative humidity?

Fact 8. No "sundog's" had been seen since December 4, 2003..

Then there were no high altitude cirrus clouds, were there?

More facts?

Fact 9. Thursday, December 11, 2003, these 'trails' were present.
Fact 10.The trails formed a 'cloud' cover over the blue sky.
Fact 11. "Sundog's" were present in the sky.
Fact 12. Approximately three hours after the first trails were sighted, aircraft came through and produced more trails.
Fact 13. The weather is cooler than it was last ThursDAY. I suppose we'll wait and see what happens with the weather tonight..

Welcome to winter.

There you have it. These 'trails' were sighted EXACTLY one week apart. The timing was almost EXACT. They behaved in the same manner, on both Thursdays, spraying early in the morning and then a few hours thereafter. Hmm, a mere coincidence? I think not. .

"Contrails will spread and form into a cloud under the right circumstances." Eh, really? Well, what do you know?! Two Thursdays, in a row, the weather/temperatures permitted these formations....DURING THE SAME HOURS!...almost to the minute! OH MY!

.

I�ll have to speak with central dispatch about that. You were supposed to be targeted on Friday.

Seriously now, all joking aside, don�t you think that that is stretching a coincidence a little too far? This time of year, weather fronts move through on a regular basis.

Here is an interesting article i found from NASA. They took the opertunity to study relationship between aviation and clouds after the 9-11 incident happened since airtraffic was halted for a few days (or how ever long it was).

www.larc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Seriously now, all joking aside, don�t you think that that is stretching a coincidence a little too far? This time of year, weather fronts move through on a regular basis.

You know, HowardRoark, I thought about responding to each of your points up until the time that I read the above mentioned quote.

Stretching this coincidence a little too far? What am I stretching? I simply posted my observations. That's it.

This event happened at almost the exact time, one week apart, and you do not question that? What else can I say? I had not noticed this since last Thursday. I did not report, in this thread, noticing these trails after December 4, 2003. Today, coincidentally, I noticed the trails & sundog. The trails were not as plentiful as the last time, thank goodness, and more similar to previous sprayings. I have noticed these trails before, but never in the numbers as last Thursday.

You know, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that something is out of place. I'm sharing my observations, of what I believe to be strange activity, and you can make what you want of it. I have nothing to prove..period. I'd love to be wrong...BELIEVE ME!

FYI, I hate this editing system.

Tracking the formation of contrails is key to determining their contribution to cirrus clouds and their effect on the energy balance.

[Edited on 12/11/2003 by Bangin]

lets all sing:

theres no such thing as chemtrails, youre all just #ing crazy, theres no such thing as chemtrails, youre all just #ing crazy.

i can understand deny ignorance but when there is a perfectly good explaination that is far more simple than the shadow men spray chemicals over our cities, its time to give it a rest. contrails form everywhere, not just over major cities. thats one deciding fact everyone here has overlooked.

I had to double post because of this crappy editing system!

This is what my post should have read:

Thanks for the link, jra.

I found the following quote to be very interesting.

Tracking the formation of contrails is key to determining their contribution to cirrus clouds and their effect on the energy balance.

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Seapeople
I can remember seeing these trails in the sky for years, since I was very young.

I remember seeing those trails when I was a child, too.

I do not recall them in such high numbers, nor do I recall them covering the entire sky.

I saw a contrail today. The contrail stayed just behind the aircraft and did not leave a 'trail' in the sky.

Ok, let's look at some facts.

Fact 1: Thursday, December 4, 2003, these 'trails' were present.
Fact 2. The trails formed a 'cloud' cover over the blue sky.
Fact 3. "Sundog's" were present in the sky (rainbow spots previously discussed)
Fact 4. Approximately three hours after the first trails were sighted, aircraft came back and left even more trails.
Fact 5. The weather cooled off quite a bit that evening.

Fact 6. None of these trails had been observed since December 4, 2003.
Fact 7. Contrails were seen, on several occassions, but they stayed just behind the aircraft without leaving a trail in the sky.
Fact 8. No "sundog's" had been seen since December 4, 2003.

More facts?

Fact 9. Thursday, December 11, 2003, these 'trails' were present.
Fact 10.The trails formed a 'cloud' cover over the blue sky.
Fact 11. "Sundog's" were present in the sky.
Fact 12. Approximately three hours after the first trails were sighted, aircraft came through and produced more trails.
Fact 13. The weather is cooler than it was last ThursDAY. I suppose we'll wait and see what happens with the weather tonight.

There you have it. These 'trails' were sighted EXACTLY one week apart. The timing was almost EXACT. They behaved in the same manner, on both Thursdays, spraying early in the morning and then a few hours thereafter. Hmm, a mere coincidence? I think not.

"Contrails will spread and form into a cloud under the right circumstances." Eh, really? Well, what do you know?! Two Thursdays, in a row, the weather/temperatures permitted these formations....DURING THE SAME HOURS!...almost to the minute! OH MY!

