Hell is a pointless concept

*zaps in*
"The Bible Hell"
Link:
hellbusters.8m.com...
This is from J.W. Hanson, done in 1888.
*zaps out*


regards
seekerof

A couple of questions for those who believe in an literal "hell'...

Do you believe God is omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite?

Do you believe that God knows all that has, is, will happen?

I believe there is more evil the world than there is good

so therefore i believe there is no such thing as god in any form.

I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride.

got one question, are you guyswho believe hell exists saying if youre not christian then you go to hell? like even a village in a remote jungle who never heard of christ or anything who worship the moon or nature or whatever? or someone with a mental imparement who cant understand the idea of god or anything related?

I was waiting for that old sawhorse of an argument to appear

1) God accepts you on your actions based on the knowledge of the gospel that you have. A mentally impaired person may have a very good concept of God, and may live within that knowledge and by that knowledge - Downs syndrome people are very "spiritual" sometimes.

2) same occurs for Ug in the jungle.

3) All those who died before 1AD were told about the Gospel, by jesus, after he died on the cross - in the bible. Therefore for those who beleived (and who wouldn't) they are in heaven. Hell at that place being a holding pen, which it still is really.

4) hell is a place of dimensionality. (my teaching, not explicitly biblical) the darker, or more polluted your spirit the worse the place you go, or decend, to.

This sliding scale of hell encompasses the Greek hell, of a dark grey place without anything, a holding pen, at the top, to the torment and pain at the very bottom. People will go to the place based on their lives works. To rise out of that place, to go to heaven, requires a spiritual shift that only occurs though believing in Christ. Again the same sliding scale works the other way, less spiritual to most spiritual.

There is only one heaven, but a variety of hells.

Originally posted by namehere
got one question, are you guyswho believe hell exists saying if youre not christian then you go to hell? like even a village in a remote jungle who never heard of christ or anything who worship the moon or nature or whatever? or someone with a mental imparement who cant understand the idea of god or anything related?

Originally posted by jezebel
A couple of questions for those who believe in an literal "hell'...

Do you believe God is omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite?

Do you believe that God knows all that has, is, will happen?

Well? Do you?

Following God is not about "avoiding hell". Religions have just used that threat as a means to get people to support them. God doesn't need to threaten his creations to have them worship him.
The problem is that once you start worrying about hell, you start following God for yourself and not purely for Him. You become selfish with your love and veering off course.
There was a thread here once which was entitled "Why do you worship God?". Once you can answer that question, you will see that it doesn't really matter if there is a hell or not.

Jez, if He weren't those things, how could He have taken John in the spirit to see the future? For that matter, how could he have allowed any prophet to know the future?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Jez, if He weren't those things, how could He have taken John in the spirit to see the future? For that matter, how could he have allowed any prophet to know the future?

Okay, so if God is all those things,

1. Wouldn't God have to have known, BEFORE making them, that Adam & Eve would eat the fruit and cause the fall of mankind? Doesn't that mean, since he knew the events to follow, that God intended to send most of mankind to a place of torture and pain?

2. If God knows all things, wouldn't God know who would and who would not believe in him? Would this not mean that some people were predestined to go to hell? How can it be our choice to believe in God, if God already knows who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

3. If God is infinite, meaning to envelop and surpass all things, how could he make a "hell" that was separate from him? Wouldn't "hell" have to be contained within God, since by definition, nothing can exist outside of the infinite?

Originally posted by jezebel

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Jez, if He weren't those things, how could He have taken John in the spirit to see the future? For that matter, how could he have allowed any prophet to know the future?

Okay, so if God is all those things,

1. Wouldn't God have to have known, BEFORE making them, that Adam & Eve would eat the fruit and cause the fall of mankind? Doesn't that mean, since he knew the events to follow, that God intended to send most of mankind to a place of torture and pain?

2. If God knows all things, wouldn't God know who would and who would not believe in him? Would this not mean that some people were predestined to go to hell? How can it be our choice to believe in God, if God already knows who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

3. If God is infinite, meaning to envelop and surpass all things, how could he make a "hell" that was separate from him? Wouldn't "hell" have to be contained within God, since by definition, nothing can exist outside of the infinite?

The answer to one is yes. But we chose this believe it or not and it is in the long run to our benefit.

The second question is likely yes also but not sure. We are supposed to be in a free-will universe but since the lizards for example interfere with our freewill then are we? Note we interfere with plants and animals freewill so there you go. The real issue is what is the benefit or cost of being of one orientation or the other.

Well Hell if it is what we think it is is part of all that exists but I think it is a place where god rarely goes and gave up dominion to it.

Good questions

Quote from jezebel:
1. Wouldn't God have to have known, BEFORE making them, that Adam & Eve would eat the fruit and cause the fall of mankind? Doesn't that mean, since he knew the events to follow, that God intended to send most of mankind to a place of torture and pain?

