Hell is a pointless concept

This is a civilized bashing of the idea known as "hell" to Christians and many others. These opinions are some of the original reasons I abandoned christianity.

If hell were an actual place, created by God, that the majority of us humans in history would be going to, what would its real purpose be? Let's give some options pretending for a moment that we are God.
Should I:
Play a big confusing trick on the entire human race by not providing any real tangible evidence of myself, even though I gave humans wonderful logical minds (except for some), and then punish the ones who fell for this trick (the majority) by sending them to an eternal place of suffering while rewarding others who hardly even thought for themselves in the becoming of christians with eternal bliss and happiness, while, through in through, I designed humans to be diverse and they are all hypocrites in some way or another.

Orrr, should I:
Make a world full of rich experience, good and bad, but in the end resort to pure love and happiness for all my beautiful creations to join me for eternal bliss in heaven, forgiving them ultimately even for not believeing in me (I did give them inquisitive logical minds, after all.)

Placed with these choices, you as God, what would you do?
I do not understand how a God that is supposed to be infinitely more forgiving and just than we are could choose the first option, making him seem like some big annoying unfair trickster.

Everything I say here is not against God. It is against the hell. Anyone who believes in hell out there, consider this, and consider what's more to come on my inquisitive posts to the ending of these world religions that separate the human race and do not unite it.

thats kinda how i think of it too, nice one

The whole concept of a 'hell' is a scare story to keep people in line. The concept of 'if you don't praise God and donate to the church then you'll end up being tortured for all eternity' is incredible. People will base there whole life beleifs on these fairy tales from an ancient book that could have been writen by anyone. I would love to be proved wrong with some kind o evidence that supports the bible etc. but there is noone.

Originally posted by earthtone
The whole concept of a 'hell' is a scare story to keep people in line. The concept of 'if you don't praise God and donate to the church then you'll end up being tortured for all eternity' is incredible. People will base there whole life beleifs on these fairy tales from an ancient book that could have been writen by anyone. I would love to be proved wrong with some kind o evidence that supports the bible etc. but there is noone.

To keep people in line and to make them pay for confessions and other various sacrements. Scares them into following the group. Give the church your last penny, thats what they wanted then and now. People still believe in a god because there are things we cannot understand, leaving questions we cannot answer. Basically, I cant prove there is a god, but you cant prove that there isnt. So do what I tell you, give me your money, and it will all be good either way..........youll be covered.

Good debate, sorta thrashed to death here though

1 Hell was not created by God as a place for people, BUT as a place for satan et al.

2 What the heck do you think that Christianity / Judaism all about if not about avioding going to hell? Infact in some ways all 'major' religions cover the same ground, except that non christian ones seek to achieve heaven by works.

3 An inability on your part to believe the evidence of Hell does not constitute a problem on Gods part if He has shown you the truth and you reject it. Reject it all you like, but don't be suprised at your fate.

3 The road to heaven is narrow and the road to hell is wide. Why do people have such a searching inside of them if it was not God placed, to find the way to life.

4

Orrr, should I:
Make a world full of rich experience, good and bad, but in the end resort to pure love and happiness for all my beautiful creations to join me for eternal bliss in heaven, forgiving them ultimately even for not believeing in me (I did give them inquisitive logical minds, after all.)

Well that was the initial intention except we screwed it up in Act 1.
However what are you then but mindless automatoms (or Moonies) if you exist in bliss, where is your free will, your chance to deside if you actually want to be with God or not. Freewill dictates a choice, God is giving you one.

I do not understand how a God that is supposed to be infinitely more forgiving and just than we are could choose the first option, making him seem like some big annoying unfair trickster.

Everything I say here is not against God. It is against the hell. Anyone who believes in hell out there, consider this, and consider what's more to come on my inquisitive posts to the ending of these world religions that separate the human race and do not unite it.

How can you not understand God's love when he sent his son to die for you so that you DIDN"T have to experience hell?

What more does he have to do, you have to exercise your freewill and choice yourself. That is the meaning of life.

[Edited on 24-11-2003 by Netchicken]

Originally posted by Netchicken
Good debate, sorta thrashed to death here though

1 Hell was not created by God as a place for people, BUT as a place for satan et al.

2 What the heck do you think that Christianity / Judaism all about if not about avioding going to hell? Infact in some ways all 'major' religions cover the same ground, except that non christian ones seek to achieve heaven by works.

3 An inability on your part to believe the evidence of Hell does not constitute a problem on Gods part if He has shown you the truth and you reject it. Reject it all you like, but don't be suprised at your fate.

3 The road to heaven is narrow and the road to hell is wide. Why do people have such a searching inside of them if it was not God placed, to find the way to life.

4

Orrr, should I:
Make a world full of rich experience, good and bad, but in the end resort to pure love and happiness for all my beautiful creations to join me for eternal bliss in heaven, forgiving them ultimately even for not believeing in me (I did give them inquisitive logical minds, after all.)

