HAARP video... omg you MUST watch this!

This was an excellent documentary, thanks D4rk Kn1ght. I believe HAARP could manipulate weather.

i dont realy understand sience on that lvl so i dont understand why you guys are scared

there is something VERY wrong with the video linked in the OP post. it locked up my computer, lol

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Because he's trying to pawn himself off as having a doctorate in a relevant field.

I have never heard himself introduce himself as 'dr' but i suppose i might have missed that. Why he does not specify what sort of Dr he is when being introduced on talk shows always bothers me but i have always taken care not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

And, no, I don't consider homeopathy to be science.

Strike one....

I am also pretty much not into Atlantis, fairies in the garden, orgone or the blue crystals giving you good luck.

Well we know that Atlantis has a basis in reality even if your not going to go back any further than the demise of the Minoan civilization
Orgone was real then and still is now even if it would be simply to call it vacuum energy and so forth.
Fairies i can't say i have any opinion about but blue crystals will make you very lucky if you are absolutely convinced that it will even if it has nothing to do with the blue crystal.

No, what's "scary", if you can call it that, is that people are credulous enough to buy into the "HAARP lore" without question.

All i see is questions and i have heard anyone speak with the type of certain you want to imbue it with. Credulity is what popular propaganda depends on so it's strange when defenders of the sciences start throwing temper tantrums when others spread information in the same way they do without even the benefit of claiming that it's the 'consensus'.

There's not much in the way of truth in the book.

You would say that yes but it also shows that you have could not have read it. It IS well documented.

Even if you're not techically savvy, a bit of critical reading would lead you to many of the same conclusions.

I am pretty savvy and i have found ways to assure that i do not stray very far from beaten tracks. The reason people like you dislike these theories so much is not because there is no beaten track to follow but because you are on waiting at the toll booths on those four lane highways.

[quote[No, it's really long. Probably 4 maximum posts. If you really want it, I'll u2u it to you after I get back from vacation. Hint - go look up some of his "experts", I especially like his use of "Dr" Daniel Winter.

Feel free to post it here or do whatever as i am long past being intimidated by such small volumes of information. Once again misrepresenting your 'title' does not mean that what your saying is not accurate and a whole book can and should not be judged on these types of lies/misrepresentations/mistakes. I think those who dismiss so much information based on such grounds are in fact the people i should be watching.

Nope, sorry, there are lots of TV stations with way more ERP than HAARP. Looking in the FCC database, WSRE has about a 3GW ERP.

I was under the impression that the FCC does not allow anything that high but since that's on the FCC website, and it sure looks like 3000 KW ( 3 MW not GW) to me, i guess i can but point out that size is not everything even if it does draw attention. Without a way to transmit such energy over long distances a high ERP is not enough but with longitudinal waves and interferometry principles and practices we can and we do and then 3 MW is suddenly a whole damn lot any ways; why the Russians things their SURA haarp like 'research facility' requires 160 MW is obviously any one's guess.

They do "focus" their output, that is, they use a directional antenna array, although not of the same type as HAARP. Otherwise their ERP would be equivalent to their total output.[/quote

You should know better.

en.wikipedia.org...

When you see transmission towers in a group, that's a directional array.

Sure.

Pfft. No, it doesn't. Does the output of your local TV station "build up" in the downfield antenna footprint? Does your flashlight "build up" light in its "focus" the longer you hold it still?

Right and now you are pretending you have never heard of .

HAARP is a dirt-plain HF phased array. At least it is from the power amplifiers out to the antenna field.

But it's build according to the patents of Eastlund ( who i remember claiming to be a avid reader and student of Tesla ) who certainly had weather engineering and general weapons effects in mind?

You could buy the same stuff off the shelf and make one, if you had the money. The trick, if such you could call it, is in the exciter and the techniques of using the system.

The technology have been 'off the shelf' since the late eighteen hundreds so i agree with you here.

And, yes, I know you're a "Bearden-phile", so no doubt we'll be treated to a huge cut-and-paste session about scalar crap.

Scalar crap? I can see how people who pride them on their conventional thinking methods might not like Bearden but what do you have against Scalar waves ( or better called Longitudinal waves) and why do you think they do not exist?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

So scalar waves did not originate in Tom Bearden's imagination as you would like to pretend.

Lets see what you make with these hints and corrections before i spend any more energy exposing your misrepresentations.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX
I have never heard himself introduce himself as 'dr' but i suppose i might have missed that. Why he does not specify what sort of Dr he is when being introduced on talk shows always bothers me but i have always taken care not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Probably because he doesn't want to point out he's got an honorary doctorate in homeopathy.