JESUS #ING CHRIST THERE ARE CLOUDS IN THIS WORLD WE CALL EARTH. it would take a MASSIVE effort to "cover the sky", one so huge it would be completely impossible to discredit. now unless they are spraying some kind of intelligent chemicals that evenly disperse themselves over a LARGE AREA (hundreds of sq. miles? yea right) then this is all bs. you see some contrails, later in the day some high atmosphere clouds move in and OMG CHEMICALS PORKCHOP SANDWICHES # WERE ALL DEAD!!


gah, the fact we can argue over something so blatantly clear and documented is frustrating to me.

edit: and to debunk the "facts" here, science uses a 'control' in most experiments done to find a 'fact'. this control exists as a kind of guide, and unchanging non-variable in the experiment. the earth and its atmosphere are two VERY volatile variables here, and we CANNOT take untrained observations over a period of simply several days as hard scientific fact. period.


[Edited on 11-12-2003 by forsakenwayfarer]

Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
JESUS #ING CHRIST THERE ARE CLOUDS IN THIS WORLD WE CALL EARTH. OMG CHEMICALS PORKCHOP SANDWICHES # WERE ALL DEAD!!

Why get so emotional over nothing?

I'm not attempting to argue with anyone, nor do I want to debate. Perhaps I'm delusional and this isn't really happening. So be it. I've seen many people, especially on this board, rant about things that I don't see as important...or pointless to discuss. This topic, however, interests me.

Are you honestly trying to say that before last week, airplanes over your head never left contrails that didn't dissappear directly behind the aircraft? so how long did they last before that?????

get your chemtrail detox while you still can www.herbalhealer.com...

CHECK OUT THIS SATELLITE PHOTO OF CHEMTRAILS OVER IRAQ DURING
THE WAR IN 1991


www.skyhighway.com...

How do you know they are chemtrails and not contrails from fighter aircraft and bombers and the like?... i mean it is Iraq during the war. you're bound to get lots of contrails from aircraft flying all over the place. especialy the ones at high altitudes.

[Edited on 12-12-2003 by jra]

Originally posted by porschedrifter
CHECK OUT THIS SATELLITE PHOTO OF CHEMTRAILS OVER IRAQ DURING
THE WAR IN 1991


www.skyhighway.com...

Well, now you are getting into an area where I AM an expert...what you are seeing in the photo offered is CONTRAILS (not chemtrails) from USAF Aerial Refueling aircraft...KC-10's and KC-135's. Those are classic air refueling tracts. Sorry, no chemtrails here, either....

i didn't believe the chemtrail thing until lately, now i want to know more. i know what a condensation trail looks like, about two weeks ago i spotted two planes in the sky that appeared to be at similar altitudes. the problem with one of the planes is that the condensation trail came from the whole wing sections and did not dissipate but it appeared to expand, i watched it for about thirty minutes and it still just hung there, but the entire trail was moving with the upper winds of course. by the way the other plane seemed to have a normal contrail and it dissipated after only a few minutes. i do understand that the altitude difference may play a part in this, but i found it kind of odd. i also have a small pond in my backyard that no one really has access to except for me and on this day there was an oil like slick on top of it, odd thing is the pumps to the pond were off and they are not in the water anyway, just seems odd. but i need more proof to be convinced

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Are you honestly trying to say that before last week, airplanes over your head never left contrails that didn't dissappear directly behind the aircraft? so how long did they last before that?????

No, I'm not trying to say that.

I've seen these trails before, just not in the numbers as Dec. 4, 2003. In the past, I've reported seeing these trails in other threads.

I've seen contrails that didn't disappear directly behind the aircraft. An example would be when the craft went through a cloud, the trail would linger for a few minutes. I've never seen a contrail linger for hours and create a cloud cover....Not until 'these' started popping up.

I posted a link earlier in this thread, but it's doubtful that many of you clicked on it. I'm going to post the link again, and quote some of the material provided in the link. I urge each of you to look at the link for more information.

www.abovetopsecret.com... t=

Originally posted by MKULTRA

A global, precise, real-time, robust, systematic weather-modification capability would provide war-fighting CINCs with a powerful force multiplier to achieve military objectives. Since weather will be common to all possible futures, a weather-modification capability would be universally applicable and have utility across the entire spectrum of conflict. The capability of influencing the weather even on a small scale could change it from a force degrader to a force multiplier.

www.maxwell.af.mil...

Mycroft, thanks for posting that link, the site is full of information and it will take me a LONG time to sift through it!

Above we see an acknowledgment of the importance of weather modification technology. It has been hypothesized that chemtrails are critical in this technology.