Quote from theneo:
The answer to one is yes. But we chose this believe it or not and it is in the long run to our benefit

How could we choose it, if God already planned it? How is it a benefit to those condemned to hell?

Quote from jezebel:
2. If God knows all things, wouldn't God know who would and who would not believe in him? Would this not mean that some people were predestined to go to hell? How can it be our choice to believe in God, if God already knows who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

Quote from theneo:
The second question is likely yes also but not sure. We are supposed to be in a free-will universe but since the lizards for example interfere with our freewill then are we? Note we interfere with plants and animals freewill so there you go. The real issue is what is the benefit or cost of being of one orientation or the other.

Wouldn't free-will then, just be an illusion? An idea conceived so that people could feel like they have some kind of control over life?

Quote from jezebel:
3. If God is infinite, meaning to envelop and surpass all things, how could he make a "hell" that was separate from him? Wouldn't "hell" have to be contained within God, since by definition, nothing can exist outside of the infinite?

Quote from theneo:
Well Hell if it is what we think it is is part of all that exists but I think it is a place where god rarely goes and gave up dominion to it.

How could God give up dominion over part of himself, or "rarely go" to a place that is contained within him?

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by jezebel]

hell is earth, if your not "good"(ready) u will come back to hell, doomed to repeat yourself until u are "good enough"(ready) to evolve into next density, thus all "humans" go to hell, we're here already, the whole concept of heaven and hell was created so noone could escape from this slave world into the next one because to escape u must work on your soul and religion dictates beliefs to you and discourages the quest for truth. heaven and hell were created so people saw no reason to make things better they believe they will get to the better place just by being good.

Originally posted by banjoechef
hell is earth, if your not "good"(ready) u will come back to hell, doomed to repeat yourself until u are "good enough"(ready) to evolve into next density, thus all "humans" go to hell, we're here already, the whole concept of heaven and hell was created so noone could escape from this slave world into the next one because to escape u must work on your soul and religion dictates beliefs to you and discourages the quest for truth. heaven and hell were created so people saw no reason to make things better they believe they will get to the better place just by being good.

where are these ideas coming from? is this a theroy you have or are you basing this off of buddism somehow? and you dont need to get to the "better place" by being good, at least according to christians. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Originally posted by namehere
got one question, are you guyswho believe hell exists saying if youre not christian then you go to hell? like even a village in a remote jungle who never heard of christ or anything who worship the moon or nature or whatever? or someone with a mental imparement who cant understand the idea of god or anything related?

According to the majority of xians I've spoken with, that's correct.

Most Christians use the "passive punishment" argument to justify Hell. Passive punishment is putting your hand on the hot stove when you have been told not to. Since God told you, it should rid him of any blame, right? Wrong. Those of you with children, leave the stove on for a day and see how you feel when your child burns himself. God turned on the "stove" and created the consequence of sin. Here is an analogy I read on a site.

I run a daycare with lots of children. I have lit fireplaces and stoves around them. There are toys in the center. I tell them not to touch the fire. So when the police come and I use this argument, what do you think they will say? Kids aren't capable of avoiding such dangers and their injuries are still my fault.

I may not understand an "infinite" God but I know that it "is a sad day when we condone the abuse of one human being by another. It is also a sad day when we condone such abuse by our god."

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by maynardsthirdeye]

Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown

Originally posted by banjoechef
hell is earth, if your not "good"(ready) u will come back to hell, doomed to repeat yourself until u are "good enough"(ready) to evolve into next density, thus all "humans" go to hell, we're here already, the whole concept of heaven and hell was created so noone could escape from this slave world into the next one because to escape u must work on your soul and religion dictates beliefs to you and discourages the quest for truth. heaven and hell were created so people saw no reason to make things better they believe they will get to the better place just by being good.

where are these ideas coming from? is this a theroy you have or are you basing this off of buddism somehow? and you dont need to get to the "better place" by being good, at least according to christians. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

It's not an outrageous theory. In fact, I believe it's very close to some of the Gnostic Christian belief that was prevalent before the Inquisition.
It was believed that Earthly existence was hell and that people were kept on Earth by thier own weakness and ignorance.

The Bogamils were one of the groups who believed that release could only be gained by achieving perfection of the soul. One of their descended groups were the Cathars - a group supposedly tied in with the Knights Templar. They held beliefs which have a lot in common with ancient Greek philosophy, Zorastrianism and Dionysianism.

[Edited on 26-11-2003 by Leveller]

something i heard lastnight that got me thinking, my mom was telling me about a friend who was in a coma for years(where she was aware of everything the whole time) and she saw 9ft tall hooded black things with red eyes wandering through the halls and when some people died they took their souls n their souls were screaming when they did...

kinda scary to hear but got me wondering about if hell does exist, thought i'd bring that up to see what you all think.

I think Hell is nothing but a state of torment in the mind.
Gods word, and faith cleared man from this state of torment, In essence God is but a state of Mind.
Deep

Anyone care to respond to my post?