And, no, I don't consider homeopathy to be science.

Strike one....

If you like. I don't much care. Homeopathy is a classic pseudoscience.

Well we know that Atlantis has a basis in reality even if your not going to go back any further than the demise of the Minoan civilization

Well, why not call any civilization in the period Atlantis? In that case you're right by definition. Or we can say it was a story probably told by Plato that was partially documented by Timaeus, in which case it could have been nothing more than a philosophical parable. Like the cave.

Orgone was real then and still is now even if it would be simply to call it vacuum energy and so forth.

Orgone has no characteristics identifiable with vacuum energy that I'm aware of. But again, if you want to simply tack the word "orgone" onto it, then you are correct by definition. I could also call vacuum energy "dental floss" with the same degree of accuracy by doing the same.

All i see is questions and i have heard anyone speak with the type of certain you want to imbue it with. Credulity is what popular propaganda depends on so it's strange when defenders of the sciences start throwing temper tantrums when others spread information in the same way they do without even the benefit of claiming that it's the 'consensus'.

Wow, that one's convoluted, isn't it? I think Derrida would have trouble with it.

You would say that yes but it also shows that you have could not have read it. It IS well documented.

Well, no, it isn't, really. I suspect you didn't do much in the way of verification if you say so, even if the technical inaccuracies didn't get in the way, the fact that his "experts" are fairly questionable, his citations are often not accurate and he rings in "evidence" which is inapplicable. The connection of "Methods of producing nuclear sized explosions without radiation" and HAARP would be a wonderful example. It has nothing to do with HAARP, but Begich says it does. It's far from the only time he does this.

I am pretty savvy and i have found ways to assure that i do not stray very far from beaten tracks. The reason people like you dislike these theories so much is not because there is no beaten track to follow but because you are on waiting at the toll booths on those four lane highways.

No, people like me work on projects similar to this, and are a bit more informed.

Once again misrepresenting your 'title' does not mean that what your saying is not accurate and a whole book can and should not be judged on these types of lies/misrepresentations/mistakes. I think those who dismiss so much information based on such grounds are in fact the people i should be watching.

He represents "Dr" Daniel Winter as a physicist. He is not. He has a bachelors in psychology, and sold all sorts of new agey crap, including the blue crystals. Up until he found it convenient to flee the country.

I was under the impression that the FCC does not allow anything that high but since that's on the FCC website, and it sure looks like 3000 KW ( 3 MW not GW) to me, i guess i can but point out that size is not everything even if it does draw attention.

Whoops, my mistake. You're absolutely right, that's MW. I was in a hurry to get out of here, that's the sort of mistake I make. Good catch.

Without a way to transmit such energy over long distances a high ERP is not enough but with longitudinal waves and interferometry principles and practices we can and we do and then 3 MW is suddenly a whole damn lot any ways; why the Russians things their SURA haarp like 'research facility' requires 160 MW is obviously any one's guess.

But longitudinal waves don't exist, at least not for radio. I know, you are into Bearden, but there are lots of reasons not to agree with Tom that all EM is longitudinal. Not the least of which you can see when you look at HAARP's antennae - they're polarized.

Outside of Bearden, and people quoting him, the "scalar wave" stuff is awfully thin.

That's not to say that Tom isn't interesting to read.

They do "focus" their output, that is, they use a directional antenna array, although not of the same type as HAARP. Otherwise their ERP would be equivalent to their total output.

You should know better.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, "scalar waves" aside, what part of my statement was incorrect? HAARP is a directional array, if you have an isotropic radiator, the ERP is the total output.

Right and now you are pretending you have never heard of . [sic]

I see I'm not the only one who messes up when they're in a hurry.

No, I've heard of it, I don't believe it exists, and if it does, HAARP ain't it.

HAARP is a dirt-plain HF phased array. At least it is from the power amplifiers out to the antenna field.

But it's build according to the patents of Eastlund ( who i remember claiming to be a avid reader and student of Tesla ) who certainly had weather engineering and general weapons effects in mind?

That's a bit ambiguous, did you mean that Tesla had or Eastlund had these effects in mind?

Eastlund has a LOT of patents, many of which do not relate. Some of them are patents which Begich attributes incorrectly to HAARP. In general, HAARP doesn't have the needed power to do some of this, not within orders of magnitude.

However, when you hear it said Eastlund doesn't have any connection to the project at all, that's a bit disingenuous, which is all I'll say.