And now we see them talking about dispersing carbon black dust in the air:

This study by William M. Gray, et al., investigated the hypothesis that "significant beneficial influences can be derived through judicious exploitation of the solar absorption potential of carbon black dust."21 The study ultimately found that this technology could be used to enhance rainfall on the mesoscale, generate cirrus clouds, and enhance cumulonimbus (thunderstorm) clouds in otherwise dry areas.

The technology can be described as follows. Just as a black tar roof easily absorbs solar energy and subsequently radiates heat during a sunny day, carbon black also readily absorbs solar energy. When dispersed in microscopic or "dust" form in the air over a large body of water, the carbon becomes hot and heats the surrounding air, thereby increasing the amount of evaporation from the body of water below. As the surrounding air heats up, parcels of air will rise and the water vapor contained in the rising air parcel will eventually condense to form clouds. Over time the cloud droplets increase in size as more and more water vapor condenses, and eventually they become too large and heavy to stay suspended and will fall as rain or other forms of precipitation.

And perhaps the smoking gun of chemtrails, they admit (In Chapter 4) that the best way to "disperse" the carbon black dust is by using jet engines:

Numerous dispersal techniques have already been studied, but the most convenient, safe, and cost-effective method discussed is the use of afterburner-type jet engines to generate carbon particles while flying through the targeted air. This method is based on injection of liquid hydrocarbon fuel into the afterburner's combustion gases. This direct generation method was found to be more desirable than another plausible method (i.e., the transport of large quantities of previously produced and properly sized carbon dust to the desired altitude).

As you say, "C'mon! Jets leave contrails. It's water vapor, nothing more." In fact it appears to be much more.

There is also mention of using "chemical nuclei" to seed clouds in order to suppress precipitation:

If clouds were seeded (using chemical nuclei similar to those used today or perhaps a more effective agent discovered through continued research) before their downwind arrival to a desired location, the result could be a suppression of precipitation. In other words, precipitation could be "forced" to fall before its arrival in the desired territory, thereby making the desired territory "dry."

Regarding ionospheric modification:

Modification of the ionosphere to enhance or disrupt communications has recently become the subject of active research. According to Lewis M. Duncan, and Robert L. Showen, the Former Soviet Union (FSU) conducted theoretical and experimental research in this area at a level considerably greater than comparable programs in the West.

and..

Moreover, developing countries also recognize the benefit of ionospheric modification: "in the early 1980's, Brazil conducted an experiment to modify the ionosphere by chemical injection."

Thoughts?

So, what is being sprayed in these skies?

Goals to 'own the weather' by 2025?! Project obviously underway, but is the method(s) harmful to us? If not, should we be told if ANYTHING is being dispersed into the skies? Absolutely.

Originally posted by razorbackhater
i didn't believe the chemtrail thing until lately, now i want to know more. i know what a condensation trail looks like, about two weeks ago i spotted two planes in the sky that appeared to be at similar altitudes. the problem with one of the planes is that the condensation trail came from the whole wing sections and did not dissipate but it appeared to expand, i watched it for about thirty minutes and it still just hung there, but the entire trail was moving with the upper winds of course. by the way the other plane seemed to have a normal contrail and it dissipated after only a few minutes. i do understand that the altitude difference may play a part in this, but i found it kind of odd.

the operative statement here is �appeared to be at similar altitudes.� It is almost impossible to judge the height of an airplane visually. Airliners come in all different sizes. If you don�t know what type of planes they were then you don�t know if one was bigger than the other. Therefore they may have �appeared� to be at different altitudes when in fact they weren�t Furthermore, it appears that often the demarcation between conditions that produce persistent contrails and those that don�t may not be that big. In other words there may not be a big difference in altitude between a persistent contrail and one that dissipates quickly. For a good example of this go back to page 3 and 4 and look at the picture of the B-17 formation flying over Europe in WWII.

i also have a small pond in my backyard that no one really has access to except for me and on this day there was an oil like slick on top of it, odd thing is the pumps to the pond were off and they are not in the water anyway, just seems odd. but i need more proof to be convinced

So the pumps were off and the water was stagnant and you noticed a �slick?� was it a true oil slick or was it a stagnant water/ protein scum slick? Is this a koi pond?

Lets do some math shall we?

Lets say an airplane were to fly overhead at, lets say 10,000 meters (or approximately 32,800 feet, a commonly used flight level for commercial airliners). That is about 6 miles over your head.

Now lets say that this plane is a �megasprayer� and that it is dispersing spherical chemtrail particles 10 um in diameter, which is pretty big in terms of aerosol particle diameter. Let�s make the particle fairly dense. Let�s make it equal to steel or 7850 kg/m3.

We have a Standard Atmosphere with no cross wind.

If we Calculate the terminal settling velocity, we find that it will take 4.8 days for the particles to reach ground level.

Now if we have a modest cross wind of 3 MPH, then the particle will settle to the ground 346 miles away from you.

It is mighty hard to hit a koi pond with those kinds of numbers.