Painting the sky..(pics)

AffirmativeReaction, you say that as if all conspiracy theorists are nuts. If you don't think that people in high places conspire against other people, then you're in for a rude awakening.

This may be a difficult operation to prove, but that doesn't mean something isn't happening. My eyes and experiences tell their own story. With a little help from NASA and USAF, I'm convinced this is an operation that WILL take place, if not already. Why it seems out of grasp, for some, is beyond me.

I will walk away from this thread with mixed feelings. One of those feelings will be of a sore throat due to attempts made by some to shove their beliefs down it. I will also feel unsettled because I believe something foul is going on in our skies. Lastly, I will walk away feeling rich due to the posts that MY thread has generated. Thank you all for your responses!

Although I have certain abusive individuals in the ignore box, another certain poster asked me to find information on a subject I happen to be somewhat of an expert on, that being aerospace/aviation weather. Some poor individual is incapable of doing even the most rudimentary research, and actually stated this:...

"it's just that i don't think the air is freezing a thousand feet up on a hot summer's day."

Ok, I REALLY hate to rub the puppy's nose in it, but that is an utterly ridiculous statement. I don't think. How, with all the information at our fingertips today, can someone make such a potentially embarrassing statement? I hate to do this again, but I must prove that people who don't give proof of their statements and simply shoot from the hip will eventually shoot themselves in the willy....

Go to this link...

adds.aviationweather.gov...

select "temperature" from the four choices above the square flight level depicters (it's defaulted to winds), then look at surface temps by clicking on the bottom square. back out, and compare them to the other FL's (flight levels) Temps are in Celsius, so 0 (zero) is freezing. At as little as 3,000 ft MSL the temps are freezing in many locations. now look at the 30, 000 to 36,000 foot range, where most airliners fly. Remarkable, eh? Even though it's around 30C in the Cuba area, the hottest area on the map this time of year, at 30,000 feet, it's -55C!!!!! But then, it CAN'T be freezing way up high in the air, can it?


I rest my case....

Originally posted by Bangin
AffirmativeReaction, you say that as if all conspiracy theorists are nuts. If you don't think that people in high places conspire against other people, then you're in for a rude awakening.

This may be a difficult operation to prove, but that doesn't mean something isn't happening. My eyes and experiences tell their own story. With a little help from NASA and USAF, I'm convinced this is an operation that WILL take place, if not already. Why it seems out of grasp, for some, is beyond me.

I will walk away from this thread with mixed feelings. One of those feelings will be of a sore throat due to attempts made by some to shove their beliefs down it. I will also feel unsettled because I believe something foul is going on in our skies. Lastly, I will walk away feeling rich due to the posts that MY thread has generated. Thank you all for your responses!

You can take my response any way you wish to, Jason, but if you read what I wrote, I was being as ridiculous as I could as to show that many conspiracy theorists are in fact WAY out there, but most are just normal folk who want to believe in something. The only people who you should feel are trying to shove their beliefs down your throat are the ones who offer no proof whatsoever of what they claim. Those of us who back our statements with good scientific information are the ones who are putting it out there for you to decide. Like I said before, but joked about, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Here's something I try to live by, and it might help you a bit, but again, take it or leave it...it's up to you...

If something is too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true....

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
You can take my response any way you wish to, Jason, ::snip::

Why did you call me Jason? This is the third time in this thread that I've been called Jason. Perhaps I'm missing out on some inside joke?! HowardRoark has called me Jason twice and now AffirmativeReaction has called me Jason. I'm assuming you two are the same guy?! So, tell me, why do you call me Jason?

Originally posted by dexxy

Well, what are conspiracies but good questions with little supporting evidence. Sure there are different levels of suspiscon and conviction, I appreciate logic, I don't appreciate being bullied because of someone elses convictions. Unlike the Scientific Method, the world is not black and white. Governments are not necessarily concerned about our health and welfare.

Many things are rotten out there, for my own sake, and that of the people around me, I'd like to know about them. If this means sometimes going against 'Scientific Method, then so be it. Obfuscation to control bias and opinion is an interesting study.

HR, AR, SA, I wouldn't go so far as to commend you yet, but its been alot of fun so far.

On the same line of what I just said to Bangin, the people who are bullying you are the ones who say, "This is true because I SAY it's true, and I don't have to prove it because you have to believe me because the government is evil and I know it and I told you so, so believe me, not the cohearant scientific evidence...."


