And Evolution is OUT of the Picture!

>>terrestrial species are designed by God

Which god?

This is stupid for lack of a better word to argue over religion and evolution. They have two different goals, evolution is based on the scientific method to discover why things are the way they are; religion is based on faith to help us deal with life.

They have seperate goals but God willing maybe they will both lead us to the same truth

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jrod]

claps

wonderfully said, jrod. Simple and to the point, heh.

As it happens yes I have read the origin of species and read the bible. both have a few merits and both ask for a giant leap of faith to believe either. just logic dictates that evolution is impossible, whether UV gamma alpha beta radiation etc can metamorphise bacterium it dosent explain changes form one species to another. cats can have babies for hundreds of millenia but i think at the end they will still be cats.

Originally posted by jozuph

Originally posted by Helioform

Originally posted by jozuph

Originally posted by Helioform

Originally posted by jozuph
a buckyball is much smaller then a dna string, and when i say much i mean muchhhh, do u also have some serious litt about it ??

Fullerene molecules have a diameter similar to that of the DNA double helix.

before u claimed : 60 carbon atoms (the famous "buckyball] now go and count the amount of carbon atoms in dna, dna contains carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and phospor. The dna in a single cell may be composed of billions of atoms. These are arranged in a complex chain with four small nucleic acids (adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine) in carefully arranged ordered pairs. Does this look like a bucky ball like molecule ???
The deoxyribose sugar of the DNA backbone has 5 carbons and 3 oxygens per base, our chromosome consist of euhh coded around 45 million bases, while the whole geome is around 3 billion bases...wich is containt in 23 pairs of chromosomes..mmm size aint shyt right...
three billion times 5, ....... aint 60 right ?
[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

DNA helix diameter is around 2 nanometers, a buckyball is around 1 nanometer. It's similar enough to be considered as a quantum object.

again, iam not talking nonsence here, how can 15 billion carbon atoms alone [not even concidering the other atoms] resemble the size of a 60 carbon buckyball ?? i mean it might be possible that uve mistaken something but even a 5 carbon and 3 oxygens atom is not much smaller then 60 carbons [not sure bout this :]..but still there is no cell that contains only one mol of dna..none..i aint even counting the attached bases wich size we also should not forget :]]..again i beg u, show me some serious data aka litterature bout this...not just what u think :]]

a buckyball is indeed around one nanometer, one molecule of dna is +/- 2.5 nanometers wide, calculate that for our whole geome..
The smallest genome known, Mycoplasma genitalium, contains 580,000-units DNA .. i beg again for some litt on this..

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by Zzub
I'm sorry, but one fake skull and a made up story will not change the fact that evolution not only exists, but is the only logical explanation.

Evolution still makes more sense.

$0.02

I agree 100%. It still makes a hell of alot more sense than an old book full of fairy tales, and a "big man in the sky".

Evolution is quite evident in many animal species. Why would we be any different?

[Edited on 11-19-2003 by Satyr]

For once Satyr, Zzub and myself agree on something.

Originally posted by jrod
This is stupid for lack of a better word to argue over religion and evolution. They have two different goals, evolution is based on the scientific method to discover why things are the way they are; religion is based on faith to help us deal with life.

They have seperate goals but God willing maybe they will both lead us to the same truth

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jrod]

hihi faith, or facts..thats the question...i go for the facts, maybe yall religious go and read some of the postings in the gay topic....

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

hihi faith, or facts..thats the question...i go for the facts, maybe yall religious go and read some of the postings in the gay topic....

very well put as a coherent arguement... unfortunately the facts are just not there or there would be no arguement. and if there was any relevance in finding the origin of species in the gay topic I would certainly go and look. seems its back to Im right , your wrong, I can see your theories wrong but cant see anything wrong with mine. but as it happens I am in neither camp. both theories have merits and both have a lot of flaws and neither has one iota of proof. so all you can do is read both version of events apply logic and make your own mind up

omg. i think it should all be left alone. scientists shouldnt go around proving this or that they should just find cures for diseases thats all they should do. i mean trying to find if we evolved or not is unfair to certain religions but now there is no link to us and monkeys they are #ED lol good i say. i agree with what someone else said. were related from aliens.

Sorry dude, but the piltown man hoax was revealled 20 years ago. This is old, old news. Fortunately, lots and lots of real transitional hominid fossils have been found. Piltown man is only a historical footnote.

Originally posted by kurtcobainuk
omg. i think it should all be left alone. scientists shouldnt go around proving this or that they should just find cures for diseases thats all they should do. i mean trying to find if we evolved or not is unfair to certain religions but now there is no link to us and monkeys they are #ED lol good i say. i agree with what someone else said. were related from aliens.

What a pussy. We shouldn't use science because its unfair to religions? It's so goddamn unfair that we try to learn about the universe isn't it? If it was up to idiots like you we'd still be chucking spears. If you think that is all evolution has going for it you know NOTHING about it.
Maybe it would be best if you would just go back and get high like your idol Kurt Cocaine.