Well that was the initial intention except we screwed it up in Act 1.
However what are you then but mindless automatoms (or Moonies) if you exist in bliss, where is your free will, your chance to deside if you actually want to be with God or not. Freewill dictates a choice, God is giving you one.

I do not understand how a God that is supposed to be infinitely more forgiving and just than we are could choose the first option, making him seem like some big annoying unfair trickster.

Everything I say here is not against God. It is against the hell. Anyone who believes in hell out there, consider this, and consider what's more to come on my inquisitive posts to the ending of these world religions that separate the human race and do not unite it.

How can you not understand God's love when he sent his son to die for you so that you DIDN"T have to experience hell?

What more does he have to do, you have to exercise your freewill and choice yourself. That is the meaning of life.

[Edited on 24-11-2003 by Netchicken]

I have a question for you. Find this answer for me and I may convert from my athiestic ways (if I spelled that right or if it was even a word). What, according to the bible, is the difference between an angel and a soul. Reference it as well.

Quote:
3 An inability on your part to believe the evidence of Hell does not constitute a problem on Gods part if He has shown you the truth and you reject it. Reject it all you like, but don't be suprised at your fate.

It actually does constitute a problem on his part because it shows that he has outfitted us with wonderful minds and then puts out a bunch of unreliable, shaky information that he just expects us to believe? Besides, inevitably he decides our choice to go to hell if he made us diverse, because all things have polarity, which can be blamed on him. Anyways, truth is a term that I do not believ a single person on Earth truly understands including me. So if he has shown us the "truth", including us naked natives running around in strange countries, and the truth looks and appears to be completely false and man made, he can be blamed for us rejecting it. He gave us the minds to!


Quote:
1 Hell was not created by God as a place for people, BUT as a place for satan et al.

Then why the heck do people go there? And if your saying that the devil puts people in hell and not God, then your are basically admitting that God is no true ruler but a dual ruler with Satan, and I don't think you believe that.

Quote:
However what are you then but mindless automatoms (or Moonies) if you exist in bliss, where is your free will, your chance to deside if you actually want to be with God or not.

This sounds a lot like what heaven is like once you get there. No more pain, suffering. These things define the good, and we would then all be the same. If you took all the bad parts out of humans, I am sure that they would cease to exist.

Quote:
How can you not understand God's love when he sent his son to die for you so that you DIDN"T have to experience hell?

Not everyone believes that Jesus was God's son, or even a God at all, and there is no evidence to back it up. Miracles you say? Did you see them happen, do you also believe in Noah's Ark and Jonah insdie the whale. They are stories to help you believe. Whether he was a real person or not, it iws questionable and unlikely that he was God's son.

It actually does constitute a problem on his part because it shows that he has outfitted us with wonderful minds and then puts out a bunch of unreliable, shaky information that he just expects us to believe?

3 Yep you got it. To believe in the Bible initially takes a leap of faith. You have to approach it with an open mind. If you approach it from the angle of "This is BS what a pointless waste of time" then it will NEVER make sence.

Beleiving in God, is a walk of faith, He wants to walk with you, mould you and change you to be a better person. Life is not about "Take the red pill or the blue pill type of decisions" it about GROWING, maturing, and developing. The way to heaven is a walk, there is no express class.

If it was just a Yes/No decision then the purpose of living would be over relativly quickly, and probably could be undertaken though a simple qualification you could earn at High School. If you consider the type of people God wants in Heaven then you will see that the world is here to test and temper people to be like that.

1 People go there because they choose not to follow God. They use their freewill to make a choice to live apart from Him. The result is that after they die they go to a place that is "apart from Him".

Heck, people have their entire lives to open their eyes to the truth and go 'towards' Him, but the world is a battle ground for people's souls. God is not the only player in teh fireld but satan, who knows his fate, wants to take down as many of God's creations with him as he can.

Heaven is nothing like a place of mindless bliss, that is not a biblical concept at all but a mix of eastern religions. In fact in so many places Heaven is described as an 'active' place, "the New Jerusalem" speaks of a city, which implies citizens, which implies work.

Not everyone believes that Jesus was God's son, or even a God at all, and there is no evidence to back it up. Miracles you say? Did you see them happen, do you also believe in Noah's Ark and Jonah insdie the whale. They are stories to help you believe. Whether he was a real person or not, it iws questionable and unlikely that he was God's son.

Here is the kicker, the crux of your dilemma, where do you get your opinion here? It speaks of a lifetime of assimilating half truths, societal falacies, cultural fears and second hand information. For 2000 years people have tested the bible, both personally and archeologically, and found it sound - just check the other thread here. If this is so wrong, then why is it such a fast growing belief, why are people's lives changed, and why to people find the peace that you do not experience.

Many people know just enough about the Gospel to be inocculated against it, instead of having a true knowledge of it. That moving from one to the other is the mark of someone who TRUELY wants to know the truth.