I just report the facts....


"Just the facts, Ma'am..."
Joe Friday

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
You can take my response any way you wish to, Jason, ::snip::

Why did you call me Jason? This is the third time in this thread that I've been called Jason. Perhaps I'm missing out on some inside joke?! HowardRoark has called me Jason twice and now AffirmativeReaction has called me Jason. I'm assuming you two are the same guy?! So, tell me, why do you call me Jason?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!


I assure you we are not the same guy...I was just ribbing you a bit, as I saw how ape# you went when HR called you that....

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
I assure you we are not the same guy...I was just ribbing you a bit, as I saw how ape# you went when HR called you that....

Yeah, sure. Rib at something else.

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
I assure you we are not the same guy...I was just ribbing you a bit, as I saw how ape# you went when HR called you that....

Yeah, sure. Rib at something else.

Oh come on, have a sense of humor!!!!

AR,

One of my standby's is 'Any point of view can be argued sucessfully'. It depends on the skills of the individual and the use of fact to support their own arguments. Fact can be a real slppery fish.

Now, of course there is a 'real' truth, which more often than not, the Scientific Method supports. There has been many times in history when 'men of science have been the opressor to discovery of fact.

It looks like 99% of 'chemtrails' are contrails, I'd like to nail down the other 1%. Is someone fooking with the weather and/or the atmosphere?

Originally posted by THENEO
Frankly your names don't matter because it appears to me that you are either:

1. the same person
2. part of the same operation
3. from the same organization

or add the truth where it is applicable.

I don't know what your problem is but YOU and a few other new people that inhabit this thread have a STRONG need to fight with people. But that is not the problem, you have been directed to dozens among hundreds of websites that exist on the web and if you wish you can fight with these people.

I frankly do not have time for this nor do I have to prove anything to you. With my own eyes and numerous hours of investigation in the past and also based on observations and affects on other people I soundly came to the conclusion that this is a real conspiracy.

That is it, accept it, deal with it, too bad for you.

I have worse news for you too my friend, once you become brave enough and enlightened enough to see this conspiracy for what it is then you are facing numerous others. I don't know if you can handle it really.

You keep saying that...again, to shift attention awat from the fact that you dont'have a leg to stand on. Every, and I do mean EVERY, web site you have refered to is nothing but more unsubstantiated balderdash...more heresay...no proof, no research, no facts, just trash!!! YOU sir, are the one who needs to get over yourself. You are the one who needs to prove your claims. As another poster here has siad, it is impossible to prove/disprove a negative. Therefore, to create a positive, you must prove it.....That is it, accept it, deal with it, too bad for you.


As far as, "1. the same person
2. part of the same operation
3. from the same organization

or add the truth where it is applicable."

Here's the truth...you don't have a clue what you are talking about on this matter as well....

Originally posted by dexxy
AR,

One of my standby's is 'Any point of view can be argued sucessfully'. It depends on the skills of the individual and the use of fact to support their own arguments. Fact can be a real slppery fish.

Now, of course there is a 'real' truth, which more often than not, the Scientific Method supports. There has been many times in history when 'men of science have been the opressor to discovery of fact.

It looks like 99% of 'chemtrails' are contrails, I'd like to nail down the other 1%. Is someone fooking with the weather and/or the atmosphere?

You know what? That's probably the most lucid argument I have heard from the other side of the coin in this entire thread! More power to you! I would love to be proven wrong, however, I don't believe there is any conspiracy here, (in the chemtrail issue) so I don't believe I ever will be. While there are those here who will continue the name calling and "because I say so" attitide, I will stick to my guns that you have to prove to me that something exists. They can't say, for example,"Dragons exist because I say so, and until you prove to me that they don't exist, they do". Pretty stupid, eh? But it's exactly the tactic being used here! No proof, no evidence. Get me some that is verifyable, and I'll start thinking differently

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
I would love to be proven wrong, however, I don't believe there is any conspiracy here, (in the chemtrail issue) so I don't believe I ever will be.

Eh, why would you love to be proven wrong? That doesn't make any sense?!

I believe something is being sprayed in the air, so I would love to be proven wrong. It makes sense when I say it because I believe harm is being done.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction


"it's just that i don't think the air is freezing a thousand feet up on a hot summer's day."