The technology have been 'off the shelf' since the late eighteen hundreds so i agree with you here.

Wow, I didn't know that people had digitally synthesized exciters for HF phased arrays in the late 1800's. Much less wideband HF finals like the ones used. I am amazed - I always thought of them as using spark gap stuff.

Why does everyone think any big transmitter has to be some Tesla creation? It boggles the mind.

Scalar crap? I can see how people who pride them on their conventional thinking methods might not like Bearden but what do you have against Scalar waves ( or better called Longitudinal waves) and why do you think they do not exist?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Longitudinal waves do exist - as compression waves in a medium, such as a sound wave. Which radio is not. EM are transverse waves. EM waves in plasma can be longitudinal, you can get the same trick in solid material where the plasmons are interacting in such a way to produce what looks like a longitudinal wave. You can launch a boundary wave that appears to be longitudinal. You can also set up what looks like a longitudinal wave in a waveguide.

But a propagating radio wave is transverse. Longitudinal waves in EM are a concept left over from aether.

So scalar waves did not originate in Tom Bearden's imagination as you would like to pretend.

I fear you are reading physics which are beyond you and trying to extrapolate one thing to another based on terms you see. Yes, there are scalar waves - which are compression waves in a material. Yes there is a thing called a scalar field - which is the sort of thing you get if you look at temperatures in a room - it's nondirectional hence scalar, as opposed to vector or tensor.

By the same method, one might see "phasors" in a EE text and conclude that one had proven that Star Trek was real.

Lets see what you make with these hints and corrections before i spend any more energy exposing your misrepresentations.

Pfft. Expose away - what's going to happen is that you may occasionally catch me in something like the MW/GW deal where I'm in a hurry and toss off a link. If I had been intentionally meaning to misrepresent it, I'd hardly have linked you to it.

But other than that, you're going to have quite a difficult time. I know it's going to be tough on you, but see if you can keep the cut-and-paste from Tom's website to a minimum. At least rephrase it in some way that shows you understand it. And try to see if you can apply it to HAARP, otherwise it's going to end up a me-vs-Bearden by proxy thing as a sort of Chewbacca defense tactic.

"Bearden says this. It has no relation to the topic - that's what's crazy. So if you can't refute every statement he makes, you're wrong. Bearden comes from Kashyyyk, not Endor"

PS - I'll usually put "scalar wave" in quotes where I'm speaking about the mythical freely propagating EM version of it. For the most part, I'll assume we're not going to be talking about sound waves in rubber or what not, though. So some sort of bizarre attempt at refutation by suddenly bringing in sound waves or plasma waves as proof of EM scalar waves is going to be met with a "pfft".

[edit on 18-6-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

THIS TECHNOLOGY S#CKS


yeah, we can alter states of minds, we can disrupt the total atmosphere, we can produce earthquakes,


YEAH, we can F#CK ourselves up that way.

It isn't allready hard enough the way it is allready!!!


those scientists, such a suckups, I tell you sumt'n..

we found out the knife, look how smooooooth it spreads butter on your breads, yeah, and I'll cut your balls with that! same with haarp.

they use the negative things of it and promote you the 'good' ones.


oh god, they're really playing stupid out here.

Think of our health people, and the state of our world, of our planet. They're playing tricky games!! Destroy the damned thing!

THEY'LL BURN THEIR FINGERS ON THIS ONE!


GWEN and HAARP, why do they wan't all that CONTROL over things and over people.... human interference in these kind of things is corrupt, disturbance!! this is a total shift of things.

WHY , why do they want to play god in here...

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
they use the negative things of it and promote you the 'good' ones.


oh god, they're really playing stupid out here.

Think of our health people, and the state of our world, of our planet. They're playing tricky games!! Destroy the damned thing!

THEY'LL BURN THEIR FINGERS ON THIS ONE!


GWEN and HAARP, why do they wan't all that CONTROL over things and over people.... human interference in these kind of things is corrupt, disturbance!! this is a total shift of things.

I'm sorry, I think you are looking for paranormal studies. That's two doors down on the right.

don't I have any intake on this one?

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
don't I have any intake on this one?

Sure, but generally in the science and technology sorts of forums, it's been my observation that the paranormal and religious people don't attend, and I myself stay out of the paranormal groups.

Mainly because it degenerates pretty quickly into mockery. I don't think the others see each other's views as having any point. Paranormal guys seem to feel it's ok in a sort of poetic-emotional-feely way to string together as many 'sciency' terms as needed to express their wonderment - I recall a poster who likes to put up things like "I took a photo of a quantum tachyonic energy wave frequency scalar temporal string-theory black hole vortex at the Hele Stone last week!" Science guys see that and cringe. The words mean real things, you don't get to toss them up like a salad.

