Saddam and the Kurds

Seeker: "Horse-blinders are a wonderful thing, aren't they? They help you to ignore the obvious and allow you to stay focused on your intended target....."

You have gall to say that, since you're the one with the blinders.

How many of the graves found in Iraq are directly attributable to either the Iran-Iraq war, or the 12 years of sanctions that killed over a million Iraqis (and didn't affect Saddam at all)?

In fact, back in 1996, when the number of Iraqi children killed off by sanctions stood at around half a million, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright made her now famous declaration to Lesley Stahl of CBS that "we [the US administration] think the price is worth it". It's worth 500,000 dead children to ensure Saddam is defanged.

Also in 1996, Denis Halliday, the UN coordinator for humanitarian relief in Iraq, quit in protest over the sanctions policy that causes "four to five thousand children to die unnecessarily every month due to the impact of sanctions". Spin that.

That's genocide, thanks to your State Department. GENOCIDE.


And to use the fact that Saddam allegedly massacred hundreds of thousands of his people as an excuse for the war is TOO LATE. This was sold to the world as a PRE-EMPTIVE ATTACK because they said Saddam had weapons primed and ready to launch. NOT because he's been a dictator for the past 30 years (for most of which he was getting US military and economic aid). Just check out that picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in 1982, it speaks volumes.

To ignore all the US/UK/UN complicity in the whole Iraq situation is to be wearing blinders.

It's all well and good to claim he was a tyrant, but he was a tyrant for 30 years and no US administration did anything about it OTHER THAN TO DO BUSINESS WITH HIM. And in all this "regime change" mumbo jumbo, what was the singlemost important thing they wanted to do? Get Saddam. So where is he?

Spin that.


jakomo

You said:
"It's all well and good to claim he was a tyrant, but he was a tyrant for 30 years and no US administration did anything about it OTHER THAN TO DO BUSINESS WITH HIM. And in all this "regime change" mumbo jumbo, what was the singlemost important thing they wanted to do? Get Saddam. So where is he?

Spin that. "


Yes....sadly.....your correct except that the US was the lowest to do business with Saddam!
Information on this is easily found on the internet........
Albreight was a democratic pawn under Clinton...nuff' said....

Your photo claim, is just that, a pperspective claim, seen threw your eyes....
As to the US being "fully" at fault for those "children deaths" becuase of the sanctions.....again "spun" assertions.......
Us may have partial blame...but hey Jak....lets not excluded Saddams hand in it.....quite abit of proof to found on the internet on this also....and the UN's hand in this......this too is also easily found.....

Next excuse you want to give for those victims of Saddam over his 45-50 year reign?
One million plus out of 22 million population.....
Spin that...........


regards
seekerof

Seeker: "Us may have partial blame...but hey Jak....lets not excluded Saddams hand in it.....quite abit of proof to found on the internet on this also....and the UN's hand in this......this too is also easily found.....

Next excuse you want to give for those victims of Saddam over his 45-50 year reign?
One million plus out of 22 million population.....
Spin that........... "

Okay, find me the document that says Saddam killed a million Iraqis. Does this count the 100,000 troops killed in the first Gulf War? All those soldiers killed in the Iran-Iraq war? Is it strictly "genocidal murders" or a total of all deaths in Iraq while Saddam was in power? Because it sounds like pure propaganda horsecrap to me.

Seems important to know the details when you throw out a number like that.

Just a few years later [after 1975], Iraqi-American relations reached their high point. As Ayotallah Khomenei�s Islamic Revolution took hold in Iran, the United States saw Teheran as its main adversary in the Middle East, as did Iraq. Consequently, with huge levels of American support�over $40 billion in weapons and technology through the 1980s, with many transactions �off book��Iraq fought against Iran for nearly a decade. In the latter stages of battle, eventually won by Iraq, U.S. officers provided intelligence and tactical advice to the Iraqis, all the while Baghdad was using chemical and biological weapons on the battlefield to suppress the Iranians. Once the war ended, Saddam killed many thousands of his own Kurdish population with chemical weapons. [Haljba]. Meanwhile, U.S. economic aid to Iraq increased.

hnn.us...

Saddam's repression was KNOWN for years, yet he continued to get supported by your country. Now suddenly he is evil and ALWAYS HAS BEEN EVIL.

Please explain how he goes from deserving United States military aid to deserving death. He deserved death right from the onset, but instead he got SUPPORT. After Halajba, that support INCREASED.

His country was FAR more capable of launching an attack against the US in the past too, not after 12 years of crippling sanctions.


jakomo

Jak........
Probably for the same reason that OBL goes from being funded by the CIA to being on the most wanted.

Btw....I thought we had agreed that they were somewhere in Bermuda sucking Mai Tai's or something courtesy of the good ole' CIA.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Oppss, thats right, there was no PNAC or "OIL" or NO President Bush, ETC!

No. But there was an actual threat. Iraq was no threat to us, period. I just get so sick and tired of people trying to justify killing. That's the only reason I brought this up. They never found any WMD, so then you hear all the people in favor of war screaming, "But he gassed his own people!" And the numbers seem to get as high as the time you're willing to spend looking for them. There have been mass graves in all wars. Iraq has been at war for how long now? Was there ever a time they weren't at war? Lucky thing we joined in, eh? Definitely a good decision. Everlasting war is good for business, and we all know you just can't get enough terrorists after you.

BTW, have you seen this? You might like it.

www.newsgaming.com...

[Edited on 11-21-2003 by Satyr]

originally posted by: Jakomo
Seeker: "Horse-blinders are a wonderful thing, aren't they? They help you to ignore the obvious and allow you to stay focused on your intended target....."

You have gall to say that, since you're the one with the blinders.

How many of the graves found in Iraq are directly attributable to either the Iran-Iraq war, or the 12 years of sanctions that killed over a million Iraqis (and didn't affect Saddam at all)?

In fact, back in 1996, when the number of Iraqi children killed off by sanctions stood at around half a million, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright made her now famous declaration to Lesley Stahl of CBS that "we [the US administration] think the price is worth it". It's worth 500,000 dead children to ensure Saddam is defanged.

Also in 1996, Denis Halliday, the UN coordinator for humanitarian relief in Iraq, quit in protest over the sanctions policy that causes "four to five thousand children to die unnecessarily every month due to the impact of sanctions". Spin that.

That's genocide, thanks to your State Department. GENOCIDE.


And to use the fact that Saddam allegedly massacred hundreds of thousands of his people as an excuse for the war is TOO LATE. This was sold to the world as a PRE-EMPTIVE ATTACK because they said Saddam had weapons primed and ready to launch. NOT because he's been a dictator for the past 30 years (for most of which he was getting US military and economic aid). Just check out that picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in 1982, it speaks volumes.

To ignore all the US/UK/UN complicity in the whole Iraq situation is to be wearing blinders.

It's all well and good to claim he was a tyrant, but he was a tyrant for 30 years and no US administration did anything about it OTHER THAN TO DO BUSINESS WITH HIM. And in all this "regime change" mumbo jumbo, what was the singlemost important thing they wanted to do? Get Saddam. So where is he?

Spin that.


jakomo

3.23.2022

I believe the first female Secretary of State, Madeline Albright, died today.

Sounds like her departure assists with draining the swamp: twitter.com...