At as little as 3,000 ft MSL the temps are freezing in many locations. now look at the 30, 000 to 36,000 foot range, where most airliners fly. Remarkable, eh? Even though it's around 30C in the Cuba area, the hottest area on the map this time of year, at 30,000 feet, it's -55C!!!!! But then, it CAN'T be freezing way up high in the air, can it?

i rest mine using your imformation. i clearly stated one thousand. it starts as low as 3000. i've seen mountains in summer at th 48th parallel, so i don't need fancy shamncy math to know what snow looks like(which is something i love to rub my puppies nose in)

and, once again, not only do we get the facts, but they come with spewing bile and vitriol. are all scientific debates so hateful?
anyone who wants to see who has been the most abusive in this thread can read back through it. i would say i've been quite polite considering the abuse heaped on me. (although i have no ego, so it mostly rolls off me(i AM 400 pounds HAHAHA!). ridicule and derision is a conversation manipulation tactic. hard science i like. the sheer hatred and name calling i don't understand)

Originally posted by Bangin

This may be a difficult operation to prove, but that doesn't mean something isn't happening. My eyes and experiences tell their own story. With a little help from NASA and USAF, I'm convinced this is an operation that WILL take place, if not already. Why it seems out of grasp, for some, is beyond me.

BB: a little suspicious, yeah? experts at everything but common sense, some of these guys.

I will walk away from this thread with mixed feelings. One of those feelings will be of a sore throat due to attempts made by some to shove their beliefs down it.

BB: not me i hope.

I will also feel unsettled because I believe something foul is going on in our skies. Lastly, I will walk away feeling rich due to the posts that MY thread has generated. Thank you all for your responses!

thank you for the artful title of this thread. it really brought some stuff out of the woodwork, didn't it?

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
I assure you we are not the same guy...I was just ribbing you a bit, as I saw how ape# you went when HR called you that....

Yeah, sure. Rib at something else.

Oh come on, have a sense of humor!!!!

AR has never seen a mirror, obviously. GREAT joke by our resident funny guy. the good humour man, i like to call him.

Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
I would love to be proven wrong, however, I don't believe there is any conspiracy here, (in the chemtrail issue) so I don't believe I ever will be.

Eh, why would you love to be proven wrong? That doesn't make any sense?!

I believe something is being sprayed in the air, so I would love to be proven wrong. It makes sense when I say it because I believe harm is being done.

Because it would mean that someone on the "chemmie" side was actually DOING something, other than spouting rhetoric and pointing to other chemtrail sites as proof. That's all I ask for is some concrete, verifyable proof.

Dexxy,

O.K. lets just crunch a few numbers, shall we. Let�s say that we have a typical township of 36 square miles. Let�s say that the township receives 1 inch of rain. That means that at one time there was at least that much water droplets in the form of cloud cover over the township. If we do the math and convert it to metric measurements, we come up with 2,368,285,128 liters of water. Since a liter of is one kilogram, then we have 2.36 E+12 grams of water. Since it takes one calorie to raise the temperature of water by 1 degree C, then it would take 2.36 E+12 calories to raise the temperature of this rain cloud 1 degree C. This equals 9913188282000 joules. If it takes one hour to heat up the water, then it will take 2753.66 megawatts of energy to do so.

But, remember this is the energy that is directly applied to the water itself. If you are using your RF energy to heat up suspended aluminum particles, then you have to figure out what fraction of the RF energy will be absorbed by the particles and converted to heat. You also have to figure out how much of the energy will be lost to heating up air molecules and not your water droplets. You have to figure out just how quickly and efficiently the water will be heated by the aluminum. And finally you have to figure out how fast the water droplets will transfer the heat back to the surrounding air.

All of these mean that you would have to generate significantly more than 2753.66 megawatts of power just to heat up the cloud.

I know this is not exactly where you were going, but it has been suggested in other forums that radar and HAARP are used to �dry up rain clouds and cause drought.�

If this is the case you also have to add in the additional energy required to convert liquid water to a vapor (the Latent Heat of vaporization).

Finally as a practical matter, what do you think happens to that moisture when you heat it and the surrounding air up? Yes, it will do what all hot air does, it will rise. And rising will cause it to expand and cool; as the vapor cools it will release that heat of vaporization back to the air, heating it up more. It will rise more, as it rises, moisture laden air moves in form the sides and underneath it to replace it.

Guess what? We just made a thunderhead! It has been estimated that the total power of a single thunderstorm is 10 E+15 joules. The U.S. annual power consumption is approximately 10 E +20 joules. link

So I ask you, is this practical?