I watched a recent "quantum theory is accurately represented by 'What the Bleep'" thread in the paranormal area, and it immediately degenerated into bitter acrimony when the science group moved in. Sadly, the science guys were right, the paranormal guys didn't understand enough science to recognize that they were wrong. The results weren't pretty.

IMHO the paranormal group people tend to use emotions for reasoning, and the science guys more logic. I bet you guys are better artists.

Tom Bedlam -- this whole place is based on extraordinary thoughts, theories and out-there beliefs & suggestions, not to mention -- questions of ATS Members.

Logic, education and personal knowledge, seems to me, does not rule. It's just another source of Member info. Sure like reading your stuff though.

Dallas

just a question about this, haven't you reached the essense of these terms which you've described to me?

just not to mention, what they're building up... RIGHT UNDER OUR NOSES, can be the end of this world.

Tom Bedlum writes:
"It does a lot of things, most of them pure research. Most of it's the research you see on the site.

They've declassified the ELF parts using the electrojet since that's no longer used by subs - no weather mods there - and they also partly declassified the electron precipitation function in 2005, if I recall the date. Mostly because they're moving that to satellites, I expect. That uses electron cyclotron resonance, but not to "heat up large areas of the ionosphere". No weather mods there either.

None of the other undocumented functions I know of are for doing weather modifications. From your first sentence, it seems that you are so focused on HAARP being Dr Evils weather device that if it is used for other functions, you think it is a failure. It couldn't be farther from the truth. The problem here is that you seem to be over focused on Eastlund's patents and you're not looking at the rest of the picture. Try thinking of it strictly as a device used to research the attainment of traditional strategic and tactical military goals instead of sci-fi disasters/wormholes/anti-UFO beams and you might get closer.

HAARP was never meant to be anything but a research station. The total power output even after the upgrades isn't anywhere near enough to do most of the effects in Eastlund's patent. In fact, the overall design was built for flexibility but it isn't optimal for some functions. There are, for example, specialized test facilities for forming plasma mirrors for OTH com-ms and radar that have been testing for some time now. HAARP can't do that to any extent due to various limitations, but some of the experimental data needed to design the other installation was gathered by HAARP.

If it were a tactical or strategic installation, you'd see a lot more security than it has, and you most likely wouldn't be getting guided tours."
________________

Hello Tom:

By your above thoughts, your writing disinformation again. Place one animal stall a few blocks from 300 animal zoo, and focus people toward the singualr stall with a meak animal taking up the space.

HAARP's a serious ombrey in microwave energy transmission. A serious ombrey in in EBE flight interuption. A weather change button, energy transmission and low level (ULF) data transmission & radar window core beyond the horizon. A weapon to control and mis-guide incoming missles and the like. Why continue fuzzing up HAARP as a dinky-toy. Most people here at ATS are not so dumb as to believe it's all there to capture weather patterns.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
Tom Bedlam -- this whole place is based on extraordinary thoughts, theories and out-there beliefs & suggestions, not to mention -- questions of ATS Members.

Logic, education and personal knowledge, seems to me, does not rule. It's just another source of Member info. Sure like reading your stuff though.

Dallas

Sure, it's built on the things you list. You're absolutely correct.

However, as I said, it's been my observation that the all-is-paranormal guys don't generally mix with the all-is-science guys, because they don't really ever see eye-to-eye.

For example, if we were discussing something like, say, a VINSON unit. I might be able to discuss with some relevance the way that the PRC-77/VINSON differs from a SINCGARS, how frequency hopping works, what CVSD is, how you load the day keys and maybe a funny anecdote about a guy selling a VINSON to the Russians and ending up with a job charming snakes.

But if in the middle of it, a paranormal sort of poster said with great conviction that it was causing the poles to shift by disrupting the energy flow of Gaia, I wouldn't know what to comment. It would be like those times when I was a kid and my uncle would whip "Because Jesus says it's wrong!" into a conversation, it's just sort of a face-into-the-bricks sort of conversation stopper.

Now, said poster might really think that's right, that fixed-bin, fixed-chiptime frequency hopping is the tool of Satan, and that the Goddess is being raped by the evil soul sucking emanations of the SINCGARS net. But I don't know how to relate to that, and most likely other than ignoring it, or trying to reason with them, I'm going to be sort of confused about what to say.