BTW, there's a Christian who is an ex-creationist that argues for evolution and against a global flood at this forum. (grmorton)

Originally posted by Ozzie

hihi faith, or facts..thats the question...i go for the facts, maybe yall religious go and read some of the postings in the gay topic....

very well put as a coherent arguement... unfortunately the facts are just not there or there would be no arguement. and if there was any relevance in finding the origin of species in the gay topic I would certainly go and look. seems its back to Im right , your wrong, I can see your theories wrong but cant see anything wrong with mine. but as it happens I am in neither camp. both theories have merits and both have a lot of flaws and neither has one iota of proof. so all you can do is read both version of events apply logic and make your own mind up

uhm well nice man, show me some facts from the other side plz...deny ignorance right...some people maybe should read better, or just read more and not only the bible L:] where were u right and iam wrong ? I did not really read a theory by u, neither by me..i said evo is not bout changing from one species to the other..now u say i did say soo, weird he..read and then talk plz. i see some things at one site [evo] that look logical, can be proven and actually if u check the litt u can find loads of evidence for evolution, on the other site i cant find anything..again iam not saying go is not true, i just dont see anyting confirming this. Evolution on the other hand sounds logical and there is some [if not a lott] evidence..sorry to say but i believe everybody who doesnt believe there is evolution [not talking bout the origins of life or where we came from] is a fool cause we [euh] can show there is..so maybe read your origins of life again [and my comments also

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]

Originally posted by kurtcobainuk
omg. i think it should all be left alone. scientists shouldnt go around proving this or that they should just find cures for diseases thats all they should do. i mean trying to find if we evolved or not is unfair to certain religions but now there is no link to us and monkeys they are #ED lol good i say. i agree with what someone else said. were related from aliens.

This is nonsense and against the way science works. Science is about finding out how the world works and not about disproving or competing with religion.

Originally posted by kurtcobainuk
omg. i think it should all be left alone. scientists shouldnt go around proving this or that they should just find cures for diseases thats all they should do. i mean trying to find if we evolved or not is unfair to certain religions but now there is no link to us and monkeys they are frocked lol good i say. i agree with what someone else said. were related from aliens.

very much so true. why go about trying to figuire out the creator, as i have decided for myself it doesn't matter for now and that will be for me to worry about in afterlife (oh the joys of procrastination)

its not a case of siding with one or the other, I just mentioned that I have read both books, used logic and came to the conclusion that neither are right. I believe still, if a theory is to present itself as viable it needs proof. Its all very well in the origin of species saying this evolved from that but where is the proof, it has never been found. which leaves one conclusion, if it aint those two options there must be another.

Originally posted by outsidethemilkglass

Originally posted by kurtcobainuk
omg. i think it should all be left alone. scientists shouldnt go around proving this or that they should just find cures for diseases thats all they should do. i mean trying to find if we evolved or not is unfair to certain religions but now there is no link to us and monkeys they are frocked lol good i say. i agree with what someone else said. were related from aliens.

very much so true. why go about trying to figuire out the creator, as i have decided for myself it doesn't matter for now and that will be for me to worry about in afterlife (oh the joys of procrastination)

In other words you don't care how we really came about you just want to believe what makes you feel good.

Originally posted by Ozzie
its not a case of siding with one or the other, I just mentioned that I have read both books, used logic and came to the conclusion that neither are right. I believe still, if a theory is to present itself as viable it needs proof. Its all very well in the origin of species saying this evolved from that but where is the proof, it has never been found. which leaves one conclusion, if it aint those two options there must be another.

brilliant! exactly! thank you! somebody is speaking intelligently!!!!!!!! *raises hands and thanks aliens for somebody like this*

Originally posted by Ozzie
its not a case of siding with one or the other, I just mentioned that I have read both books, used logic and came to the conclusion that neither are right. I believe still, if a theory is to present itself as viable it needs proof. Its all very well in the origin of species saying this evolved from that but where is the proof, it has never been found. which leaves one conclusion, if it aint those two options there must be another.

damn i dont type # for nothing now do i ? like i said if u sequence genomes from different species, there are remarkable thing to find out. its even possible to track back the time when different species took different paths in nature, u can track em back to an common ancestor. This for me is proof enough of evolution..just one example, why do u think some birds carry increadible tale feathers ? To wave at god when he comes to take em ? no to be more attractive to the female..because being more atractive means more change to mate, more change to mate gives u a higher possibility to put your genes in the next generation, called evolution, thats how bigger and better species evolve..thats evolution, not that we come from aliens, or i dont even wanna go into the debate of us coming from apes..i just say, evolution [improvements that make u have a favour over others in puttin your genes in the next generation] are to be seen by everybody who openes his eyes..

Originally posted by outsidethemilkglass

Originally posted by Ozzie
its not a case of siding with one or the other, I just mentioned that I have read both books, used logic and came to the conclusion that neither are right. I believe still, if a theory is to present itself as viable it needs proof. Its all very well in the origin of species saying this evolved from that but where is the proof, it has never been found. which leaves one conclusion, if it aint those two options there must be another.

brilliant! exactly! thank you! somebody is speaking intelligently!!!!!!!! *raises hands and thanks aliens for somebody like this*

u really change your mind with every post dont u :], iam out, pzz

[Edited on 19-11-2003 by jozuph]