If this is just an intellectual debate and you don't move towards learning more then we are wasting your time in this thread. The walk with God starts with YOU taking the first step.

The way it was put to me:

" the religions of the desert, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, all believe in a hell of eternal flame and fire. And what is a nightmare to the people of the desert? Heat. Travelling without water, sunburn, you name it, anything to do with heat or fire. The religions of that region had to have some kind of punishments that the people could identify with."

" On the other hand, tell an Eskimo that if he leads a bad life, he will end up in flame for eternity. He'll probably walk up and kiss you."


Does this make sense?

No,

But its a comfortable way to fob off the issue and the fear it engenders.

[Edited on 24-11-2003 by Netchicken]

If I wasn't approaching the Bible with an open mind why the heck would I be questioning it?

But besides the point, I want to bring up something else.
The concept of free will, but I'm going to start a new thread for that.

Originally posted by Raph
If I wasn't approaching the Bible with an open mind why the heck would I be questioning it?

But besides the point, I want to bring up something else.
The concept of free will, but I'm going to start a new thread for that.

You are questioning it because you are trying to shoe horn the contents into your belief structure without actually taking it from first principles to start with.

The real question you need to ask is "Why do I even ask the question of 'what is hell'" The mere fact that you are asking this question is because you are being pushed to find the answer, that's God at work. Which in itself is an answer to your first question, about God not helping you. The fact that you are here and asking is your answer.

The fact that you have stalled at the point you have in your search is because your intellect revolts at the concept and the possible answer you will find.

No one is happy with self knowledge that self anniliation as an outcome and future of their life. Hence the jump from one topic onto another "safer" topic without carrying on down the track you started. .

[Edited on 24-11-2003 by Netchicken]

If Hell is eternal, than is it not true that its only purpose is to inflict pain and not actually teach any lesson?

The concept of hell is totally illogical (no surprise there). What kind of God sends a person to eternal hell for the alleged sins of a finite life? If hell was non-existence, then it would at least be a step in a good direction.

The idea was put forward obviously to scare gullible individuals into submission. Christianity would be almost inexistant if it weren't for the suppression of dissent and the crusades.

I'm thinking that if there is an afterlife, everyone goes to the same place when they die. Besides something invented to keep people in line, Hell lets believers feel better about themselves. "Those bad people are going to hell and I'm going to heaven".

Again a couple more posters pushing half truths and confused thinking.

The purpose of Hell is not to inflict pain, that is just a byproduct of being in a place where God 'isn't'. Think of all the things you like about the world, remove them all and you have an approximation of hell.

Helioform, what Kind of God gives people eternal life for one action they undertake in a finite world.
What greater gift than that can there be? To live for 5 billion years from making one choice now.

Now if you DON"T make that choice then you are exercising your free will, you are choosing unde rhte knowledge of what will happen to you not to want it. Your intellect is rebelling against your heart, and winning. The outcome of your life is ENTIRELY in your hands and will.


[Edited on 24-11-2003 by Netchicken]

But do we really have a choice? Is free will really existant? It is like a man saying to his girlfriend:


"Do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me and not love me, I will track you down and blow your brains out.

Netchicken,

Your attitude is the very reason I despise..what I despise.

I was changing the subject because clearly this thread is veering away from what it started, "hell."

God is not "at work" here trying to bring me back to him I guarantee you that. I used to be a Christian, and my mass of trouble with that path has lead me I'm afraid forever away from it. I have come here to try to open up the eyes of what I believe to be closed minded Christians, denying many points of what they believe.

But I'm not here to just argue.

I wanted to say why I thought Hell was a ludicrous idea and gain approval.

maynardsthirdeye, you just made a perfect point.

Originally posted by Raph
Netchicken,

Your attitude is the very reason I despise..what I despise.

Your abusing me for answering your question?
Then why ask if you didn't want the answer. Or is your purpose in asking merely a retorical action in order to state your opinion yet not wanting to know the truth. Is your question merely an attempt to push your views without bringing them to scrutiny?

Does it upset you that somone can actually answer your questions and that the psychological walls you construct to avoid the truth are so easily demolished?

That leaves the ego feeling very defenceless, which leads to you attacking me instead of the subject.

I was changing the subject because clearly this thread is veering away from what it started, "hell."

No it wasn't you were the first post to change its direction.

God is not "at work" here trying to bring me back to him I guarantee you that.

Then by what right do you have to complain in your first post that God does not give you evidence that you need to avoid going to hell?

You just said that you won't accept the work that is being done initially, let alone in your own life.

What do you leave God with to do? He has done it all, it is you who has turned your back.


[Edited on 24-11-2003 by Netchicken]

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
But do we really have a choice? Is free will really existant? It is like a man saying to his girlfriend:


"Do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me and not love me, I will track you down and blow your brains out.

i disagree. i think that its more like a man saying to his gf "do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me and not love me, i wont save u from the ppl that have wanted to blow your brains out from the beginning of time"
just my opinion though