Empiricists and artistic types rarely mix with any success, and that's most likely why the forums are separate, and why the crossovers don't traditionally seem to work that well. From reading the threads where it's happened, it looks like it leads to abandonment by one side or the other, or acrimony.

Originally posted by Dallas
Hello Tom:

By your above thoughts, your writing disinformation again. Place one animal stall a few blocks from 300 animal zoo, and focus people toward the singualr stall with a meak animal taking up the space.

And we lead off with a very confusing statement. I can't make sense of it. Please give it another try? I rarely if ever write disinformation, perhaps you'll point it out specifically?

HAARP's a serious ombrey in microwave energy transmission.

Nope, the IRI can't transmit microwaves whatsoever. There are a couple of radars there but they're not part of what most people think of as "HAARP".

That would be "hombre".

A serious ombrey in in EBE flight interuption.

This would be one of those places where I just can't imagine how to respond.

A weather change button

Ah, so now it's just a button. As I remember the Simon Bar-Sinister weather machine, though, it was a knob you turned to "hail" or "tornado" and then you work this lever that looked like a tractor gear-shift back and forth while you do your soliloquy. On the other hand, it's been a long time since I watched Underdog so I might be mixing it up with Ming the Merciless's machine.

energy transmission

In the sense that all radio transmits energy, sure.

and low level (ULF) data transmission

Low level and low frequency are not directly related as your use of a parenthetic quote would seem to imply, although it's damned difficult to get any power into them so they often go together.

As I said in the quote, the IRI can be used to induce ELF and VLF but can't transmit it directly, at any rate, we've got VLF deployed all over now, and the Navy closed out their ELF a few years back.

& radar window core beyond the horizon.

That doesn't make any sense if taken literally, if you mean OTH radar using plasma mirrors, then HAARP doesn't have enough power to do a good job, but other installations that are optimized for it can.

A weapon to control and mis-guide incoming missles and the like.

No doubt by using mind-control on them.

Why continue fuzzing up HAARP as a dinky-toy. Most people here at ATS are not so dumb as to believe it's all there to capture weather patterns.

Dallas

I don't know that I've ever heard that it captures weather patterns. Thanks, I'll add that to the list.

Hey Tom, again thanks for the reply or shall I say mega-replies. Usually we get penalized for over quoting.

But seriously, don't knock Cdn ver of Eng spelling. We're in different Countries. Would appreciate you consider stopping the, what I feel is, disinformation re sensitive US GOVERNMENT projects.

Liked and respected your thoughts again, as usual. Just lacking a 'wee-bit' of meat Sir.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
Hey Tom, again thanks for the reply or shall I say mega-replies. Usually we get penalized for over quoting.

It's no difference from yours, wherein you quoted my entire post. I simply broke yours into topic segments. It makes it more clear that way what I'm replying to.

But seriously, don't knock Cdn ver of Eng spelling. We're in different Countries.

¿No te puedo entender?...it's a Spanish word. It's spelled hombre. There isn't really a different spelling in Canadian English such as colour for color.

Would appreciate you consider stopping the, what I feel is, disinformation re sensitive US GOVERNMENT projects.

Now, weren't you just whining about me saying something similar? It's not disinformation, sorry.

Liked and respected your thoughts again, as usual. Just lacking a 'wee-bit' of meat Sir.

Dallas

Which meat did it lack? The part where I agree with you that it's a death-beam to shoot down UFOs?

I find it interesting that several of you when you say something on the order of "It transmits microwaves", when I say something concise like "No, it really doesn't, you can look at the antenna structure and rule that out", they say "You didn't prove anything, you just said no it didn't". But if I toss out a wad of algebra and some basic antenna theory, it's a mega-reply.

You managed to accuse me of both in a single post. Interesting. I think maybe what you really mean to say is - "I'd like you to agree with me and add in some more 'HAARP lore'", but I'd have to be spreading disinformation to do so. In most cases anyway.

Hey Tom, after reading your reply above, seems obvious to me at least -- our differences were already discussed earlier for the points made. We should keep our eyes on the extraterrestrial aspect that you say is something you stay away from -- yes?

Dallas

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
¿No te puedo entender?...it's a Spanish word. It's spelled hombre. There isn't really a different spelling in Canadian English such as colour for color.

Ah. An international misunderstanding. See, I think the OP was saying "ombrey" which is of course the phonetic spelling for the Pig Latin version of "Brom", for Gerald Brom who is the famous gothic fantasy artist and illustrator.

Maybe.