Howard you want some deep stuff to chew on, then here you go man. The source is not as important as what is said (source was cassiopaea.org);

comments on HAARP;

Q: (L) Can I ask my other questions? Some people on the net want me to ask about this HAARP thing... seems to be some sort of antennae thing...
A: Disguise for something else.
Q: (L) What is that something else?
A: Project to apply EM wave theories to the transference of perimeters.
Q: (L) What does that mean?
A: If utilized as designed, will allow for controlled invisibility and easy movement between density levels on surface of planet as well as subterranially.
Q: (L) Who is in charge of building this thing?
A: More than one entity.
Q: (L) What groups?
A: INVELCO is one guise as well as UNICON and banking interest.
Q: (L) Who is in disguise as INVELCO and UNICON? Are they just dummy companies for cover?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Can you tell us if this is a human organization or aliens, or a combination?
A: Human at surface level.
Q: (L) Whose idea was this project?
A: Not applicable.
Q: (L) Is there more you can tell us about this?
A: It has nothing to do with weather or climate. These things are emanating from 4th density, as we have told you before.
Q: (L) Is this something like a Trans-Dimensional Atom Remolecularizer?
A: No.
Q: (L) Is is something like what you said about the whole South West going into 4th density?
A: No.
Q: (L) So, HAARP has nothing to do with the weather?
A: And also EM associated with same as reported.
Q: (L) So, when is this HAARP thing scheduled to go into operation?
A: Open.
Q: (L) Is it currently in operation?
A: Experimental.
Q: (L) How long have they been working on this thing?
A: Since the 1920s.
Q: (L) What?! The 1920s?
A: Yes.

stay tuned for more.

good work Howard, I know what you are up to, trying to figure out how much the people really know.

Originally posted by billybob
so, once again, you show us your excellent reason and infallible logic.

Thank you!

if the job of a scientists is not to PROVE something to be true, but rather to do his best to DISPROVE it then how come you're not calling me a scientist? i'm doing my best to disprove your contrail theory(and purely for the pursuit of truth, too!).

Ahh, but there is a great difference. Scientisits use logic, reasoning, math, and yes, SCIENCE to do their disproving. They don't just rattle on about stuff they saw one day on the internet.

And there is another difference: They quite when it is obvious that they are beaten.

i'd really love to be wrong, but like i say, my memory keeps nagging me. things up there just look different now.

Yes, but as I keep pointing out, YOUR memory is, by nature, subjective, and therefore is not valid scientific evidence. If you want to prove that your memories are correct, then you'll need to show us some physical, tangible, proof. Can you do that?

Besides, what exactly do you remember? If you are saying that you remember fewer contrails that were tinner and shorter, and didn't last as long, then I don't think I'd argue with that! You've already been given the reasons. Why are you STILL ignoring them?





i'm going to help you. if you can convince me, you can probably convince anyone. the best argument i've heard so far, is a different kind of jet engine that is more common now. perhap's the fuel mixture has changed within the last five to ten years, as well?

i really just want to know what i'm seeing is normal, and not only have you guys not convinced me, you've made me more suspicious with your tactics, vehemence, vitriol and sheer persistance, AND the fact that you two(howard, stuart) just showed up to 'debunk' this particular thread. it seems VERY important that you make anyone who thinks jet exhaust my not be as healthy as wheat grass, is an unreasoning kook. if we are all just nuts, why do you care so much?

p.s. i don't think farmers test their food for barium and aluminum. i think they just pick it and sell it. mmmm, good. one of my theories is that 'they' want us to ingest it(barium) so that 3D imaging tech(via HAARP and satellite tech) can be used to locate everybody, anywhere, anytime. scary thought, that one! kooky, yeah?
the aluminum is reported by some to be a common non-toxic inert silicate(very fine sand, basically), which would only cause respiratory problems due to the small (seven to ten microns) size(culling the old and infirm?, while reducing global warming(reflection)? or ...blocking out consciousness raising higher vibrations from the alleged photon belt?(this is out there, i know, but i have no problem saying, 'i don't know' what the hell is going on. the cause and effect of the war on terror proves to me that something is going on, though).

Originally posted by THENEO
Howard you want some deep stuff to chew on, then here you go man. The source is not as important as what is said (source was cassiopaea.org);

comments on HAARP;

I thought you said DEEP stuff...you meant FUNNY stuff!!!!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!